BarryHalls
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Best design/platform for the .40 S&W ?
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crestoncowboy
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I've seen gen 3 22s go for tens of thousands of rounds. Our city guys have been using the same ones for years. County carried 45s then this year went to 9mm. It's not like they are any more fragile than berettas locking blocks or sigs alloy frames. The gen 4 and gen 5 may well be better, I don't doubt that at all. But the glock 22s are cheaper because of the trade ins from departments going to 9mm. Not because they are particularly fragile. There was issues with g22s running lights not cycling with worn recoil springs. Notice the one pictured has a light and has ran fine. My carry glock 27 doesn't have a light (nor rail)
That was just one day of shooting. All 40s. (Except the G20 and it was shooting 40 as well) The glock is my favorite and has many thousand rounds through it. Other than springs its had no issue. The 226 has a slight accuracy edge but I can shoot the glock as well as the 96, or USP. All are great guns. I'd be shocked if either failed before 50k rounds other than maybe a spare locking block. At 150 per 1k rounds that's 8 thousand dollars in ammo.
For pure longevity though. I believe the dual recoil system and big fat slide of the USP would last the longest. It's my least favorite of the lot.
That was just one day of shooting. All 40s. (Except the G20 and it was shooting 40 as well) The glock is my favorite and has many thousand rounds through it. Other than springs its had no issue. The 226 has a slight accuracy edge but I can shoot the glock as well as the 96, or USP. All are great guns. I'd be shocked if either failed before 50k rounds other than maybe a spare locking block. At 150 per 1k rounds that's 8 thousand dollars in ammo.
For pure longevity though. I believe the dual recoil system and big fat slide of the USP would last the longest. It's my least favorite of the lot.
I went a different direction with my most recently purchased .40. Not at all snappy or uncomfortable to shoot.
Aside from that, I think I have every size of Glock in the caliber except the G24. I have a USP and a wide-body 1911. Maybe a couple others I’m not thinking of.
Or since you already have a couple handguns, there are a few options out there for a .40 caliber carbine.
Aside from that, I think I have every size of Glock in the caliber except the G24. I have a USP and a wide-body 1911. Maybe a couple others I’m not thinking of.
Or since you already have a couple handguns, there are a few options out there for a .40 caliber carbine.
BarryHalls
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No doubt.
I did a detail strip and clean on a gen3 22 that and 10,000+ rounds in, and excluding a ton of handling on the exterior, I'd call it "just-broken-in". I recommend that he put in a new recoil spring for a smoother feel shooting, but having shot it, I can. Say it was manageable.
The dual spring on the gen4s is just much more pleasant.
OP
OP
lionking
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Tested the Beretta 96 today standing two handed, I like it and having also shot a couple hundred rounds out of my SIG 226 and another Beretta 92 in 9mm today, ( started at 10 am ended shooting at 2 pm) I gotta say I like the Beretta 96 and after doing these test targets at 10 yards I think I may not put that adjustable rear sight on because it is shooting pretty dead on now, still have to try it at 15 and 25 yards though.
That said I still plan on getting one more .40, which after shooting my Springfield XDM 5.25 in .45 today, am thinking of getting one in .40 or go for a nice used USP.
That said I still plan on getting one more .40, which after shooting my Springfield XDM 5.25 in .45 today, am thinking of getting one in .40 or go for a nice used USP.
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Anchorite
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I favor steel - I know the benefits of manufacturing polymer (cost), but at the end of the day I gotta think steel is still where longevity is. As far as “platform,” take your pick.
sparkyv
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What? No love for the BHP? I know why...it BITES!jeff-10
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I have owned quite a few 40's over the years. Currently my favorite is the 96A1. Has it all for me, durability, accuracy and ergonomics. I regularly shoot a S&W 29 so my perspective on recoil may be different than others. Still i teach people to shoot on the 96A1 since consider it soft shooting. Honorable mention to the Glock 23, it really is the best Glock.
First 40 was a BHP years ago, it was utter trash. First gun I ever got rid of.
First 40 was a BHP years ago, it was utter trash. First gun I ever got rid of.
Trey Veston
Member
My vote went to "OTHER" and would be the S&W M&P40. I have a fullsize and two compact 1.0s and the M&P was designed for the .40 S&W. I've owned probably a dozen pistols in .40 S&W with my first being a Gen 3 Glock 22, then a Beretta 96D, then a 24C, XDs, XDS, more Glocks, M&Ps, etc.
M&Ps aren't the most accurate or softest shooting; both honors go to the Beretta, but they seem to be as good as the Gen 4 Glocks at a much better price.
M&Ps aren't the most accurate or softest shooting; both honors go to the Beretta, but they seem to be as good as the Gen 4 Glocks at a much better price.
M&P (not Shield) was designed from the ground up as a .40 S&W.
That's why I voted "Other" in the survey.
There's one big sport (USPSA) with one big division (Limited) that puts a huge premium on shooting .40.* The vast majority of people who are serious USPSA Limited competitors pick a 2011 (double-stack 1911-ish thing). A few others pick steel-framed, SAO CZ's or Tanfoglios. (The few serious guys who run Glocks generally stick big frameweights on the front.) The .40 is a cartridge that definitely benefits from having a lot of gun to hang onto and a good bit of weight.
If you're asking what platform will shoot the best, those are the answers. If some other platform shot as well or better, serious competitors would use it. They don't.
