Powder Trickler for Blackpowder?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Aim1

member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Messages
2,310
I just bought a powder trickler and scale so that I could weight my Blackhorn 209 blackpowder to precise measurements with grain weight instead of eyeballing it with a volume measure which not supposed to be as accurate as it changes when the powder settles.

Apparently the powder trickler was made for smokeless powder which has far smaller grains than blackpowder which is actually quite big. I found that the trickler barely put 1 or 2 grains out per turn which would take forever when you are attempting to measure out 100 grains.

So my 2 issues with the powder tricklers are:


1.) Made specifically for blackpowder so has larger opening for the larger blackpowder grains.


2.) Made to be anti-static so that an electric spark doesn't set off the blackpowder.

From what I've seen almost all of the powder tricklers are made for smokeless powder and have small openings. I researched online and didn't find anything about blackpowder specific tricklers which is strange.

**** Note, this is for deer hunting, do not need precise accuracy but accuracy out to about 200 yards.

This is the blackpowder trickler I bought that won't work.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AVUJ26C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
Last edited:
I just bought a powder trickler and scale so that I could weight my Blackhorn 209 blackpowder to precise measurements with grain weight instead of eyeballing it with a volume measure which not supposed to be as accurate as it changes when the powder settles.

Apparently the powder trickler was made for smokeless powder which has far smaller grains than blackpowder which is actually quite big. I found that the trickler barely put 1 or 2 grains out per turn which would take forever when you are attempting to measure out 100 grains.

So my 2 issues with the powder tricklers are:


1.) Made specifically for blackpowder so has larger opening for the larger blackpowder grains.


2.) Made to be anti-static so that an electric spark doesn't set off the blackpowder.

From what I've seen almost all of the powder tricklers are made for smokeless powder and have small openings. I researched online and didn't find anything about blackpowder specific tricklers which is strange.


This is the blackpowder trickler I bought that won't work.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AVUJ26C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Use a powder measure set to slightly less weight than you want ( a couple grains). Pour that powder into the scale pan. Put the pan on the scale then trickle the powder into the scale pan until you reach the desired weight.

SC45-70
 
I really don’t see any point in being that precise. Admittedly, I have close to zero experience with substitute black powders. However, the use of them as I understand it is close enough to regular black powder shouldn’t be drastically different.
When you play with smokeless powders and very small amounts can make a difference a trickier makes sense.
 
Apparently the powder trickler was made for smokeless powder which has far smaller grains than blackpowder which is actually quite big. I found that the trickler barely put 1 or 2 grains out per turn which would take forever when you are attempting to measure out 100 grains.
Use a powder measure set to slightly less weight than you want ( a couple grains). Pour that powder into the scale pan. Put the pan on the scale then trickle the powder into the scale pan until you reach the desired weight.
Aim1, the way SC45-70 explains (pour the large part of the powder into the scale pan, then use your trickler to slowly bring the charge up to the desired weight) is the way it's done, even with smokeless powders. Several of my smokeless powder rifle cartridges hold over 60 grains of powder. Trickling 60 grains of smokeless powder at two or three tenths of a grain per turn would take "forever" (as you put it) too.
But just out of curiosity, what are you loading that having a precise weight of black powder makes a difference?
 
Aim1, the way SC45-70 explains (pour the large part of the powder into the scale pan, then use your trickler to slowly bring the charge up to the desired weight) is the way it's done, even with smokeless powders. Several of my smokeless powder rifle cartridges hold over 60 grains of powder. Trickling 60 grains of smokeless powder at two or three tenths of a grain per turn would take "forever" (as you put it) too.
But just out of curiosity, what are you loading that having a precise weight of black powder makes a difference?


Blackhorn 209 grained powder.

Just read on another forum that doing it by sight via volume can lead to considerably different POIs and that using grains is a far better way to keep loads consistent.
 
Worth remembering “grains weight” doesn’t equal “grains volume” much, depending on what you are using. Weighing some substitutes could result in quite large over charges.

FFD3A6DF-5D8D-4E32-B7BA-1AFB5B6EC98B.jpeg
 
As far as consistency goes, using an auto trickler, you could scoop and dump almost all of the charge, then trickle in the last little bit.

That said a lot of 100 and 200 yard benchrest shooters win every weekend with volume thrown charges. Their group sizes are in the .1-.2” range, most often.
 
Worth remembering “grains weight” doesn’t equal “grains volume” much, depending on what you are using. Weighing some substitutes could result in quite large over charges.

