Anyone see inconsistent primer pocket swagging with the Dillon swagger? I swagged 500 pieces of LC18 new never fired pulled 308 brass. I set the swagger to swag the pockets so priming felt right on the first few I checked. When loading some of the brass I noticed that some primed hard. Well today I was resizing some of the brass after shooting it and decided to try my new Ballistic Tools primer pocket gauge and what I found was most of the brass is swagged right, about 25 out of a hundred the gauge wouldn't even start into the pocket and about 5 a 100 I actually checked the pockets with the no go side of the gauge due to them being loose on the go side. So out of 500 pieces of all the same brass that was sized and trimmed before swagging 125 didn't swage enough, 25 ish swaged to much and 350 are just right. Now I know why I get a hard priming piece of 223 brass every once in a while.
Inconsistent primer pocket swagging.
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GW Staar
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I think it has a lot to do with the hardness of the brass being somewhat variable. I've seen the same thing, in fact some of my really old LC brass is so hard it doesn't swage well at all. The newer stuff is better, leading me to believe that the older the brass since it's been created...the harder. I don't use the Dillon product but the RCBS bench swager works using the same principle.
When you use a progressive to prime, that becomes a problem, when a sample every once in a while brings your momentum to a screeching halt.....annoying to say the least. I've since rectified the problem by use a reamer on my Trim Mate, and just bump each brass on it after swaging to slightly (and I mean slightly) take the edge off the primer pocket after swaging.
So the brass prep process for me is, 1: Trim, 2: Swage, 3: Then use the Trim Mate in one pass to first bump the edge with the reamer, Uniform the pocket, and then chamfer the flash holes.
What the third step does for me, is it both stops the difficulty in starting a primer, AND the uniformer makes each primer pocket the same depth! Why is the same depth important? Simple answer! My progressive has a stop bolt that I set for primer depth......such a feature only works well if each primer pocket is the same depth!
One additional plus for uniforming? If the uniformer goes in the swaged brass is sized the same on the way in......insurance for easy continuous, no hick-ups progressive reloading.
And it's just added gravy that the edge bump makes it easy to distinguish between prepped primer pocket versus unprepped.
When you use a progressive to prime, that becomes a problem, when a sample every once in a while brings your momentum to a screeching halt.....annoying to say the least. I've since rectified the problem by use a reamer on my Trim Mate, and just bump each brass on it after swaging to slightly (and I mean slightly) take the edge off the primer pocket after swaging.
So the brass prep process for me is, 1: Trim, 2: Swage, 3: Then use the Trim Mate in one pass to first bump the edge with the reamer, Uniform the pocket, and then chamfer the flash holes.
What the third step does for me, is it both stops the difficulty in starting a primer, AND the uniformer makes each primer pocket the same depth! Why is the same depth important? Simple answer! My progressive has a stop bolt that I set for primer depth......such a feature only works well if each primer pocket is the same depth!
One additional plus for uniforming? If the uniformer goes in the swaged brass is sized the same on the way in......insurance for easy continuous, no hick-ups progressive reloading.
And it's just added gravy that the edge bump makes it easy to distinguish between prepped primer pocket versus unprepped.
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Pulled brass it is not still primed if not fired ?
I thought pulled was a loaded round that was taken apart and sold as components ?
I have not seen LC pulled brass that has been deprimed and sold as new I am just curious about the brass,
Brass was primed until I made it not primed. Purchased from Rocky Mountain Reloading as never fired pull down brass. The bullet sealant was a pain to remove, nasty tar like substance that was still sticky enough to collect a bunch of powder when dropped into the case.
Most uniformers are slightly smaller then the primer pocket and will slide past a loose or partially removed primer crimp. I thought like you do that if the uniformer goes into the pocket all is well but figured out that this is not the case as all the primer pockets had been uniformed to start with. Your probably not seeing this since you cut the crimp out of the brass as well as swaging.
I guess I figure if I still need to cut the crimp out after swaging why am I wasting time swaging and should probably just go straight to cutting. Sawging is quicker but if I have to measure each pocket then cut a third of them anyway am I really saving time?
Blue68f100
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All the same year, not a few odd balls mixed in your "18's" ? If not the different lots will be different. I sort by year before swagging, which usually requires a different adj. I'm using the LNL-AP swagger system.
GW Staar
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I tried to explain that I wasn't completely reaming....only taking the edge off with a sub-second bump starting the trip around the Trim Mate. That was all it took to allow my RCBS swager to plunge in quickly.....AND prevent the press from hanging on the edge. I agree fully reaming is slower, but I thought since I wanted to uniform and smooth flash holes anyway, that split second bump wouldn't slow me down. All I can say is it removed the disruptions, and allowed be to keep priming on the progressive.
There are plenty of people who just use military reamers and skip swaging altogether.....that would have been my next step if I had had to ream all the way through the crimps.
My first experience with reamers was with RCBS's old model that put a chamfer all the way to the bottom of the crimp.....I hated that...appearance looked as if the reamer cut half the pocket out. It didn't but it sure got wide-eyed looks from others at the range. It sure enough made priming failsafe though. With the new-mproved reamers that didn't happen, but still beveled more than I liked. I didn't mind allowing just a sliver of bright metal to show.....made it easier to center the primer on the way in....and so I tried bumping.....it worked for me.
