Why are we not talking about the Ruger 5.7 Yet?

Not gonna lie if the Five-seveN scratches a technical magical mojo itch deep in the caveman part of my brain that would have been responsible for my ancestors abandoning sharp sticks for pointy rocks.

Still too much for me to really justify but nice to think about the prices shading downward.

ApacheCoTodd said:

You guys are frikken killing me!

First: I won't look twice, it's more idiotic 5.7 upon already existing idiocy!

Then, wait, what if I think of it as an alternative to my PMR?.... Maybe....

Then, BS on that noise, it's too short to capitalize on the round. NO WAY JOSE!

Then, yeah, but it's cheap and looks kinda fun!

Then, why bother if I have to hunt for rounds?

Then, maybe I think of it as a .22 Mag for the Terminator-set?

Then, nah, it'll be a fad....

Dammit all, I guess I'm screwed if I see a cheap one at the very least. I used to say many of the same things about my PMR before it was MY PMR.


Todd.

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I think most of are saying it may have a practical use for some people. For most of us it's an amusement and we have a lot of other amusements on the list to get first. If you have practical niche for it or it's at the head of your amusement list great.

I will say that it looks good. If ammo prices drop a bit, I could see burning through a few boxes at the range. Of course, we will all make up some "use" for it, and some will swear by it.

If I see one flirt at the $400 mark, I might have to grab it. The thing, like the FN, looks like the kind of gun you'd see in a 1980s Sci Fi movie set in 2020. Probably the closest we are going to get to a recoilless laser blaster for the time being.

Ammo price and availability will continue to be the Achilles heel.

Ruger will need PPU or S&B to get into the game. Yeah there's a Speer Gold Dot coming that might be cheaper than some of the FN stuff but it still won't be weekend blasting ammo.

I like that they introduced it, but I don't really know how popular the 5.7x28 really is. It's pricey ammo too, that could be a killer, online I saw a 50rd box of Federals for $20 and that's on the cheap side of things. Maybe not terrible but not good either.

USBP379 said:

Ammo price and availability will continue to be the Achilles heel.

Ruger will need PPU or S&B to get into the game. Yeah there's a Speer Gold Dot coming that might be cheaper than some of the FN stuff but it still won't be weekend blasting ammo.

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Yeah, it's not like Speer is known for producing cheap ammo. They make great stuff, but it's not something you want to shoot a lot of based on price.

I'd be surprised if Hornady doesn't come out with something.

to all the guys who say the 5.7 isn't a good round for killing, that nut who shot up fort hood back in 2009 with one sure killed a lot of folks with it. That said, I have no interest in the round. too expensive and it doesn't will a niche for me.

It's not a matter of "killing." The .22 LR is a good killer. It's been used to kill many thousands of people. That doesn't mean it can be counted upon for a consistently good terminal effect compared to 9x19, .40, .45 etc. What terminal effect can be expected from the 5.7x28 has been thoroughly examined with rigorous experimentation and evaluation by experts. I'm not going to recap it all here, but a little research will turn it all up quite easily. Even in the longer-barreled P90, the SS109 ammo penetrated an average of only a little more than 10 inches in bare 10% gelatin from 3 meters. It fails widely-accepted FBI performance standards that were set after a real-life failure to penetrate sufficiently. In other words, the ammo does not penetrate more than ammo that we know has failed. Even at 90 degrees of yaw, the 5.7 bullet displaces only about one third as much tissue as an expanded 9x19 bullet.

"The P 90 bullet doesn't even come close to matching the wounding capacity of a well-designed expanding 9x19 mm handgun bullet.... I find it extremely disturbing that FN is trying to sell the P 90 to law enforcement agencies. Law enforcement officers are often faced with armed violent criminals at close range. In that scenario a bullet capable of disrupting a significant amount of tissue is needed: one must incapacitate the criminal, a minor wound will not suffice. By no stretch of the imagination is the P 90 bullet adequate for that task -- its use would be sure to get law enforcement officers killed unnecessarily." - Dr. Martin Fackler

