Store bought self defense ammunition

Even though it's a sin, I roll my own. Most of the time I carry a 9mm with 147 or 124gr GDHP's. I have carried Hydrashocks and XTP's as well.

I carry Gold dots (45) or Ranger T/Ranger T bonded. (40)

The xtp is my choice for a hunting bullet. I've used hundreds in 10mm and in 44 mag (and XTP-Mag in 460) on big game and in dispatching beef and am always satisfied. That said, I'm satisfied because they will go through more than a hollow point should. They really dont expand worth a crap in soft tissue in my experience. Occasionally blowing right through large Appalachian white tail if they dont hit a shoulder or bone. The ones I've recovered are always through both rib cages but under the skin and not expanded all that much. Perfect for deep penetration like lead while adding some diameter that lead wouldn't have.. Like you I wouldn't be worried if they were all I had but there is most definitely better ammunition for defense from puny humans.

Technologies are like trolley cars.
If you miss one, there'll be another coming along in a few minutes.
In an SD situation, I'd hazard that with .45 ACP, more rides on the delivery system than terminal ballistics

You really owe it to yourself to read this:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...f-handloads-in-self-defense-shootings.821474/

I carry Speer Gold Dot, it’s what my department issues. It’s very accurate and functions great in most guns.

I have always been partial to Federal ammo. It goes way back to their paper trap loads.
Solid
Dependable
No gimmicks
No surprises
Their brass is generally quality that can be reloaded several times. You cant say that about every ammo company.

Gold Dot 124 +p for 9mm
Gold Dot 165 for 40S&W
Fed HST 230 for 45acp

The reason I carry gold dot in 45 and winchester in the others is that half the ammo I tried in my 220 wont fit in the magazine. If the meplat is wide then the magazine wont let it fit in a 220

I always carry factory ammo in my SD guns.

Mostly because of reasons like this:

bdickens said:

You really owe it to yourself to read this:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...f-handloads-in-self-defense-shootings.821474/

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Full disclosure...I’m just a guy who has zero engineering or biological training, and don’t work in any firearms industry...I don’t reload (because it is the one of the few things my bride of 29 Years insists I avoid). I do my own research and draw conclusions as I see them based on sources I consider valid...so take what I say with a grain of salt:

I believe there is lots of hype regarding self defense ammo and the need for ‘new technology’ in Bullet design. I believe the absolute most dangerous/effective bullet design is the flat nose hard cast bullet that will travel in a predominantly straight line through clothing, skin, flesh, and bone. I believe in them because it is largely what is used to defend against and hunt the most dangerous game on the planet. Problem with that bullet is it is in an urban environment, it goes too far in penetrating stuff, like bodies, walls, and second bodies.

So the quest has become to build a hollow point projectile that both holds together and penetrates deep enough, while not over penetrating the bad guy. And we expect it to go through clothing, bones, flesh, etc. We went the one design to do it all...a tough thing. And we judge the bullet by a protocol that has the bullet going through denim and into a gel substance. This test is much more about a consistent medium versus a real life target. It is an accepted method of controlling the results in a standard test medium, but I much prefer seeing how bullets really act as demonstrated by the “meat target” in a Paul Harrell you tube video:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6QH13V2o68zynSa0hZy9uQ/playlists

My preferred “carry and home defense” ammo are rounds I believe and have shot enough to consider reliable. That means (to me) they go bang, they cycle in my guns, and they are generally available for purchase on line.

I prefer the heavier bullets per caliber...135 grain or higher for 9MM, 165 or higher for .40, 200 or higher for .45

I have bought a good bit of and currently carry some combination of Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, and Hornady Critical Duty. I don’t shoot +P rounds in hollow points because they generally do not penetrate as deep because they open faster. I’ve had most of my SD ammo for at least 4 years.

I do carry and shoot +P flat nose FMJ and hard cast ammo when in the boonies.

If I lost all my carry JHP ammo in a fire, I would probably replace it with some quality brand and HST projectiles. I’ll give up some expansion for deeper penetration. But for now, what I have will work if I hit the target properly (accurately and enough to get desired results....stop the threat).