GW Staar
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FROGO207
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I have found all the same year does not equal all the same weight and therefore not all the same internal volume. I think it is different forming machines that are to blame. Now one of the reasons is different web thickness. If you get a different thickness then you swage more or less deeply depending on your adjustments. I went to the CH4D swaging tool for that reason. It is just as fast as the Dillon tool and does not need to be adjusted for a particular head stamp once set up.There are videos on You Tube of how the tool works. I also own the RCBS one and have used the Dillon SS as well. I'll keep mine and never look back.
It wasn't a typo. I was implying that if I'm getting this kind of inconsistency with just 500 pieces of 308 brass there has to be just as much if not more with a few 1000 223 mix head stamp and year cases so no wonder I get hard priming 223 as well.
I was looking to upgrade to the Hornady LnL AP swager system or maybe the new Lee upside down press with a swager die but I might save the money and just start cutting the crimp out. I have already worked up the majority of the brass I will need for the rest of my life so cutting primers on a few 1000 pieces over the next 20 ish years isn't to big of a deal.
I found on some of this 308 brass that the new RCBS crimp remover wasn't removing enough brass for the pocket check tool to fit the pocket, I eventually dug through my pile of old tools and pulled out my old style RCBS crimp remover and used it on the stubborn pockets. First pocket I used the old style on I remembered right away why I switched crimp removers, primer seating defiantly isn't an issue with that much cut. From then on out I used a light touch when using the old style cutter.
After messing around with these cases I wonder if some of the issue has to do with primer crimp depth or tool pressure. The pockets went from fine with just swagging, light cut with new style crimp remover, max cut with new style crimp remover and max cut with new crimp remover plus light to medium cut with old style crimp remover. In the end the primer pocket check tool went into the primer pocket with about the same resistance and friction from the swagged only pocket to the cut the crap out of it pocket. Seems to me that it has something to do with the depth of the primer crimp, some were deep enough that the new style crimp remover just doesn't cut down far enough hence the need for the old style cutter that cuts half way to the bottom of the pocket. On the really deep primer crimp pockets I wonder if the Dillon swagging rod would bottom out in the primer pocket before it was able to swag it enough?
I was looking to upgrade to the Hornady LnL AP swager system or maybe the new Lee upside down press with a swager die but I might save the money and just start cutting the crimp out. I have already worked up the majority of the brass I will need for the rest of my life so cutting primers on a few 1000 pieces over the next 20 ish years isn't to big of a deal.
I found on some of this 308 brass that the new RCBS crimp remover wasn't removing enough brass for the pocket check tool to fit the pocket, I eventually dug through my pile of old tools and pulled out my old style RCBS crimp remover and used it on the stubborn pockets. First pocket I used the old style on I remembered right away why I switched crimp removers, primer seating defiantly isn't an issue with that much cut. From then on out I used a light touch when using the old style cutter.
After messing around with these cases I wonder if some of the issue has to do with primer crimp depth or tool pressure. The pockets went from fine with just swagging, light cut with new style crimp remover, max cut with new style crimp remover and max cut with new crimp remover plus light to medium cut with old style crimp remover. In the end the primer pocket check tool went into the primer pocket with about the same resistance and friction from the swagged only pocket to the cut the crap out of it pocket. Seems to me that it has something to do with the depth of the primer crimp, some were deep enough that the new style crimp remover just doesn't cut down far enough hence the need for the old style cutter that cuts half way to the bottom of the pocket. On the really deep primer crimp pockets I wonder if the Dillon swagging rod would bottom out in the primer pocket before it was able to swag it enough?
GW Staar
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Ahhh, now I understand.....you are right....223 is even harder to make play nice.
I sure don't have all the answers, but I do know that some hard brass springs back some after swaging and can cause hell. Some swage it again and have some success, but that's even more time lost.
The old RCBS cutter really didn't cut deeper I don't think, but the angle created a wide chamfer that made it look deep. The primers always seated all the way down, with only the primers round appearing to stick up....but not the actual wall of the primer....if that makes any sense. IOW's you could still measure .004 or more recess from the case head in....to the top of the primer.
I still think most of the hell is caused by hard brass spring-back rather than not enough swage....except that obviously over swaging allowing for spring-back would work....except in the cases that DIDN'T spring-back.....then you'd have another mess.
Cutting such rather than swaging is probably the best way for brass that doesn't play nice. You could anneal (soften) the brass, but annealing the base ruins the brass.
Some really old LC 7.62 (1967) that I processed a few years ago was so hard that the swager button sheared a sliver of brass .... rather than swaging it, and deposited it in the bottom of the pockets. I didn't notice and loaded the brass....I got a surprise in the form of a slamfire. (I forgot to check for high primers that day)
Anyway, I found a few more high primers in that group and broke them down. I found a sliver of brass in the bottom of the pockets that held the primers proud....even uniforming didn't catch them because the uniformer just spun as if the pocket was deep enough.....lesson learned.
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