View attachment 877482


Blackhorn 209 is a blackpowder substitute.


From their website:


Can I weigh my charges?

Yes. If you prefer to weigh charges, you can convert the volume load recommendations into weighed grains by multiplying the volume load by 0.7. Example: 100 units by volume x 0.7 = 70 grains by weight. 110 volume charge x 0.7 = 77 grains by weight.


So, I can see if you put 100 grains thinking it was the same as 100 volume you could really overload your charge.
 
As far as consistency goes, using an auto trickler, you could scoop and dump almost all of the charge, then trickle in the last little bit.

That said a lot of 100 and 200 yard benchrest shooters win every weekend with volume thrown charges. Their group sizes are in the .1-.2” range, most often.
One of the founding and long time members of the local rifle and pistol club was Ferris Pindell, co-developer of the .22 and 6mm PPC cartridge. Because of him the club had at least one registered bench shoot a year and I helped at several of them. I was amazed that among these seekers of ultra-accuracy not one shooter weighed the charge. They all used bulk measures.
 
Blackhorn 209 is a blackpowder substitute.


From their website:


Can I weigh my charges?

Yes. If you prefer to weigh charges, you can convert the volume load recommendations into weighed grains by multiplying the volume load by 0.7. Example: 100 units by volume x 0.7 = 70 grains by weight. 110 volume charge x 0.7 = 77 grains by weight.


So, I can see if you put 100 grains thinking it was the same as 100 volume you could really overload your charge.

Sounds like you have that covered and I didn’t intend to offend, I didn’t know that, until I did. :)

Toward your original question, I have made a plastic (UHMW) body trickler that will throw within two hundredths of a grain. For BP I would just scoop and dump an “under” charge vs using a measure.




That said, I might just meticulously weight a number of charges at a given distance and compare them with volume charges first. Just to see if there is a work vs reward relationship to be gained.
 
Sounds like you have that covered and I didn’t intend to offend, I didn’t know that, until I did. :)

Toward your original question, I have made a plastic (UHMW) body trickler that will throw within two hundredths of a grain. For BP I would just scoop and dump an “under” charge vs using a measure.




That said, I might just meticulously weight a number of charges at a given distance and compare them with volume charges first. Just to see if there is a work vs reward relationship to be gained.


Ha. I didn't take offense. Thanks for the help.

I definitely thought about doing what you last said.
 
For my BP stuff I have some “tuned” measures that are just cases trimmed to a length with copper wire soldered so I can dip from inside a can.

47214A2A-9DE3-4966-A18B-297ECB427412.jpeg

Doesn’t result into 6mm PPC group sizes but that’s not my expectation from them.
 
Complete waste of time with. Just my opinion.
With black powder or substitutes a large portion of the charge is smoke or soot. A few grains, + or -, let alone a few kernels of powder ain’t going to make much difference.
I’ve run enough black powder loads over a chronograph to arrive at that conclusion.
 
Complete waste of time with. Just my opinion.
With black powder or substitutes a large portion of the charge is smoke or soot. A few grains, + or -, let alone a few kernels of powder ain’t going to make much difference.
I’ve run enough black powder loads over a chronograph to arrive at that conclusion.


So do you do yours by volume?
 
I don’t think it’s a waste of time if you learn something from it. Meticulously weigh a test group and see if it makes any difference at all. If you can see some benefits then you can take the next step.

FWIW some benefit could be found even if it’s just mental. You don’t know until you try.
 
I did the volume vs weight and my standard deviation was double digits with volume and single digits with weight. Also my groups were a little tighter. May not make much/enough of a difference for the average shooter but for those that enjoy or require consistency i highly recommend it. Its also an excuse to "play" with our black powder trinkets. I was using Old eynsford 3f but also did it with homemade black powder.
 
I did the volume vs weight and my standard deviation was double digits with volume and single digits with weight. Also my groups were a little tighter. May not make much/enough of a difference for the average shooter but for those that enjoy or require consistency i highly recommend it. Its also an excuse to "play" with our black powder trinkets. I was using Old eynsford 3f but also did it with homemade black powder.


Not enough difference to matter for hunting?
 
About 15 years ago i experimented with weighed vs volume charges of Triple Seven and Pyrodex. After hundreds of rounds the difference between five shot weighed and volume groups at 100 yards was about .1 inch.

Hogs and deer never know the difference.
 