On the other hand, none of those things are going on sale, so if the question is what is the best cheap .40 platform... I don't know.
* It gets scored more points on non-centered hits than 9mm while maximizing capacity versus, say, .45.
If you're asking what platform will shoot the best, those are the answers. If some other platform shot as well or better, serious competitors would use it. They don't.
On the other hand, none of those things are going on sale, so if the question is what is the best cheap .40 platform... I don't know.
* It gets scored more points on non-centered hits than 9mm while maximizing capacity versus, say, .45.
Anchorite
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Interesting. I did not know that. Can you point to something that confirms that? I’m curious.....given that there are documented cases of Kbs with the 40, I should look into the M&P for instances of a KB. Seems a polymer pistol that suffers a Kb is just destroyed....I wonder how the M&P would fare if it was “designed from the ground up” as a .40.
crestoncowboy
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Depends on the KB. A squib load will generally ruin the top end/ barrel regardless of the gun. As far as a case rupture, yeah the poly guns will usually take damage where steel wont. I dont worry any more about KB in 40 than any other round and I shoot many thousand a year on my slowest years.
Even if the gun was "designed around the 40" if the case ruptures the gas goes down into the mag well. The weakest point of the case due to the feed ramp. No gun was designed to have that gas vent through the mag and magwell. Usually the mag catch fails and the mag falls and the gas goes on out. Sometimes the mag catch holds and the grip fails and breaks at the weakest point, usually the mag catch hole. I've seen no gun in the last 20 years that didn't have pretty good support.
Even if the gun was "designed around the 40" if the case ruptures the gas goes down into the mag well. The weakest point of the case due to the feed ramp. No gun was designed to have that gas vent through the mag and magwell. Usually the mag catch fails and the mag falls and the gas goes on out. Sometimes the mag catch holds and the grip fails and breaks at the weakest point, usually the mag catch hole. I've seen no gun in the last 20 years that didn't have pretty good support.
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rbernie
Contributing Member
The Ruger SR40 was / is my favorite pistol for the chambering. Honorable mention goes to my Kimber Custom II in 40S&W, and then the P226, and then the CZ75. The M&P (full-size) may have been designed around the dimensions of the 40S&W, but its trigger and shootability are not up the SR40 standard. The BHP in 40S&W was neither fun nor robust, and the Glock (my current range mule, incidentally) is far snappier than the SR40. I have no experience with the Beretta 96 or USP or full-size S&W Gen3s in 40S&W.
JTQ
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Unless somebody here works for S&W and can show internal memo's, something like this from Hilton Yam will have to suffice.
https://www.military.com/kitup/2013/02/hilton-yam-10-8-performance-glock.html
The .40 S&W round isn't that old. There are an awful lot of folks on the forum that were adults, and a lot were probably in LE, when the .40 S&W was introduced, so a lot of these comments will be from personal experience, or at the very least following the gun world during their lives.
JTQ
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There is a difference between a gun being destroyed with a ka-boom vs long term wear and tear or function issues with a gun not particularly designed for a cartridge.
Per the comments I quoted above from Hilton Yam, he's a Glock guy, but until the Gen 4 Glock's he preferred the M&P in .40 S&W since the gun was optimized for the round. Once the Gen 4 was introduced, he felt the G22/23/35 were the equals of the equivalent S&W models. Pick the one you prefer.
There's no doubt that is true (the S&W M&P polystriker being designed for .40). S&W targets LE agencies as their core business. At the time, the LE agencies were switching to .40 in great numbers, and a lot of guns built around the 9mm and then asked to deal with .40 wear weren't doing great with it. S&W built the .40 S&W as the "base" of the M&P line, and then stuck 9mm parts in it to make a 9mm version. In fact, they had problems with accuracy in the early 9mm M&P's because they didn't get the unlocking geometry just right on that.
None of that has anything to do with "kabooms," really. Although some early .40's just didn't have enough chamber support and weak brass or an overload round would blow out the brass and kaboom the gun, that wasn't really the issue in LE. They were just breaking slide stops and locking blocks and frames and such. The .40 does put substantially more recoil force on things like barrels and slides and locking/pivoting mechanisms than 9mm. Newton's 3rd law and all that.
HPCadm17
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I personally dig the SW 4006 and SIG P229 (not an option in poll?). The 4006 is basically a variation of the 5906 which was not initially designed for .40 but still kicks butt. I understand the P229 was designed with .40 and 357SIG in mind. Hard to beat, IMHO.
That's about as good as you're going to get in written form, because you'll likely never get a factory rep to admit to it. It was pretty common knowledge among folks who made aftermarket parts for the M&P.
It took a while, but Apex Tactical Specialties finally introduced a 9mm barrel that addressed the issues of running a 9mm in the M&P 1.0...it was the timing of the unlocking of the barrel that caused accuracy issues
ThomasT
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Aim Surplus has the Gen 4 Glocks for $300. Sounds like a deal to me.
https://aimsurplus.com/leo-trade-in-glock-22-gen-4-40s-w-handgun/
Supply and demand. A lot of police trade in Glock 40s. Most police agencies didn’t use the 17/19 so not too many trade in. That being said, nothing wrong with doing a barrel swap.
BarryHalls
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You are correct. I didn't mean to be misleading. The market is also flush with used 40s as most departments transition from the 40 to the 9s.
BarryHalls
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The gen 4 22 is kind of a sweetheart. I wouldn't mind one at that price.
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