I do not see anything wrong with loading your own carry ammo as long as you are absolutely confident in your ability to produce reliable ammo and keep it within acceptable industry specifications.

All IMO...YMMV...

In 9mm I am using golden saber +p 124 grain bonded. It shows respectable penetration and expansion in lucky gunner tests, is listed in doctor roberts self defense acceptable list, and is reasonably priced. Generally though any of the top brands are good.

In 38 special I am partial to gold dot short barrel +p 135 grain. This load was developed specifically for NYPD J-frame use and delivers very good performance as shown in the ATK/speer technical data package. It too can be had at reasonable pricing when there are sales.

I like watching Paul Harrell videos but the center portion of his targets are nothing like human internals. Watermelon punctures extremely easily while connective tissue and membranes do not. Here’s a little test I did to put the bullets through a tougher than normal test.

https://thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/modified-gel-block-test-9mm-40s-w-45acp.860472/

GunnyUSMC said:

I carry Speer Gold Dot, it’s what my department issues. It’s very accurate and fictions great in most guns.

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I’m pretty sure it’s nonfiction, Gold Dots are good.

I use both 115 gr. and 124 gr.+P Hornady American Gunner 9mm. American Gunner uses the street proven XTP bullet.

I have a box of Hornady Custom 115 gr. XTP. When I compare the cartridges in the Custom box to the ones in the American Gunner I can not detect any difference. I have measured the rounds and even the velocity listed on the boxes are close.

What is different is the price. I think I paid about $20.00 box of 25 for the Custom. The farm supply store I buy my feed from regularly runs the American Gunner on sale. They just had a sale for $3.00 off per box. Once in a while they run it on sale for only $12.00 a box.

Anyway IMO I think it is the same ammunition just labeled differently.

SA 1911-A1 .45 ACP - 230 gr. HST
Glock G36 .45 ACP - 230 gr. +P HST
Glock G23.4 .40 - 180 gr. HST or Winchester Bonded Overrun Q4369 (PDX1)
SIG P-938 9mm Para - Std. pressure 147 gr. HST or Winchester Ranger-T series.




GR

I don't want to beat up on anyone. The sticky is a necessary read for this topic.

Here's a summary from a Federal agent buddy of mine who I've shot with and trained with, on the issue of handloads. He's quite respected.

The very idea of carrying handloads for self-defense purposes in 21st century America is ridiculous. While the liability argument may be debatable, the idea that you are going to produce handloads that will equal the quality and reliability of premium defensive or duty ammunition from one of the major US manufacturers is a nonstarter.

In days gone bye, when factory options were limited and distribution was not a click and a credit card away there was a certain logic to rolling your own for serious purposes but as they say the past is another country and they do things differently there.

...

People don’t like to hear that it’s the Indian not the arrow because they don’t like facing their own mortality. What if they miss? The fact is no matter how skilled you are the outcome is never certain and there is always an element of luck in any armed confrontation. People don’t want to face that reality so you get magic bullets, ballistic Wobblies etc as variations on the classic lucky rabbits foot.

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Hartkopf said:

I’m pretty sure it’s nonfiction, Gold Dots are good.

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I keep telling myself to proof read before posting when using the auto spell check. But if I turned off the spellcheck, no one would know what I was trying to say.

Buzznrose said:

I prefer the heavier bullets per caliber...135 grain or higher for 9MM, 165 or higher for .40, 200 or higher for .45

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I didn't mention that in my post but I also prefer heavy for caliber for SD. I found the stronger but less snappy recoil to be better for quick follow up shots with my sd guns. Not so much with my compensated race guns though, where I use lighter for caliber bullets.

GEM said:

I don't want to beat up on anyone. The sticky is a necessary read for this topic.

Here's a summary from a Federal agent buddy of mine who I've shot with and trained with, on the issue of handloads. He's quite respected.

Click to expand...

