357/38 reloading questions

alfsauve said:

If you have loads with a very small powder charge, especially in a .357 case, a magnum primer would be one way to insure ignition.

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Walkalong said:

I cannot agree with that as a blanket statement.

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I agree it's not always so. But I have had it happen to me with a light load that if the powder was in the front end of the case near the bullet I didn't always get ignition. But if I tilted the gun upward before every shot then ignition was more reliable. I retried these loads with magnum primers and found ignition more reliable regardless of orientation of the powder. I'll have to look in my book to see what they were but I think it involved 148gr WCs in a target load.

I bought an 8 lb batch of 700x during the powder shortage 4 years ago and am still working my way through it. Like Unique, it seemed pretty versatile for handgun calibers that I use. (I did not shoot for a couple of years) It meters to about +/- 0.2 grains. I always load at lower end of range so I don't mind. And I get pretty good groups with it in 45ACP at 4.7 grains. Have not tried it in anything else, but will the next time I load .38 special.

And yeah, carbide dies are a no brainer for straight walled pistol cases.

I have a steel sizing die from my early days if anyone wants to experience lube, dirt, crap, stickiness, ......carbideequalsfreedom.

Carbide dies, 357 mag brass, titegroup powder, standard or mag primers. pick your bullet weight.

If you use .357 brass for both light and heavy loads you won't have to adjust your dies.

In my limited experience, Tite Group and Power Pistol work well with standard SPP. Alternatives to try are BE86, Longshot, and 2400. Blue Dot works better with SPM primers. With magnum primers, also try IMR4227 and H110.

The Redding seating die comes with a seating insert that does not fit all bullets well. You may need to get a seating plug made for the bullet you use. I like the Redding expander die and the Redding micro adjustable profile crimp die. Lee makes more affordable dies and they work quite well.

158 grain is a good weight for bullets for general use. There are reasons to go lighter or heavier for particular purposes, but for most practice shooting, lighter bullets will use more powder (costing more money) and resulting in faster barrel face erosion. Bullets heavier than 158 gr. are generally costlier.

I inherited a set of 9mm steel dies.
They sucked so bad. I polished them and they sucked a little less.
I'm used to being able to push a 380 shells through a sizing die with my pinky finger.
Carbide dies all the way.

Bob, I'll get your not the only one here that has forgotten a thing or two. I enjoyed the read. Really makes me want to go to the basement and load up some magnums!

To follow up on small loads, I went back to check my notes. I was trying to get Sport Pistol down to pushing a 125gr plated bullet at ~750fps. Didn't ignite well if the powder wasn't in the back of the case. As an experiment I loaded a dozen with magnum primers and that proved more reliable. For those curious, when the failures occurred, the bullet, while exiting the barrel, sometimes didn't make it 10yds down range. I figured only part of the powder ignited, the rest being pushed down the barrel with the bullet before it could ignite. I of course abandoned that loading.

bob4 said:

Thanks all. Going with the 357 cases. Probably Redding dies. And you're right. Just gonna load 357"s. I know I said I shot 38's out of it but I was wrong, again. They were factory 357's. Recoil, as I remember wasn't anything to worry about.

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That's a good decision as revolver cases that are only slightly flared seem to last for many loadings, and downloading is fine with the right powders. So buying 38 brass is a waste in my opinion. However I have lots of 38 brass from years past, so I load those also.

A lot of 357 factory ammo I've shot is watered down. When/if you get into some real 357 loads, you'll notice the difference.

I shoot light loads regularly in my 357. My go-to load is/was 5.5 gr Unique under 125, 550, 158 gr Cast SWC. Standard primers, 860 fps Chrono'ed. .357 brass is no longer difficult to find. I no longer find the blast and recoil of full snort .357s fun or necessary.
I shot the 13.5 gr. 2400 "medium Skeeter Load" some, and didn't like it much atall.
My EDC ammo is Remington Golden Saber 125gr. 38 +P, Speer Gold 135 gr. short barrel +P, or the newer Federal 130 gr Micro HST load. Excellent expansion, easy to control ...approaching pleasant to shoot and excellent results, per Lucky Gunner's tests, and Police Department experience. That's good enough for me!.
I think cast bullets approach the realm of diminishing returns about 900 fps or so, so why load any hotter? Oh, yeah...Steel dies work well with lubrication, but Carbide dies are a goodness! BUT...don't tell anyone...even with Carbide, things go smooooother with just a smidge of lubrication every 10-15 rounds or so.

