Mouse guns...Love ‘em or hate ‘em?

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I won't carry a full size service gun, did that for too many years professionally. So it's either carry a small gun or no gun.

I find an LCP fits my needs, I was carrying a G26 before I bought it, and not too often. I still don't carry all the time.

"What I have here is one of the smallest mouse guns in the world, it'll shoot clean through your t-shirt. Now did I fire 6 shots or 7? You have to ask yourself, do I feel lucky? Well do you punk, squeak up!"
 
F86FE6D3-1EF0-4A12-9E6E-FC41C37AADD2.jpeg I carry a Titan .25acp in my pocket all the time but a larger more powerful gun is on my hip. A .25 in my pocket is better than harsh words. It fits the “better than nothing” bill.
 
The smallest pistol in my rotation is a Kel-Tec P3AT (.380) that I bought in 2005 and have carried regularly ever since. (As shown below, it was in my right-rear pocket at church today)

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Depending upon the pistol, I might consider carrying a .32 (I am thinking Colt 1903 :)), but I think that I would draw the line there regarding a regular carry caliber.
 
To me, anything below a 380 is just a conversation piece.

I respectfully disagree.
I believe that a .32 was all that Gavrila Princep needed to start the first world war which was a bit more than just a conversation.

Israelis still use .22s for some special ops. Shot placement still matters a lot.
But I do agree that mid caliber or more makes a far more desirable round when combat is unavoidable.
 
I suggest that anyone who decides to choose a defensive handgun for primary carry try it out in circumstances as realistic as possible, reflective of self defense against unexpected, rapidly unfolding violent attack

If possible, try it in a defensive pistol training class that requires drawing the firearm quickly while moving, and firing effectively with a balance of speed and precision.

Think in terms of reacting to an unplanned emerging threat from any direction, drawing and firing in less than two seconds, and hitting a target the size of a small pie plate at, say, ten feet, three to five times in a second or two.

That's a lot different from facing a target that one has been planning to shoot that is seven yards away, and squeezing off shots with what one may think to constitute rapidity, and looking at group size.

Why? (1) the incident will come s a surprise; the attacker will not pose for us as a target; it will likely take more than one shot to have any reasonable likelihood of hitting something critical; and the defender will have very little time.

That exercise will make one take into account the size of the grip; barrel length; trigger pull; whether there is a safety to be disengaged with a separate movement; and recoil.

The "best" gun for those realistic scenarios will likely not be the best for defensive carry. It will likely be too big and too heavy for every day carry.

So, it becomes a matter of compromise, I carry a single column polymer 9 with four inch barrel. I can easily carry it all day, indoors and out; I can draw in quickly from OWB; and I can get by in a tough training class.

Am I confident that it will suffice? Not really. Watching Tueller exercises makes clear just how well one must detect trouble timely, and how very quickly one must react.

A gun is a tool, Marian, and the toolset comes third in priority after mindset and skillset when it comes to self-preservation.
 
I like to shoot different guns, but there is more to surviving a dynamic critical incident than shooting.

The likelihood that using a firearm will be necessary ceases to be relevant when the occasion arises.

When that does happen, speed is most likely of the essence. When one is "out shooting", one knows which firearm one is handling, and how to do it. But in concealed carry, one is not thinking about which gun one is about to reach for. Even the very short amount of time it takes to recognize which firearm one is carrying upon the first touch could prove critical.

Many people who enjoy going through the "carry rotation", for whatever reason, like to discount that factor. A rigorous scientific test might enlighten them.

I actually experienced something kind of what you are getting at. A friend and I were at the range and it came time to practice with our carry guns. I had been carrying a glock for a long time prior to this specific time frame, but had chosen to expand my carry gun line up. On this particular day, I was carrying a smith 3913. I drew from iwb, where I normally carry, sights on target quickly, pull the trigger... nothing. I had the safety on. If this had been a life or death, I would have been in trouble. I now only carry guns with the same manual of arms, and the only factor differences being their sizes and concealability for whatever I may be doing.
 
is this turning in to a tactics thread now?
No.

We have introduced the subject of how to evaluate a defensive handgun.

That's what "mouse guns" are advertised to be. They are not for bulls-eye or for the taking of game.
 
I respectfully disagree.
I believe that a .32 was all that Gavrila Princep needed to start the first world war which was a bit more than just a conversation.

Israelis still use .22s for some special ops. Shot placement still matters a lot.
But I do agree that mid caliber or more makes a far more desirable round when combat is unavoidable.

Actually the Arch Duke got whacked by a 1910 FN / Browning that was chambered in .380...according to Wikipedia anyway. Rumor had it that he wasn’t a “fun guy” and may have had it coming. The jury never came back with an opinion on Mrs. Arch Duke.
 
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Kleanbore writes:

I cannot imagine any person carrying any firearm "for fun".

..and
Is it really prudent to carry a firearm "for fun", when so much is at stake?

In which post(s) did anyone say they carry a firearm specifically "for fun."? One post to which you responded had said he carries mouseguns sometimes, and likes that they're fun to shoot. That's two separate statements. Another said he carries only guns that are fun to shoot, but never said that all the guns he finds fun to shoot get carried. I like shooting pretty much all the guns I've carried, but I don't carry all the guns I like to shoot.