Not enough difference to matter for hunting?

I guess it would depend on the talent of the hunter and the size of the game. But also depends on distance, caliber, weather etc. Keep in mind that weighing a load may get you more or less grains by volume and the deviation can vary enough to make a heavy bullet drop or raise especially over longer diatances. With deer...i doubt it will matter since you may have some leeway on precision....on smaller game like rabbit etc...an inch or two off can mean a miss. It all depends on the hunter i guess...but i think weighing and controling deviation etc is more for target and long distance shooters. I got differences from a single ragged clover leaf with weighed powder loads to shots being an inch to inch and a half apart with volume measured loads...all shot from the same distance with same gun, same ball/bullet, same powder, same percussion cap...all same. I guess its all a matter of preference for the shooter...but for me personally i prefer to get the most precision out of my guns and powder.
 
Well to totally throw a monkey wrench into the mix: how many of you actually weigh the bullet/ball? Had a friend that was a certified sniper, that was OCD about his ammo, he weighed all his match grade bullets, that would deviate as much as 5 grains, he only allowed 2 grain deviation and would place bullets in marked groups of such. I have found even my finest cast bullets to deviate as much as 10 grains. For competition or long range I weigh and group the bullets in 2 grain increments.
 
Well to totally throw a monkey wrench into the mix: how many of you actually weigh the bullet/ball? Had a friend that was a certified sniper, that was OCD about his ammo, he weighed all his match grade bullets, that would deviate as much as 5 grains, he only allowed 2 grain deviation and would place bullets in marked groups of such. I have found even my finest cast bullets to deviate as much as 10 grains. For competition or long range I weigh and group the bullets in 2 grain increments.


That is interesting. Should weigh some of these.

20191211_204414.jpg
 
Sighting in for this past elk season, I used my CVA tubular brass flask to pour 85 gr. of Triple 7 into my Treso swing-funnel measure. I do have a very specific routine: Pour powder, and make sure to leave the appropriate "heap" on top; tap measure with the flask spout five times to settle the powder, then swing the funnel over and card off the tiny bit of excess; dump the charge down the barrel, hold the barrel just below the muzzle and rap the side of the barrel five times; load bullet (Hornady Great Plains this season). I made three rounds touch at 100 yards with a Williams peep sight doing the piloting. I shot my cow at 35. I've never seen an elk pile up quicker.

I've tried weighing my charges, but I truly believe a consistent loading procedure will pay more dividends and make range day more enjoyable.
 
I weigh my bullets but ive never really had them be much of a difference so long as they fill the entire mold and make a square cut at the sprue. I use pure lead only so i dont need to worry about differences in alloy weight. I personally weigh my charges but for the average shooter its probably not necessary. Maybe for the competition and long distance shooter is where i think weighing will benefit. Although i will admit using a flask and spout...if your routine isnt the same everytime then your powder pour wont be the same. I make paper cartridges hulls that are the exact same shape and size in every way but when i filled them with a flask and spout the cartridges showed obvious differences in sizes....such as tapping the sides of the flask or shaking the flask even just once extra to fill the spout more or even just pressing your index finger harder down on the spout opening causing your fingers flesh to take up powder space in the spout more so than the last pour. When i noticed a difference in size of my paper cartridges heights thats when i figured that not all pours from the flask are the same and the slightest change in technique will make your powder pour vary in size. When i started weighing my charges the sizes of my paper cartridges evened out and became very consistent. Although its a bit time consuming i really enjoy it. Its a labor of love so its not for everyone. I think that if any of us truly wants to know if theyll benefit they should try a comparison using their gun, ammo preference, and powder preference.... Some may see a difference with their combination and others may not notice a thing or see any benefit.
 
Few years ago my neighbor got into muzzleloading. Guy bought an Encore .50 caliber rifle and scoped it with nice Zeiss glass. Helped him get started.
Against my advice and the advice of others, he chose to use BH 209 powder despite some misfires and kapoofs. He took deer in 2018 and 2019.

This year he drew an elk permit. Spent days getting prepared. After putting the stalk on a 7x7 elk he had a kapoof and the elk was gone.

i have made some over 200 yard shots on hogs and deer. The longest was a hog at 226 yards. However, most of my shots are < 75 yards. Methinks the mark of a hunter is sneaking up and putting a round ball in the ear. :p

BTW: A proper slow twist round ball barrel puts balls in the same group regardless of variations in powder charge.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top