41 magnum, why?

mcb said:

No, I was not quoting "+P" I mentioned the one 44 Mag "+P" load at over 1500 fps as a curiosity. 41 Mag roughly maxes out about 1050 ft-lb cartridge and 44 Mag roughly maxes out about 1250 ft-lbs from reasonable length pistol barrels. If these difference are "very little" than maybe 10mm Auto is nearly 41 Mag performance.

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Let's examine that a little, standard pressure ammo, which means nothing much over 300 grains will stabilize in the 44 or 265 grains in the 41... using Buffalo Bore ammo website since they list barrel lengths...6-6.5 inches being the lengths we'll look at here.

41 mag 265 grain cast load at 1,379 fps... that is 1,119 ft. lbs.

The comparable 44 load is (based on sectional density)...
44 mag 300 grain....1,330 fps... that is 1,178 ft. lbs.

59 ft. lbs.... even if kinetic energy meant anything.... that's not enough to matter...as I said, it is only a very little bit more.

Its plain simple physics.... the only thing the 44 has on the 41 is .019" diameter... so when both are loaded with bullets of the same construction and sectional density, at the same pressure level.... the 41 will ALWAYS be right there with the 44.

I said it once in another thread...if....IF.... that .019" extra diameter is needed for larger game....say anything over 800 pounds... then the 44 has a slight edge over the 41....meplat matters on really big game.

But even then....its still only a very slight advantage.

These 2 rounds are just that similar.

I can hear Paul Harrell saying it....

That is NOT a lot more.

Ridgerunner665 said:

Let's examine that a little, standard pressure ammo, which means nothing much over 300 grains will stabilize in the 44 or 265 grains in the 41... using Buffalo Bore ammo website since they list barrel lengths...6-6.5 inches being the lengths we'll look at here.

41 mag 265 grain cast load at 1,379 fps... that is 1,119 ft. lbs.

The comparable 44 load is (based on sectional density)...
44 mag 300 grain....1,330 fps... that is 1,178 ft. lbs.

59 ft. lbs.... even if kinetic energy meant anything.... that's not enough to matter...as I said, it is only a very little bit more.

Its plain simple physics.... the only thing the 44 has on the 41 is .019" diameter... so when both are loaded with bullets of the same construction and sectional density, at the same pressure level.... the 41 will ALWAYS be right there with the 44.

I said it once in another thread...if....IF.... that .019" extra diameter is needed for larger game....say anything over 800 pounds... then the 44 has a slight edge over the 41....meplat matters on really big game.

But even then....its still only a very slight advantage.

These 2 rounds are just that similar.

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And yet if I drop down to 270gr bullet suddenly we have the case volume to bump that up 1260 ft-lbs of energy in the 44 Mag and that is 12% more then your cherry picked 41 Mag load. When you look across all the high performance ammo you see that the 44 Mag is more capable. It can deliver more energy, more momentum, with a heavier selection of bullet weights. YMMV

I didn't cherry pick anything....I used bullets of similar sectional density.

I can do the same with that 270 grain bullet and the result will be the same, and with any other similar sectional density bullets you want to compare.

The corresponding 41 bullet weight, by sectional density, is 250 grains.

250 grain 41 bullet at 1,457 fps...1,178 ft. lbs.

1250 - 1178 = 72 ft. lbs, still a long way from "a lot".

I used Accurate powders load data, corrected for barrel length, to figure that....I subtracted 75 fps from their max load of Enforcer to account for the 3.5" difference in barrel length (theirs was 10")... we're still using 6.5 inch barrels.

I'm done with this particular thread...I prefer not to argue on forums, nothing comes from it.

I've only tried to lead those who don't have preconceived notions to the truth.

I've went through all this thoroughly with a my own pistols and those of friends over the past year or so... somewhere around 1,500 rounds fired, all suitable powders tried...in both 41 and 44...I didn't do all that in preparation for any upcoming big hunt (I wish), I did it because I'm a ballistics nerd and I enjoy shooting stuff.

Lil Gun stands out in both rounds for the really "get em going" loads (+P), Accurate #9 has a place too with long copper bullets (Cutting Edge)...I use 4100 (Enforcer) because it gets good velocity and is easier on forcing cones than Lil Gun.

There just isn't much difference between them guys.

.019" of bullet diameter and roughly 30 grains of bullet weight.... that's about it.

Ridgerunner665 said:

Let's examine that a little, standard pressure ammo, which means nothing much over 300 grains will stabilize in the 44 or 265 grains in the 41...

