Colt equivalent of S&W Mdl 10

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mr. Mosin

Mr. Mosin

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Messages
2,100
I have been researching this; and I have come up with two Colt's similar to the S&W Mdl 10 ; the Police Positive, and the Official Police (which may well be two names for the same gun, I don't know). Are there any other Colt's that fit this bill of equivalency ?

Also, on a side note, now that Colt is bringing back their DA wheelguns, what's the chances of them doing something like an "Office Police Classic" or some such ? 4" barrel, blued or stainless, with traditional service grips & fixed sights; chambered in .38 Spl ?
 
What fresh hell is this?

Heresy and horribleness abound.... An *equivalent*?!?

OK, I relent, call this a thread bump because, while I don''t like Colt revolvers, I am sincerely interested in the input.

Yes... YES, I said it! I don't like Colt revolvers; "Hello, my name is Todd and I'm a recovering Coltaholic.... It's been 3 years, 9 months and 7 days since I bought my last Colt."

Todd.
 
Last edited:
Mr. Mosin

The Colt Police Positive Special was the small frame Police Positive model made slightly longer to accommodate the .38 Special cartridge. It would later be made with a shorter barrel and named the Detective Special. The Official Police started out as the medium frame Army Special. The S&W Model 10 would kind of fall in between these two Colt models.

I doubt that Colt would come out with a new "Classic" version of the Official Police. Just don't think there's any real demand for a fixed sight, 4" barrel, medium frame size service revolver that might go for around $1K+ in today's market.
 
The Colt Army Special became the Colt Official Police. It's slightly larger than the Police Positive and slightly smaller than the Model 10.

Colt Army Special made in 1919:
standard.jpg

Size of the Colt Army Special (AkA Official Police) and the Police Positive:
medium800.jpg
 
Last edited:
I'd vote for Official Police. I have a couple Model 14's and a couple Officers Model's. i.e. the adjustable sight variants of the model 10 and the Official police and I'd say they are pretty close. According to numerous websites Colt was the most prevalent police sidearm prior to WW2 and the Official Police was the most common.

I'd be shocked if they brought back a full size fixed sight .38 Special. I'd guess the S&W Model 10 Classic series sales are abysmal. Most people buying a revolver want something to carry or something fun to shoot at the range. A full size, fixed sight, .38 Special can do both but isn't great at either. Colt does have the new King Cobra with fixed sights and a 3" barrel in .357 Mag. I'd guess that's as close as they come.
 
reddog81 said:
I'd vote for Official Police. I have a couple Model 14's and a couple Officers Model's. i.e. the adjustable sight variants of the model 10 and the Official police and I'd say they are pretty close. According to numerous websites Colt was the most prevalent police sidearm prior to WW2 and the Official Police was the most common.

I'd be shocked if they brought back a full size fixed sight .38 Special. I'd guess the S&W Model 10 Classic series sales are abysmal. Most people buying a revolver want something to carry or something fun to shoot at the range. A full size, fixed sight, .38 Special can do both but isn't great at either. Colt does have the new King Cobra with fixed sights and a 3" barrel in .357 Mag. I'd guess that's as close as they come.
Click to expand...

If S&W would remove the stupid internal lock; I'd gladly buy a new Mdl 10
 
Police tradein models 10, 13, 64, and 65 sell like hotcakes even though the prices keep going up. A number of people spend a lot of money sawing them off to 3" roundbutt which seems to be the sweet spot for a carry K frame.

Ca 1960, Chic Gaylord, the holster maker, was still strong on Colts. He particularly liked a Police Positive Special with 3 inch barrel and birdshead butt for concealment, but favored the Official Police for stout loads.
 
I doubt Colt will ever bring back a fixed sight 38 Special service revolver. Besides whats the point? There are many Colts and S&W model 10s listed for sale on GB some for very affordable prices if the condition is a little rough. And there is only one gun that is better than a model 10. That would be the model 15.
 
