Best defensive bullets for a .38+P handload?

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TTv2

TTv2

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I reload for .32 and .45 Colt and I have my preferred loads for them. .32 is restricted to Hornady XTP bullets as I don't think a non expanding bullet in .32 is a good projectile for defense, .45 Colt gets either a full wadcutter cuz it's nice and cheap and very effective.

When I bought my .357 revolvers I knew I'd eventually load for them, but didn't think about any defense loads for them. Well, after having shot my 6 inch Charter .357 and 2 inch Rock Island so well, I've got to start thinking about some "business" ammo.

I figure for anything .357 I'll use a JHP, either Speer Gold Dot or Hornady XTP, but for .38 I'm not sure. I could go with a full wadcutter like I do for .45 Colt, pay for JHP's, or try a lead hollow point and see how that does.

For my .38 snub, I'd have to load them to standard pressure, but for my .357's I could load the .38's right up to max .38 +P. So, I guess I should probably do a standard pressure handload to be used in any .38 or .357, and a hot .38 load that would most likely be used in .357's only.

I guess for the standard pressure load I should go with the wadcutter and not have to worry about expansion. The hot load I'm not sure, I could go in any direction.

For those that reload hollow points, how have you found cast lead bullets with a hollow point to perform? Do you prefer them to non expanding semi wadcutter or full wadcutter?
 
Rim rock bullets sells the same dead soft gas checked cast bullets that buffalo bore uses in it's snub defensive ammo. The lead is so soft it must be close to pure. You could fool around with various charges and see what works.

The alternative is maybe a softer 125 grain cast bullet with Longshot, which I believe hodgdon claims a crazy high velocity even at standard pressure.
 
I have some loaded with soft lead. Won't penetrate a 50gal barrel at 10ft but will spread out about half dollar and severely tear up flesh.
 
Dudedog said:
For what it's worth here are some gel tests of factory .38 ammo.
You should be able to duplicate the results with the same bullets and vel.
Gel tests of course are just tests and not real world but they can give you an idea of results.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/
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Thanks for the reminder of these gel tests, definitely not a bad reference for JHP's. 158's aren't an option, .38 can't push them fast enough to expand. 140 grain JHP's are out there and those would interest me in a longer barrel like the 6 inch .357 I have as even the 125 grain bullets seem to have trouble expanding at .38 velocities in snub barrels.

I think for the snub I'm gonna have to do a solid bullet, probably a wadcutter.

I'm also thinking that the lead hollow points are going to have issues penetrating. Now I'm gonna have to look and see how 140 grain JHP's perform compared to 125's.
 
I think if I was depending on .38 for SD I would just spend the $ and buy the Federal 130gr HST micro.
Really good results from a 2" barrel IMO.
Interesting bullet, a holow point wadcutter shape.

I have heard of people loading .38 HBWCs backwards for SD in .38 but I don't know if I would want to trust my life to them. (and you are of course)
There are also possible issues using reloads for SD, maybe real, maybe imagined, but I just prefer to avoid them by using factory ammo for SD. (about the only factory ammo I use anymore)

Hope you find something that works for you.
 
I like GoldDots for the +p loads but it still doesn’t really penetrate enough. I’m on the fence myself, considering wadcutters for the plain 38 Special. I’ve tested the HSTs and the penetration was terrible, less than 10”.

I just tested the 135gr +p GoldDots out of my wife’s SP101 in gel with plastic inserts molded in it to somewhat replicate connective tissue. After this test my wife will be carrying something more powerful, probably the 357 magnum 135gr GoldDots. These are known to be low power 357 loads, which is what I would hand load if I went that route. ABDCD908-4E08-4A77-A83C-324BE8E8F896.jpeg
 
Dudedog said:
I think if I was depending on .38 for SD I would just spend the $ and buy the Federal 130gr HST micro.
Really good results from a 2" barrel IMO.
Interesting bullet, a holow point wadcutter shape.

I have heard of people loading .38 HBWCs backwards for SD in .38 but I don't know if I would want to trust my life to them. (and you are of course)
There are also possible issues using reloads for SD, maybe real, maybe imagined, but I just prefer to avoid them by using factory ammo for SD. (about the only factory ammo I use anymore)

Hope you find something that works for you.
Click to expand...
The 130 HST is a good performer from what I see in the Lucky Gunner tests, but I prefer the Hornady Critical Defense for its lower price and decent performance. I'm just looking for something I can handload because I can grab about 100 cases of .38 every time I go to the range and can build up a pretty good supply.