I don't think we have to be concerned with adoption by law enforcement at this point. None of them are ignorant enough to consider it anymore. But how does it perform for the civilian defender? No better. It makes no sense for personal protection in any scenario except possibly where there is a high probability of defense against assailants wearing soft body armor and only a handgun can be used. Otherwise, there is nothing inadequate about it for shooting paper targets, squirrels, treed coons, game on a trap line, and everything else that one would use a .22 WMR for.

labnoti said:

"The P 90 bullet doesn't even come close to matching the wounding capacity of a well-designed expanding 9x19 mm handgun bullet.... I find it extremely disturbing that FN is trying to sell the P 90 to law enforcement agencies. Law enforcement officers are often faced with armed violent criminals at close range. In that scenario a bullet capable of disrupting a significant amount of tissue is needed: one must incapacitate the criminal, a minor wound will not suffice. By no stretch of the imagination is the P 90 bullet adequate for that task -- its use would be sure to get law enforcement officers killed unnecessarily." - Dr. Martin Fackler

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Out of curiosity, Fackler is referring to the P90. The select fire and also short barrel version of this rifle/carbine/subgun.

I take it his point from the section you quoted is only about terminal ballistics. What I wonder though is if any further discussion is made about the fact it has a high rate of fire and an enormous magazine capacity as well as the ability to conceal that short barrel easily.

This makes the gun no more effective terminally shot for shot but it’s concealability, rate of fire, and magazine capacity must be taken into account on a case by case basis to judge the overall utility it has for any given LE agency.

ECVMatt said:

Here is my take on the 57: I bet Ruger has a partner for new defensive/practice ammo and we already know that a 40 grain Gold Dot is being released. I agree that expensive ammo will send this gun to CDNN before the end of summer. I also believe that another manufacturer will release a 5.7 pistol this year. Add in the CCMG Banshee and there becomes a bigger market for ammunition manufacturers. Kind of like Wolf producing 6.5 Grendel.

The industry also needs a next big thing and this tends to happen across manufacturers. The 5.7 just might be it this time around.

Ruger is pretty savvy and I am sure they put some thought into this. It will be interesting to see where this goes.

Anyways I am happy to be living in a time where so many new products are introduced each year. It at least makes life a bit more interesting.

Sorry for any mistakes and the rambling tone; I had to type this out on my tablet.

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You're so right! It is a good time that we're are in with such liberties. To be debating such things as a cartridges' relevance. Where else on God's green earth can you do that.

I agree. I was taking a terminal-ballistics evaluation of the 5.7x28 cartridge from the P90 and applying it to the FN Five7 and Ruger 57 handguns.

To evaluate the utility of the P90 package as a whole, it would need to be compared to 9mm PDW's and M4 carbines. In either case, it's severely lacking in the most relevant points. It is true that it offers a somewhat unique combination of characteristics, as do the 57 pistols. But that profile is a mostly useless one. For example, a high rate of fire: useful only in a limited set of circumstances, mostly related to military where the 5.7 round is inadequate. High rates of fire are meaningful for CIWS and for attacking ground positions from airborne platforms like the F-18, A-10, AC-130. This is because of the high rate of speed of either the target or the gun platform. For individuals in law enforcement, military, or civilian roles, high rates of fire just lighten their load faster with a greatly magnified liability for collateral damage downrange. Show me one example in a training scenario where law enforcement or civilians would greatly benefit from full-auto that isn't some silly zombie apocalypse. (By the way, I would argue that because full-auto is mostly useless, there is no reason to regulate it. It is self-regulating. In the US, it should be unregulated on principle because the government of the US has no authority to regulate it). The magazine capacity of the P90 is 50 rounds. Again, this isn't really meaningful for any law enforcement of civilian practical purpose, but if there were one, two 30-round magazines would almost certainly suffice. The concealability, which for the P90 is limited to NFA regulated versions, is good, but not better than similar size weapons in 9mm like the MPX Copperhead. To really justify the P90 as the best choice, one has to have a combination of all the requirements it meets uniquely. One would have to have a need for full-auto, and therefore a need for high-capacity, and also simultaneously a need for concealability that would rule out a version of the M4, and on top of all this, one would have to also simultaneously be content with very poor terminal ballistic performance. It's just a non-sensical requirement spec. No doubt this is why the P90 has remained very, very obscure for close to 30 years.