I agree. And I have for years. Not only is their ammo just as if not more consistent than the best we can make, the few premium SD bullets that are even available to buy to load cost nearly as much as loaded ammo even when it's not on sale. Removing the human error and handling goes a good way IMO

People say I've reloaded for years and never had a bad round. Yeah But Olin loads million upon million and has nearly none bad in the SD lines at least.

As far as liability, reloads/HPs/ extreme shock anti-terrorist rounds (yes they were real.) have all been used locally and other than mocking the name of the latter one it was never mentioned by LEO or by the lawyers. I'd think it would be more likely in left leaning areas sadly. The areas Politics shouldn't change the way the law is enforced but now days no one even hides it. With no I wont enforce, extradite, hold, etc. Nowdays it's a bragging point even

GunnyUSMC said:

But if I turned off the spellcheck, no one would know what I was trying to say.

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I leave mine off. Otherwise people wonder why I'm suddenly obsessed with ducks

the idea that you are going to produce handloads that will equal the quality and reliability of premium defensive or duty ammunition from one of the major US manufacturers is a nonstarter.

Click to expand...

One main premise behind handloading is just that, producing ammo that is more accurate and more reliable in your gun than mass produced factory ammo designed to fit and perform in any gun. Doesn't take a very experienced handloader to at least equal the accuracy and reliability of duty ammo with their handloads, in their gun. I know from experience, it doesn't take me much effort to equal or better any premium hunting type loads for my revolvers. I'm not going to argue the decades old arguments for and against carrying handloads for SD. I believe that is a personal choice to be made only after the individual knows and weighs all the facts....not just rumors and innuendos from internet forums. I do agree, the liability argument is debatable, but in the same token, so is his general statement that handloads will never equal factory.

buck460XVR said:

it doesn't take me much effort to equal or better any premium hunting type loads for my revolvers.

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And in hunting ammo it costs a fraction of the cost of premium hunting ammo to load the exact same bullets, since they tend to be available to buy. I dont care what anyone Carrys and if I'm shot I don't think it will bother me any more if it's a handload or a black talon. I've used very very few factory rounds while hunting. I've also carried handloads and may again someday. But at the moment premium SD ammo is fairly affordable

But the factories produce millions of reliable rounds for millions of reliable guns. The fact that our rounds have to be tailored for different guns while theirs just work is kind if the point he is making.

brutus51 said:

I won't hesitate to use my handloads with Hornady XTP's but I'm
wondering what other folks prefer in premium ammo and why.

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I like my handloads, and often carry them in my .357 guns. I dont load any .380 ir 9mm and very little .45acp, so that is factory ammo.
Based on my results from deer hunting with handguns, I prefer hollow points.
I do considerable testing of ammo, to see what works for me, and what doesnt. If you want to know what didn't, keep reading. If you would like to think you have great ammo because the box says CRITICAL DEFENSE....stop reading here.

This one wouldn't fire despite multiple attempts:

This one failed to penetrate a two liter soda bottle filled with water. I found the bullet rattling around inside the bottle when I was cleaning up after the session.

That satisfied me as to what Not to buy for my .380. They should change their name to Trivial Defense

We are talking SD and not hunting ammo. Critical Duty isn't highly rated as compared to other SD rounds.

As far as expense, while it might seem expensive to buy and test some commercial SD ammo, I would point out that if you did go to trial and your handloads became an issue, you might have to hire an expert. Current reputable firearms experts can run between $1000 to $10000 a day. That swamps saving a buck or two on 200 commercial SD rounds for carry and testing.

GEM said:

We are talking SD and not hunting ammo.

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With all due respect, I see a connection between the two as to performance.

brutus51 said:

I'm
wondering what other folks prefer in premium ammo and why.

Click to expand...

That's why.

GEM said:

As far as expense

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I dont get the impression that most of the folks here who reload their SD ammo do it because of price. (Hunting ammo is a different story) I think it's the original point you and your buddy were making that they don't share. I believe they think their ammo is better quality than the factories make. And it may be idk. I dont mind what anyone Carries and I see all the good points personally. I carry factory ammo myself and I agree that it's likely far better consistently than my own even though I went well past 100k and stopped counting my reloads many years ago.