Last edited:
Howdy

Picture is worth a thousand words department:

The revolver at the top is a Colt Army Special. This model was later renamed the Official Police model because Colt was trying to sell to law enforcement agencies. Directly under it is a Police Positive Special. You can see the difference in size and the differences in frame shape. The Police Positive was originally chambered for the 38 S&W cartridge, not the longer 38 Special. The cylinder of the Police Positive was lengthened to accommodate the 38 Special round, and the frame was stretched slightly to accommodate the longer cylinder, hence the name Police Positive Special.

Below those two are a couple of 32 Police Positives on a smaller frame.

I thought I had a photo comparing the Official Police and Police Positive Special to a K frame S&W Model 10, but I am not finding it. For now, the K frame Model 10 is midway in size between the Official Police and the Police Positive Special.

po18whZFj.jpg




Here are a bunch of Police Positive Specials, with the exception of the little 22 Rimfire Police Positive Target on the far right. The term 'Positive' refers to the "Positive Lock" Colt patented in 1905 that prevented the firing pin from striking a cartridge unless the hammer had been drawn to full cock.

pmxvd7JJj.jpg



Here we are. Left to right Colt Police Positive Special, Colt Army Special (same as the Official Police), S&W K-38, and S&W Model 14-3, both built on the same size K frame as the Model 10.

pnHMj6q3j.jpg
 
Last edited:
Beautiful and illustrative pictures Driftwood. Thanks for posting them.

I have a prejudice in favor of the S&W as I first learned to fire revolvers for Uncle Sam with a battered model 15 until we transitioned to the newer Beretta. I learned on S&W's first and came to Colts fairly late.

However, I like the Official Police as it is beefier (supposedly in the day, Colt claimed that it would handle the high pressure .38-44 rounds just fine as is while S&W restricted those to the N Frames). With the shortage of new parts and people to work on them today, prudence for me keeps my loads down for the Colt to .38 std pressure loads.

My O.P. has a nice trigger pull after I thoroughly cleaned as much of the innards that I could get to without taking parts out. My model 15 edges it out on DA by a hair but I prefer the Colt single action in the Official Police to the S&W K-Frames.
 
I used to have an Official Police. It's quite a bit bigger than a K frame and won't fit in a Hunter style holster for one. I would say the Colt is more L frame sized at least
 
Driftwood Johnson said:
Howdy

Picture is worth a thousand words department:

The revolver at the top is a Colt Army Special. This model was later renamed the Official Police model because Colt was trying to sell to law enforcement agencies. Directly under it is a Police Positive Special. You can see the difference in size and the differences in frame shape. The Police Positive was originally chambered for the 38 S&W cartridge, not the longer 38 Special. The cylinder of the Police Positive was lengthened to accommodate the 38 Special round, and the frame was stretched slightly to accommodate the longer cylinder, hence the name Police Positive Special.

Below those two are a couple of 32 Police Positives on a smaller frame.

I thought I had a photo comparing the Official Police and Police Positive Special to a K frame S&W Model 10, but I am not finding it. For now, the K frame Model 10 is midway in size between the Official Police and the Police Positive Special.

View attachment 882086




Here are a bunch of Police Positive Specials, with the exception of the little 22 Rimfire Police Positive Target on the far right. The term 'Positive' refers to the "Positive Lock" Colt patented in 1905 that prevented the firing pin from striking a cartridge unless the hammer had been drawn to full cock.

View attachment 882087



Here we are. Left to right Colt Police Positive Special, Colt Army Special (same as the Official Police), S&W K-38, and S&W Model 14-3, both built on the same size K frame as the Model 10.

View attachment 882088
Click to expand...


I like those .32 Police. Cut the barrel down to 3" on something that size, they'd make a good concealment piece.
 
Mr. Mosin said:
If S&W would remove the stupid internal lock; I'd gladly buy a new Mdl 10
Click to expand...

Not to detract from the original intent of this thread, but I have 3 S&Ws with the lock and I have never had a problem with it. Also, you can remove the lock and plug it.

If you want a model 10 there are plenty of older ones to choose from as well.
 
