Finally found a Saturday night special (I was willing to pay for.)

The Taurus 85 is hardly a SNS. It's an all-steel, DA revolver with a swing-out cylinder. Its price point was not always that low; changing markets have led to this.

The term generally refers to such guns as Jennings, Raven, Cobra, and RG guns, those that were primarily made from alloys containing aluminum and zinc. These would be guns that would, in today's dollars, likely go for well under 100 of them, guns that went for $25-50 or so back when the term was coined.

You know... my brother had a Jennings .22LR automatic, TBH, it was pretty darned reliable. It did dump unburned powder on your arm, but it otherwise was not a bad pistol.

Funny story... this was back around 1986'ish or so. I was out riding my motorcycle on a Friday night, I had stuck the Jennings in my back pocket... just because. 4 punks in a Camaro were hotrodding around... tailgating me, revving the motor and such, acting the fool. We stopped at a light and they crowded as close to the rear of my bike as they could. I pulled that Jennings out of my back pocket, showed it to them in their headlight beam, and put it back in my pocket. When the light turned green, I went straight, they turned right... The Jennings is THAT formidable!

MedWheeler said:

The Taurus 85 is hardly a SNS. It's an all-steel, DA revolver with a swing-out cylinder. Its price point was not always that low; changing markets have led to this.

The term generally refers to such guns as Jennings, Raven, Cobra, and RG guns, those that were primarily made from alloys containing aluminum and zinc. These would be guns that would, in today's dollars, likely go for well under 100 of them, guns that went for $25-50 or so back when the term was coined.

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Must be a regional difference. I remember Saturday Night Special applied to the Spanish Revolvers imported back in the 60's. Don't really remember it applied to the ladies cigarette pack guns.

As I said the Taurus 85 is the closest analog today but of much higher quality. $175 today would have been roughly $24 in 1968.

Perfect example of a "Burner" form back in the day ...
This fine specimen , believe it or not , is on GB !!!!!

Jeepers, that thing looks like it's made out of zinc...

bdickens said:

Knowing the racist origin of it, I absolutely despise the term SNS.

Cool little pistol, though.

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How is the term SNS "racist", please enlighten us.

A SNS or "Saturday Night Special" is a colloquial term used to describe a compact small caliber handgun usually of pretty low quality. Nothing to do with race at all.

stchman said:

How is the term SNS "racist", please enlighten us.

A SNS or "Saturday Night Special" is a colloquial term used to describe a compact small caliber handgun usually of pretty low quality. Nothing to do with race at all.

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I was scratching my head the same as you. Don't know how that is racist but maybe I'm ignorant to the history of the term. But in today's snowflake society, everything is racist or offensive; so there you go.

The term to me always meant cheap, pot-metal gun, often used in perpetrating crimes or suicide due to their cheap cost and small lightweight designs and throw-away values.

It's not hard to find. "N-ggertown Saturday Night" special was a term coined to describe the kind of small, inexpensive handgun that was typically the only thing that newly emancipated blacks could afford to buy to defend themselves against the likes of the Klan.

Not surprising, when you learn how gun control had much of it's roots in postbellum racism, that they were some of the earliest targets of proposed bans.

I almost bought a Sundance Boa recently. It was a typical US-made cast-zinc single-action 25 automatic. It was a little different from most because it had a grip safety (made of black plastic). I finally decided it wasn't interesting enough to be worth $125 + shipping + transfer fees.

Saturday Night Special was never a term with a real precise definition. It meant any really cheap gun. so back in the 60's it may have included old 32 and 38 top-break revolvers too. Most of the new guns in the SNS category were imported by then, and the Gun Control Act of 1968 tried to keep them out with a size criteria. That sort of worked, but it created a new industry for making cheap guns in the USA. The Raven was one of the first examples of that. They have ultimately evolved into decent guns under the High Point label, IMO.

bdickens said:

It's not hard to find. "N-ggertown Saturday Night" special was a term coined to describe the kind of small, inexpensive handgun that was typically the only thing that newly emancipated blacks could afford to buy to defend themselves against the likes of the Klan.

Not surprising, when you learn how gun control had much of it's roots in postbellum racism, that they were some of the earliest targets of proposed bans.

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Well I'm from the South. Born in the middle of desegregation and have never heard of a N-Town Saturday Night Special. It was more like the White Trash Pool Hall Saturday Night Special where I lived. Unless you can point me to some written documentation from the late 1800's I'm suspicious this may be a case of revisionist history. I don't doubt you have read it. I just doubt the accuracy.

Me, either. I first saw the term in a 1970s gunzine article.
If accurate, it predates us.

Well I was going to post Skynyrd's Mr. Saturday Night Special, but it might be against forum rules.

bdickens said:

Knowing the racist origin of it, I absolutely despise the term SNS.

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These days everything is racist.
I've never thought of that term as racist , and I'm not going to start now.

This thread will likely be ruined by inserting that unnecessary subject.

Apparently it was a bit of a racist term even though like most of you I had never heard it described that way until now.