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Says who? That is patently false.

Ridgerunner665 said:

41 mag 265 grain cast load at 1,379 fps... that is 1,119 ft. lbs.

The comparable 44 load is (based on sectional density)...
44 mag 300 grain....1,330 fps... that is 1,178 ft. lbs.

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Except the .44 does that with a 330gr.

Ridgerunner665 said:

Its plain simple physics.... the only thing the 44 has on the 41 is .019" diameter... so when both are loaded with bullets of the same construction and sectional density, at the same pressure level.... the 41 will ALWAYS be right there with the 44.

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But it isn't unless you severely limit your scope. Maybe the .41 has untapped potential because there has been so much more development for the .44 but as it stands, the .44 simply has greater capability. When the .41 can launch a 325gr WLN over 1200fps (or 1350fps at max length/pressure) we can revisit this discussion.

Ridgerunner665 said:

I said it once in another thread...if....IF.... that .019" extra diameter is needed for larger game....say anything over 800 pounds... then the 44 has a slight edge over the 41....meplat matters on really big game.

But even then....its still only a very slight advantage.

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Better, heavier bullets at similar velocities. Not to mention that there are several monolithic solids in the .44 caliber but not the .41. Only the light in the loafers CEB design.

The .41mag sounds like a good round but from an outsider, like myself to the round looking in, the benefit to me would seem to be for those that do not reload and want something that bridges the gap between .357 and .44mag. If that person ultimately decides to reload then as a bonus the .41mag is perfect for that.
Now, if your a reloader and were choosing between the .41mag and .44mag, why choose the .41mag?

Targa said:

the benefit to me would seem to be for those that do not reload and want something that bridges the gap between .357 and .44mag

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While I can understand how someone would come to that conclusion, reality is just the opposite. Even finding 41 magnum ammo in a store is very difficult, and if you do, you'll be restricted to only a few loads.

It does fill the gap you mention, but it's only going to do so with good flexibility if a person loads their own.

gspn said:

I'll add this: virtually nobody would own a 44 mag right now if the movie Dirty Harry hadn't come out in 1971. In that movie, Clint Eastwood actually carried a 41 mag Model 57. So that's why you should get one.

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I must be virtually nobody since I had 44 mags long before Dirty Harry came out.

That makes sense 460Shooter, I have never given much thought to the .41mag but I often seen it talked about fondly on forums, I just havent grasped the attraction to it.

tbob38 said:

I must be virtually nobody since I had 44 mags long before Dirty Harry came out.

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It would appear to be so.

Targa said:

That makes sense 460Shooter, I have never given much thought to the .41mag but I often seen it talked about fondly on forums, I just havent grasped the attraction to it.

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Personally to me, it only has appeal if put in a smaller than N frame sized gun. I know the 44 can beat up an N frame fast, but to me it's like if a designer at Chevy comes up with a higher output engine for the Camaro that really makes that car a true muscle car. Then the designer pitches the idea of putting this new higher performance engine in the Camaro to corporate, and they answer "No, put it in the suburban."

In the past metallurgy wasn't as good, so I can see why it wouldn't work. Modern designs and materials have me convinced it can work now.

Why? Because .41 AE Ammo is to hard to find.

I happened into a 41 magnum, a Redhawk, when I really wasn't looking for one. Shooting this revolver has made me a 41 mag fan so much so we even picked up a 41 mag contender barrel after shooting the revolver. We also have many of the others mentioned in the thread: 357, 44 mag, etc plus even a couple of 10mm revolvers. The 41 is very accurate, pleasant to shoot, and easy to load for. We plan on keeping it and don't see having one as an "either or" issue with any other caliber revolver. YMMV

I just bought a Blackhawk .41 Magnum about a week ago. I own or have owned at least eight .44 Magnums of various manufacture and love every one of them. Presently I am gathering all the components to assemble rounds to shoot through it. My reason for purchasing the gun and embarking on a new caliber at 68 years old is just that I have always been aware of the caliber and the odd mystique that surrounds it. That and hoping it won't quite punish my old arthritic hands as badly as my .44's do these days! Besides .44's I have several .45 Colts that I am quite fond of also. According to their supporters they can kill T-Rexs and invading space aliens, I dunno! I love 'em all.