IWAC said:

I shoot light loads regularly in my 357. My go-to load is/was 5.5 gr Unique under 125, 550, 158 gr Cast SWC. Standard primers, 860 fps Chrono'ed. .357 brass is no longer difficult to find. I no longer find the blast and recoil of full snort .357s fun or necessary.
I shot the 13.5 gr. 2400 "medium Skeeter Load" some, and didn't like it much atall.
My EDC ammo is Remington Golden Saber 125gr. 38 +P, Speer Gold 135 gr. short barrel +P, or the newer Federal 130 gr Micro HST load. Excellent expansion, easy to control ...approaching pleasant to shoot and excellent results, per Lucky Gunner's tests, and Police Department experience. That's good enough for me!.
I think cast bullets approach the realm of diminishing returns about 900 fps or so, so why load any hotter? Oh, yeah...Steel dies work well with lubrication, but Carbide dies are a goodness! And...don't tell anyone, but things go smooooother with just a smidge of lubrication every 10 rounds or so.

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In what size gun is all this being shot? Important context when referring to impressions of what it is like to shoot specific ammo.

Not a big fan of Titegroup and not in large revolver cases, hard to see the tiny charge in the bottom of the case.
Lots of people like it, but just be aware in a .357 case the charge is hiding at the bottom.
AA#2 is a bit less dense (takes up more space in the case) but most fast burn speed pistol powders don;t have good case fill in .357 for light loads. AA#2 also meters great.
Unique, Red Dot, 700X are about as case filling as you can get but none of them are know for their metering qualities....
I like to load all my .357 ammo in .357 cases just easier IMO.
Sharpies can be your friend, A pack with about 8 different colors is about $10.
I mark loads on the bottom of the case (easy to color the bottom when they are in a box) Red is load X, green is load Y etc.
Makes it nice if you ever decide to dump them out and mix them all together, (I make a label for the box with a color stripe and the load.
That way you don't have to worry about brass/nickel coated brass to tell them apart.

Maynard Shooter said:

Bob I've just purchased a Marlin 1895 CB to go with my Dan Wesson 357 revolver. I'm going to be reloading 357 Mag brass in this order nickel plated brass will be used for rifle and yellow brass will be for pistol.I bought 3 lbs of unique and have Speer 158 gr soft point. The manual has a definite distinction between pistol and rifle. Pistol max load is 7.7 gr unique 1040 ft/sec. Rifle max load is 8.2 gr unique 1452 ft/sec. so with that I've decided to make it easy to distinguish between my rifle reloads and my pistol reloads.

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Why not make it a lot easier and just use one load? You are going to gain 95% of that velocity increase with the barrel length of the rifle not the .5gr of powder.

Don't over think it. Make it simple. Either brass is fine especially if you clean your gun regularly. Redding dies are great and most serious rifle shooters swear by them, but I think for handgun especially for day to day fun shooting the Lee work great and cost about half the price. I really like the 4 die set that has seating and crimping separate. Find a good mid range powder. Unique and Universal use basically the same data and can be loaded down or pretty darn hot depending on what you want. Universal meters better for me but I've used a lot of Unique through the years. Go with coated lead bullets. Available from several suppliers. I like Missouri the best and a lot of members use them. Great quality, fairly priced and you can load as hot as you want and never worry about leading the barrel. I do agree with someone above who recommended magnum primers in .357 cases loaded light. I've started using magnum primers in all of my 38 and 357 loads even with the lightest target loads. See no noticeable difference in velocity or pressure on any loads.

Keep things simple.

Regarding powders, you're really in pretty good shape with what you have for loading .357's.

700-X is a great powder for light loads in most any straight wall pistol case. I use it and Red Dot almost interchangeably. You can throw in Clays and Bullseye with those as well.

Power Pistol is really good for middle-of-the-road loads. It, Unique and Herco are all very similar and as far as I'm concerned work equally well, pick one.

Blue Dot is great for heavier loads, not the very heaviest, mind you, but heavier. 2400 is another good one. H-110/W296 is good for the very heaviest loads, but is limited in that you shouldn't use reduced charges with it.

Bullets is where I really seek to simplify things. I cast my own bullets and each has its own task. When go outside to do something and strap on a .357, I usually drop a few extra rounds in my back pocket, which in turn wind up on the nightstand, or my desk, in the cupholder in the pickup or in the washing machine. Not a problem because I can look at the bullet and know what load it is.