I will admit if Ruger introduced the 57 as a precursor to a PDW-style non-SBR, pistol that would compete with the Scorpion Micro and Copperhead, that would be interesting. Ruger has never been like that. The closest they've gotten is putting a buffer-tube stock on a mini-14 with no wood.

More regarding my earlier comment about the Ruger not being a serious duty gun:

I haven't verified it yet the sight dovetails appear to be Novak. The issue is the rear dovetail is located farther back on the slide. A standard Novak rear should fit but it'll overhang the back.

A shame since being able to slap a set of Novak suppressor sights to use in conjunction with a red dot would have been nice.

People seem to be very confused as to the purpose and the market for this gun. I think it's best to think of Ruger-57 as Ruger's PMR-30. Nobody asked for that gun either, it is large, low recoiling, has a great magazine capacity, and uses an oddball, small caliber cartridge. Seems to be selling well, to people who like these characteristics.

Ok. I'm buying. Who's got a link? Can't find anything.

Some photos taken last year that shows the penetration power of the 5.7 x 28 round.

The larger hole in the middle is from my friends ,50 BMG Barrett. at 100 yards.The smaller holes to the left and down are from my FN shooting the 5.7 x 28 FN SS 198 round at 30 feet.

The second photo shows the (circled) massive penetration of the .50 BMG in the center and the penetration of the (semi circle) 5.7 rounds.

We were all impressed. I stocked up on assorted FN brand ammo a couple years ago when CDNN had one of their bulk sales. I see the 5.7 x 28 Speer Gold Dot is going for .70 cents (plus) a round if you can find it. I like Gold Dot ammo but I'll pass on that for now.

I will be all over one of these once they are available!!

I shot my 10mm pistols, at $60 a box, during the ammo scare. Ammo price and availability don't scare me. Good job Ruger!!

zaitcev said:

People seem to be very confused as to the purpose and the market for this gun. I think it's best to think of Ruger-57 as Ruger's PMR-30. Nobody asked for that gun either, it is large, low recoiling, has a great magazine capacity, and uses an oddball, small caliber cartridge. Seems to be selling well, to people who like these characteristics.

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Uh, yeah, the PMR-30 sells well because it's under $350 brand new and a 50 rd box of .22 Mag is like, $12. There's a big difference between $12 a box of ammo and $28.

TTv2 said:

Uh, yeah, the PMR-30 sells well because it's under $350 brand new and a 50 rd box of .22 Mag is like, $12. There's a big difference between $12 a box of ammo and $28.

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Yes. Although the gun also has some uniqueness in its styling and features that attract buyers.

TTv2 said:

Uh, yeah, the PMR-30 sells well because it's under $350 brand new and a 50 rd box of .22 Mag is like, $12. There's a big difference between $12 a box of ammo and $28.

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Now they sell at that price. It wasn't too long ago people were willing to pay well over $500, and they were as rare as unicorns in the shops. And ammo was rare for it too.

kcofohio said:

Now they sell at that price. It wasn't too long ago people were willing to pay well over $500 {for PMR30 -- z}, and they were as rare as unicorns in the shops. And ammo was rare for it too.

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It's likely that Ruger counts on a similar evolution in case of 5.7 too.

The design of the gun is very appealing to me, longer barrel and adjustable sights I know the 7.62x25mm is a commie cartridge and outdated but that gun in 7.62x25mm I'd be in line to get one. Or if they introduce new cartridges to the gun also maybe.

There are several more or less favorable youtube reviews on the pistol. Ammo price was one con noted.

But if ruger can sell a bunch ammo prices will come down.

A street price in the $600 area it is not going to deter as many potential buyers as the $1100 price tag of the FN does.

Personally, I am probably not in the market as the caliber is not permitted at the range I shoot at.

Given the similarity in ballistics to the 22 mag round I wonder if ruger might come up with a 22 mag version of this gun. Ammo is about half the cost.

Now they're going for $1,100?

There isn't that much similarly.
Something like a pmr30 spits out 40gr bullets st 1,200 to 1,400fps.
A 5.7x28mm 5 inch pistol spits 40gr bullets out closer to 2,000fps.
About as accurate as saying a 22lr fired in a rifle and 22wmr shot from a rifle are pretty much the same.
Or that a 308 and 30-30 are pretty much the same.