Gun ownership advocates describe the term as racist in origin[6] arguing that many of the guns banned were typically purchased and owned by low-income black people.[2][7] In his book Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out, gun rights advocate Don Kates found racial overtones in the focus on the Saturday night special.[8]

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_special

I for one like my Beretta 25 auto. No its not a powerhouse and I never thought it was. But its the smallest hide out gun I own. A friend of my dad used a 25 auto to kill a guy who tried to rob his gas station. So it will work. But the guy replaced the 25 auto after being "No Billed" by the Grand Jury and on his way home he stopped and bought a 357 revolver. He used that gun to kill two more robbers that tried to rob him at his used car lot.

OP I like your gun.

Maybe Don Kates , a liberal apparently - ("In his book Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out, gun rights advocate Don Kates") - was full of crap.
I own a Beretta 25 auto , model 418. Little .25s are cool , don't know just why. Don't think I'd trust in it as a back up , though. Lots of good 32s and 380s for that.

If this thread is to have any hope we have to just drop the racism claim and talk about the original subject , little inexpensive handguns which are commonly referred to as Saturday Night Specials. To me that is just a loose classification of guns. Period.

Best throw-down gun ever made!

Remember, the little 22, 25 & 32 handguns were not banned from importation back in 1967 because they were unreliable & ineffective but rather because they were very easy to conceal, very reliable and surprisingly effective. While Saturday Night Special carries the additional connotation of "cheap" there were a whole bunch of really nice, very well made, super reliable small caliber handguns generally available and very popular.

Back in the day we were Customs Brokers. We had a client, F. A. Bower who used to import knives from W. Germany and .22 revolvers. He actually imported the frames, cylinders an barrels separately as he could save money on the import duty. He would have a local gunsmith assemble them. They were junk.

jar said:

Remember, the little 22, 25 & 32 handguns were not banned from importation back in 1967 because they were unreliable & ineffective but rather because they were very easy to conceal, very reliable and surprisingly effective. While Saturday Night Special carries the additional connotation of "cheap" there were a whole bunch of really nice, very well made, super reliable small caliber handguns generally available and very popular.

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There is also the school that says they were banned because they were competing too effectively with US brands.

Jim Watson said:

There is also the school that says they were banned because they were competing too effectively with US brands.

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Possible except by then most of the similar handguns sold by US based companies were actually being built by European companies and just rebranded, like the Colt Junior and the Baby Browning.

jar said:

Remember, the little 22, 25 & 32 handguns were not banned from importation back in 1967 because they were unreliable & ineffective but rather because they were very easy to conceal, very reliable and surprisingly effective. While Saturday Night Special carries the additional connotation of "cheap" there were a whole bunch of really nice, very well made, super reliable small caliber handguns generally available and very popular.

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I disagree. They were banned because they were cheap and turned up in a lot of crimes. I am sorry if people don't like to hear that, but poor people A) buy cheap guns and B) get involved in more crime. They were NOT banned because they were "very reliable and surprisingly effective". And most of them were made "down to a price, not up to a standard", and were NOT "very well made". Yes, the well made ones like the Berettas and the FN Brownings got swept up by the size restriction for import as well, but they were not the target of the rule. Perhaps you are misled by the fact that it is mainly the best of the bunch that have survived to present day.

Frankly, the Raven seems to have set a new standard for good reliability in cheap 25s.

I recently purchased a couple "Saturday Night Special" pistols myself and discovered them to be quite fun. Both my HP22A and HP25A have fired everything I've put through them and indeed do produce groups rather than patterns on paper.

I bought them for kicks and they have certainly provided that.

Monac said:

I disagree. They were banned because they were cheap and turned up in a lot of crimes. I am sorry if people don't like to hear that, but poor people A) buy cheap guns and B) get involved in more crime. They were NOT banned because they were "very reliable and surprisingly effective". And most of them were made "down to a price, not up to a standard", and were NOT "very well made". Yes, the well made ones like the Berettas and the FN Brownings got swept up by the size restriction for import as well, but they were not the target of the rule. Perhaps you are misled by the fact that it is mainly the best of the bunch that have survived to present day.

Frankly, the Raven seems to have set a new standard for good reliability in cheap 25s.

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The point is that the small 22, 25 and 32 pistols were effective even when they were the cheap throw-aways. The Saturday Night Specials might have had a short and somewhat unreliable history but they were still not banned because they were unreliable or ineffective.

I was using such handguns at the time and still use such handguns today.

Jar, I agree - the quality, effectiveness, or reliability (or lack of these qualities) was not why the Gun Control Act of 1968 banned the importation of small pistols. They were banned because they kept turning up in crimes, and it was thought that preventing their importation would reduce the number of people who got shot in crimes, and maybe reduce the murder rate a bit. This did not work out, because there was a big backlog of cheap guns in the US, and because domestic manufacturers sprang up to fill the demand.

However, just like now, the quality, and therefore reliability of cheap guns tended to be quite hit or miss. If you are including Berettas, FN-Brownings, and Astras as Saturday Specials, they were fine guns. If you mean Galesis, I don't know. RGs had quite a poor reputation for quite a while, although they have some defenders. But Saturday Night Special was always a term of derision or scorn, and generally meant low quality guns, not the products of the best manufacturers.

As for effectiveness, I am not going to touch that because of what a hotly debated topic it is. My personal opinion is that if 22 or 25 was all that effective for self defense, no one would have created a 9mm or 45. But obviously many people have found the calibers that very small guns can shoot quite useful.