Can't say that the idea here is to use them against people, it's more just something I'm thinking about to save money or in case there's another panic or laws get passed banning online ammo sales and forcing me to buy ammo from my overpriced LGS.

I don't like being stuck just reloading "practice" ammo. All my reloads have to have a purpose to them, be it saving money, making a load that increases the versatility of a gun I have, making ammo I can't buy anywhere else, or for defensive use.
 
I load a lee 158gr SWC for my 38 special work. I like more penetration from 38 special. Power Pistol works pretty good for standard pressure and +p. YMMV.
 
For a S&W M36 w/a 1 7/8" barrel I load a Speer # 4605 swaged BBWC with F100 primers and 3.5gr of Bullseye, this load is very accurate in short or longer barreled revolvers for me. If I carry a reload it is with a different bullet profile.
 
I chose Remington Golden Saber based on the Luckygunner test. I was able to purchase 200 of the Federal HST bullets to load and have tested them with several different powders and have been impressed with my very unscientific tests, mainly water jugs and wed newspaper. The only holdback to the HST that I can see is being flat nosed, they are slower reloading than a pointed type bullet. Back in the day we did load a lot of the HBWC backwards and they would be a mean defensive bullet at short range, but expansion only and very little penetration. They also begin to tumble after about 15 yards and accuracy was awful beyond 15 yards as well. That was one thing I checked first with the HST and they seem to hold true and accurate up to 25 yards. there are a lot of good choices out there and I'd try a few and see which one your particular gun likes best and the one you shoot the best.
 
Jesse Heywood said:
After doing a bunch of research I decided to go with a Speer LHP. https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullets/handgun-bullets/lead-handgun-bullets/4628
Since I haven't shot anyone with it, I have to rely on the words of others on how well it works.
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That Speer 158gr SWCHP is what I use in my “general” 38 spl load. It’s very affordable and not any more expensive than the standard SWC so I figure why not? Goes on sale and rebate a lot too.

It will group 3-4” @25 yards if I do my part. Mag primer and max charge of HS6 gives it a really good pop with little to no leading. I’ve never tested terminal effects, but they certainly feel hotter than factory +p loads. The lead is dead soft and you can crease it with your thumbnail - I’m not too worried about expansion if it comes to that.
870333D0-3103-4A1C-B370-EFEB7D9AF6D3.jpeg
 
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NoirFan said:
That Speer 158gr SWCHP is what I use in my “general” 38 spl load. It’s very affordable and not any more expensive than the standard SWC so I figure why not? Goes on sale and rebate a lot too.

It will group 3-4” @25 yards if I do my part. Mag primer and max charge of HS6 gives it a really good pop with little to no leading. I’ve never tested terminal effects, but they certainly feel hotter than factory +p loads. The lead is dead soft and you can crease it with your thumbnail - I’m not too worried about expansion if it comes to that.
View attachment 879738
Click to expand...
Sounds similar to the Hornady 158 SWC-HP. They're swaged bullets.
 
The fly in the ointment is the standard pressure 38spl.

Myself I wouldn't use hp's of any weight in a snubnosed 38spl and standard pressure loads. I also wouldn't use a wc/standard pressure load either. A wc will hold it's own with soft tissue but flat out sucks if it has to go thru anything. A 148gr cast hbwc 50ft shot with a 800fps+ load.
XVsDo3b.jpg

Same thing happens with solid core doors, walls, trim, etc.

I'd be looking at a +/- 170gr fn or swc with standard pressure 38spl loads.
 
Blkhrt13 said:
It says unavailable
Click to expand...

Still shows them available on the Remington website along with their 158 gr SJHP. I bought a coupla thousand a few years back(2011) when Wisconsin legalized CWC and I bought my 637. I still have a good many left. I use Zero 125 gr JHPs for practice with it because they shoot to the same POA. In reality, any quality 125 gr SJHP/JHP by a reputable manufacturer designed primarily for SD, will do the job.
 
My J frame sights were set for 158 grain bullets. Shot placement is key and bullet performance dependent on penetration at low velocity.
Lots of practice with a J frame hurts. I found that lead 148-160 grain bullets at moderate velocity hit close to point of aim and were controllable and kept muzzle flash to a minimum.
 
Use factory box ammo for self defense!
Lafitte
Click to expand...

I agree with that for legal reasons. I actually carry Hornady critical duty in my two carry guns. It's the same stuff the local police department uses. If it's good enough for them it's good enough for me. It would be bad enough to have to be in front of the judge let alone explain why you used some wild zombie killer hand load.
 
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