The first revolver I ever had any real contact with was a Colt Official Police. It was issued to me by Burns Security back about 1972-73 or so. They asked if I had ever fired a gun...yes...(they did NOT ask me if I had ever fired a hand gun). You're good to go. Here's a revolver (Colt Official Police), a Sam Brown belt with a border patrol holster, six rounds of RNL ammo, a little booklet called "You and your revolver" and the instructions "Don't shoot yourself or anyone else unless you have to." That was the end of training. :)

Times have changed.

I never did fire that Colt but it was a cool gun, especially with it's fake pearl grips. I was something let me tell you. I developed just the right amount of "Barney Fife swagger."

So, I've sort of had a soft spot over the years for the Colt Official Police. It is a tad larger (Pinkertons issued me one of those later...pretty much the same deal), and a little heavier, but not enough to really notice. The only thing I didn't like the Colt (and the Model 10) are the standard grips. They're a little small for me, and back then I knew nothing of things like grip adapters or aftermarket grips. The next OP I had came with a set of Colt Target grips that were worn smooth on the right side, probably from someone resting his arm on them. The left grip looked like it had just left the factory. I bought another made in 1939 that was marked "Dept Treasury Secret Service" on the backstrap (all these were 4" guns). Almost certainly a uniformed officers gun. I later sold it to a fellow in Georgia who collected department marked Colts. To me it was just a gun. To him it was something special.

If I was going to pick one today, I think I'd look for a nice OP. Even a MK III or V. I don't think they're any better than a Model 10, but they're different. Everybody has a Model 10.

The Police Positive never appealed to me. It felt too small and dainty to me.
 
This has been a good thread, Driftwood's post being the prize winner.

I remember when gun shop folks would discuss the relative merits of Smiths and Colts ad infinitum. I fired examples of each in the different frame sizes, from "I" through "N" in S&W, and a couple of Colt frames. I once had a late production Officer's Model Match.

I had not realize how closely the Smith L frame compared in size to the Colt OM and Python until I read about in a book by Mas Ayoob.

After that a friend brought by a Smith 586 that had been carried by a police trainee until he had put in a year of service and could switch to a semi-auto. Beautiful, and smooooth.

As luck would have it, I then came across a 686+ with a five inch barrel and a tapered underlug.

I liked the lug and the length, but I thought the flutes of the seven shot cylinder looked funny. It reminded me of an old cap gun.

The guy behind the counter said "more rounds are always better". He was carrying his old Detective Special (with "that all important sixth shot") from his days with the St. Louis PD.

I bought the revolver, funny flutes not withstanding. It's for fun.

A quick call to El Paso Saddlery brought a good holster. At the time, I was still fit enough to maintain a membership in a club that allowed drawing and shooting.

Back to the subject: when I handle an L-Frame, I always ponder about fact that is the same size as a Model 1892 Colt New Army used by the US Marines in the embassy in Peking during the Boxer Rebellion, in Cuba, and in the Philippines.
 
By the way, back in the mid-sixties, I wanted a S&W Combat Masterpiece or Combat Magnum, blue, with a four inch barrel.

No way. There were none to be had.

Rumor had it that they were all being bought for military usage.

SAC was buying .38s or the Air Police, and I seem to recall India buying K-Frame revolvers in .38-200.

I settled on a Smith Model 39. Elmer liked them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Mr. Mosin
  • Locked
S&W Gas Rings (Mdl 10 and 5/686)
Replies
2
Views
383
Mr. Mosin
Mr. Mosin
Mr. Mosin
  • Locked
"Classic" Handguns
2 3
Replies
57
Views
3K
skoro
skoro
rbernie
  • Locked
Colt Official Police?
Replies
3
Views
577
dfariswheel
D
S
  • Locked
Colt Police Positive Special vs Official Police?
2
Replies
25
Views
5K
cyanide
C
Mr. Mosin
  • Locked
Current production S&W Mdl 10 vs M&P .38
Replies
18
Views
891
earlthegoat2
earlthegoat2
Back
Top