I would not own a firearm so small that it would be very easy to shoot oneself in the hand with it.

Poor handling skills can make most carry guns pose such a risk. It's about how much you want to put into it. If you're not so motivated, so be it. Most of us here who do own such guns understand the risk, and practice appropriate handling techniques.
 
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Poor handling skills can make most carry guns pose such a risk.
It would seem patently obvious that it is less likely for a user under stress to shoot himself in the hand with a larger handgun a longer barrel than with an NAA .22.

t's about how much you want to put into it.
What on Earth does that mean?

Most of us here who do own such guns understand the risk, and practice appropriate handling techniques.
People under the stress of a sudden violent attack may not always react the way they do under other circumstances. An example often seen is the failure to disengage a manual safety switch.

The likelihood may be remote, the potential consequences can be extremely severe.
 
Most of us here who do own such guns understand the risk, and practice appropriate handling techniques.

Most of us here? That's an empirical question. We know that the vast majority of concealed carriers have no significant training nor do they engage in significant, realistic practice.

I've made it a point to train with practice with my 'pocket guns'. They are not the easiest to shoot. They are basically, close up, one opponent guns for most people.
 
If the latest Church shooting in Texas doesn’t change anyone’s mind then nothing probably will.

A mouse gun for me is my last chance at surviving weapon. I have no illusions about how effective it will be and the distance that makes it most likely that I will make hits that will stop a attack.

I have one mouse gun. A Seecamp LWS .32 Auto. I rarely carry it. It is either for being in places where guns are prohibited or events where a gun might be socially unacceptable. The last time I carried it was at a funeral during the summer. Hot summer weather made wearing a jacket too hot and I did not want to distract from remembering and paying respects to the deceased by any of the anti-gun people that might have been there.

The biggest reason I why I was ok with carrying it was because the risk was so low.
 
Actually the Arch Duke got whacked by a 1910 FN / Browning that was chambered in .380...according to Wikipedia anyway. Rumor had it that he wasn’t a “fun guy” and may have had it coming. The jury never came back with an opinion on Mrs. Arch Duke.

I have read that no one is certain if it was a 32 or a 380 used on the Archduke. Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source for information. And the Archduke was actually a supporter of the people of Bosnia. But as gunwriter JB Wood used to point out concerning the 32 and 380 they were as he said "Two Peas In A Pod".
 
If the latest Church shooting in Texas doesn’t change anyone’s mind then nothing probably will.

A mouse gun for me is my last chance at surviving weapon. I have no illusions about how effective it will be and the distance that makes it most likely that I will make hits that will stop a attack.

I have one mouse gun. A Seecamp LWS .32 Auto. I rarely carry it. It is either for being in places where guns are prohibited or events where a gun might be socially unacceptable. The last time I carried it was at a funeral during the summer. Hot summer weather made wearing a jacket too hot and I did not want to distract from remembering and paying respects to the deceased by any of the anti-gun people that might have been there.

The biggest reason I why I was ok with carrying it was because the risk was so low.

You are right, and the church shooting did nothing to change my mind. And not sure what you are calling a mouse gun. Mouse or Small barrel 380? Yes, I do train often with a group of 380 shooters and can tell you that some of these guys and do a lot more with a small 380 than you will see on the internet. Don't under estimate them. Yes they have limitations, no they are not the choice for past 15 yds. Not a good choice for anyone that cannot shoot them at 7 yds. They can be deadly at 7-15 yds. No one on this forum as said they are good at 25yds.Nor the best gun every made for EDC. But they are a defensive weapon and they can be a excellent weapon at that.
There is a concession in everything you do in life. I will NOT carry a big heavy weapon for my lifestyle. They do not work for me. If the Zombies do come in full force. (And they will). I will start to carry a Duty pistol. Until then, a quality Pocket gun or a quality Micro 9mm or revolver is my choice.

If other folks want to carry a large Pistol, Revolver, larger caliber etc. Let them be, that is their choice and I do not disaprove at all. But how about we just live and let live. Freedom of choice use to be a good thing. But for sure, not everywhere.
 
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The problem with 32s and 380s is not the round but the tiny guns they are chambered in. The small guns are just harder to shoot. I have owned 4 of the FIE Titan autos in 32 and 380 and in those larger sized guns I could shoot some very decent groups at 15 yards. I do pretty good with my Manhurin PP in 32acp also. I have wanted one of the Beretta model 84s or 85s for years but just never bought one. I bet those are very accurate 380 guns. But now you can easily find 9mm guns in the same size and smaller.
 
Just carry what you want, what suits your needs and works for you, and don't worry about what others think.... Everyone has their own personal views. For some of it's not a G19 sized, 9mm or higher, 10+ round capacity, in an expensive holster, only carried on the belt (not in a pocket), you're probably going to die if you have to defend yourself... Neither side will change the other side's mind.

Mouse guns have been around for decades, have been carried and used for self defense, are still, very, very popular, and aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Neither are larger guns, so there's options for everyone no matter what your personal views are...
 
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Crappy cellphone pic I just took. I carried a RM380 for a few years while at work. Now I carry a Kahr MK9. I don't think many see the MK9 as a "mouse gun", but it's about the same size as the small 380s.
 
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