I had no idea what I was missing before I picked up a Model 57 41 Magnum. Shoots like a dream, there's no describing it. Recoil is just a bit more than 357 Magnum but not as hard as a 44 Magnum. The noticeable difference in accuracy has to be contributed to the (less) felt recoil. I highly recommend owning one especially of you have been a revolver aficionado.
The 44 Magnum has a place but the 41 can easily fill it.

Walkalong said:

So people will go "What?" when you tell them the caliber.

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When I bought my M57, there were people gawking at it (gun show) saying "I never heard of one of those."

silvermane_1 said:

"Why .41 Magnum?", my answer would be "Why not .41 Magnum?"

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The reason I wanted one is because they're the odd bird magnum. Everybody and his brother has a .357, lots of guys have .44's, so I wanted a .41. As far as magnums go, they were late to the game and left before the 7th inning stretch (original model). Sure, I want a .44 Magnum, too, to round out the collection, but I figure the .41's relative rarity will make them worth more sometime down the line. I picked this one up today, a M57 no dash, made around 1968-69. Not sure I'll keep that vented rib add-on, but I'm warming up to it. Sort of like saying to a Python owner, up yours buddy, I got vents, too.

Well it's truly a great caliber, but entirely a handloader's proposition. Factory ammunition is both expensive and hard to find. With normal weight for caliber bullets (210-220 grains for .41 vs. ~240 grains for .44 Magnum), and with full house loads, you can barely feel a difference in recoil in guns with similar weight.

Brian Pearce once commented that in his experience, .41 Magnum revolvers have exhibited closer chamber and bore tolerance than other magnums. This has been my experience as well. This makes load work up a bit easier, especially with cast lead alloy bullets. With jacketed types, it's a wash, both are equally accurate.

For a hunting arm, handgun hunting that is, there's no difference in killing power at handgun distance, say out to 75 yds or so. But if you're carrying a revolver as a back up to a pistol cartridge rifle, the .44 is definitely a better choice as it's easy to find good, accurate carbines in .44 magnum but the .41 is both rare and expensive.

Were it my choice and as a shooter with limited funds to make a purchase, and would want a handgun that I'd find useful for a lifetime...I'd go with the .44 Magnum. Being a gun crank that likes odd calibers, and an inveterate handloader, I really like my .41's, but advise that a .44 makes more practical sense. HTH's Rod

Im not as knowledgeable with the 41 Mag or 44 mag as most of you guys ... but from what I have read and heard the 41 Mag is a great dual purpose cartridge.. hunting , woods protection .. close to the 44mag ... and better than the 357 mag In that roll.
The 41 mag is better suited for two legged self defense than the 44 mag
The 41 mag can be housed in bit smaller revolver also .. ( Charter )
You have the 44spl for the 44mag
I feel the 357 mag is better for two legged predators

If you handload ... the sky's the limit with the 44mag and 41 mag ... so its more of a personal preference

I have a .41 mag, hand load for it, and like it. Without hand loading for it I would not keep it. Factory loads are grossly expensive and harsh shooting. The answer is that you should buy the .44 mag if you have no strong reason or desire to have a .41mag. The .41 mag might have been a great round for tough cops who carried revolvers. Other than that use, not much the .41 mag will do that a .44 will not do just as well.

I had a 41 magnum S&W. Expensive bullets, hard to find and more important “why?” The 44 mag is far more versatile. It can shoot 44 special If need be and the 44 mag has many loads that are cheaper. I sold the 41 mag and bought a 44 mag.

No
Get the 44 all day every day
More ammo options readily available
More re salable
More Capable

4thHorseman said:

Expensive bullets, hard to find and more important “why?”

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Uhhh... I find .41 bullets just as cheap (or expensive) as any in .44 or .45, and in 35 years I've never had a problem finding them. Following your logic, there is no reason for the .45 Colt, nor the .357 Magnum...

If you reload, 41 is cheaper. Less lead to make a bullet, less powder to get the desired load, brass and primers cost the same. I can get any mold for a 41 that I can get for a 44 so there isn’t more choices. There is not anything on this continent that a 44 will kill any deader than a 41.

I have a 44 and a 41, a couple of each really. The 41 gets out of the safe a lot more than the 44 because it’s cheaper to use and besides that, it’s a whole lot more fun. My question is why the heck not.

4thHorseman said:

I had a 41 magnum S&W. Expensive bullets, hard to find and more important “why?” The 44 mag is far more versatile. It can shoot 44 special If need be and the 44 mag has many loads that are cheaper. I sold the 41 mag and bought a 44 mag.

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