The 150 gr. RN bullet on the left is always run 750-800 fps and is used for plinking, practice and small game loads. Since I also have a couple of .38's, these bullets are always loaded in .38 cases.

The SWC in the middle is used for mid-range loads; that is loads running 1000-1050 fps out of my revolvers and around 1200 out of my carbine. This is the load I carry when I carry a gun, but am not necessarily hunting.

The three bullets on the end indicate "bidniss" or hunting loads. They weigh from 165 - 172 grs. and are loaded to around 1300 fps in my revolvers and 1700+ out of the carbine.

35W

bob4 said:

I'm going round and round on the dies. I use Redding dies for my rifles. I like to get the most accurate out of them.At the same time the frugal other side asks... For the cost how much of a difference will they make in a handgun?
I'm middle of the road Brass prep on rifles...Primer holes uniformed, flash holes are de-burred. cases are trimmed/chamfered and only a nylon brush goes through the neck once. As chambering tightens I seat them .002 back. Anyone do all this for handgun loads? Is it worth it along with the cost of the dies?

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I do what you do for rifle loads (prep, good dies, etc.), but not handgun loads.

35W

Eddietruett said:

Don't over think it. Make it simple. Either brass is fine especially if you clean your gun regularly. Redding dies are great and most serious rifle shooters swear by them, but I think for handgun especially for day to day fun shooting the Lee work great and cost about half the price. I really like the 4 die set that has seating and crimping separate. Find a good mid range powder. Unique and Universal use basically the same data and can be loaded down or pretty darn hot depending on what you want. Universal meters better for me but I've used a lot of Unique through the years. Go with coated lead bullets. Available from several suppliers. I like Missouri the best and a lot of members use them. Great quality, fairly priced and you can load as hot as you want and never worry about leading the barrel. I do agree with someone above who recommended magnum primers in .357 cases loaded light. I've started using magnum primers in all of my 38 and 357 loads even with the lightest target loads. See no noticeable difference in velocity or pressure on any loads.

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"Don't overthink it" always means "don't do it differently than I would".

bob4 said:

I'm going round and round on the dies. I use Redding dies for my rifles. I like to get the most accurate out of them.At the same time the frugal other side asks... For the cost how much of a difference will they make in a handgun?
I'm middle of the road Brass prep on rifles...Primer holes uniformed, flash holes are de-burred. cases are trimmed/chamfered and only a nylon brush goes through the neck once. As chambering tightens I seat them .002 back. Anyone do all this for handgun loads? Is it worth it along with the cost of the dies?

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You can do as much of that as you want, but some of it with many people describing what they do strike me as comfort levels developed with loading for rifles, generally unnecessary with straight-wall handgun cartridges. The most obvious obsession is with primers and primer pockets, when a progressive will produce high quality, reliable ammo by decapping and priming on the press. One factor is these wet tumbled machines, with which most seem to be removing primers first, a whole other processing step that doesn't make ammo that goes bang any better. My latest batch of fired brass was washed in a solution of generic Dawn and citric acid. After drying it was polished in clean corn cob all morning, spent primers still intact. I had to throw out my dirty batch of walnut shell media and was reminded what a nice job clean corn cob could do. My thing is I like shiny cases, so I am on my second tumbler. The only time I decap first is when I plan to trim the brass to uniform lengths. I want uniform crimps, but understand that crimp quality can be maintained with a surprisingly wide length range in mils.

bob4 said:

I'm going round and round on the dies. I use Redding dies for my rifles. I like to get the most accurate out of them.At the same time the frugal other side asks... For the cost how much of a difference will they make in a handgun?
I'm middle of the road Brass prep on rifles...Primer holes uniformed, flash holes are de-burred. cases are trimmed/chamfered and only a nylon brush goes through the neck once. As chambering tightens I seat them .002 back. Anyone do all this for handgun loads? Is it worth it along with the cost of the dies?

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Straight wall pistol cartridges - shoot - clean - reload. No need for all the extra work.

I buy carbide dies when available for straight walled brass. I have also found that non carbide die sets are really inexpensive on the used market. I have purchased several of them to get the seater dies so I can set up a dedicated die for each bullet I reload. This is especially true for 38 SPL dies.

I will check a sample of each brand of brass for length to make sure all are basically the same for crimping ease. Otherwise all I do is decap then clean in SS pins for prep work. Rifle I am much more particular. YMMV