9mm 13 Rd or 45 8rd

94045 said:

I've already admitted to carrying an LCP .380 at times for the same reason. I'm afraid they wouldn't take a rain check while I ran home.

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Meh, I carried a .380... first an AMT DAO, and then a Colt Government .380 for about 10 years prior to moving to the Kahr. The .380 isn't a powerhouse, for sure, but it's way above empty hand defense.

I was at work one morning when a client employee started talking smack about the fact that I was carrying a 9mm. He blah-blahblahed for a while than he asked "Why a nine?"

Hand to God I did not plan this but my mouth opened and "Because I don't have male inadequacy issues?" just popped out.

Trunk Monkey said:

I was at work one morning when a client employee started talking smack about the fact that I was carrying a 9mm. He blah-blahblahed for a while than he asked "Why a nine?"

Hand to God I did not plan this but my mouth opened and "Because I don't have male inadequacy issues?" just popped out.

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Whimpering as I crawl back under the porch now....

94045 said:

Whimpering as I crawl back under the porch now....

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It gets better.

When I got home that day I told the story to a friend of mine. I no sooner got done when her boyfriend showed up. She asked him what he preferred and of course he answered ".45". I wonder if she ever told him why she started laughing

WrongHanded said:

I agree. You point is well taken. But I think it misses the original intention of me bringing up the Miami-Dade shootout. Which was simple that it is one of probably very few situations where we can even speculate on whether a larger caliber would have made a difference.

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I was more piggy backing off your post than trying to go against it.

I had read an article a while back from a FBI Agent that was in their armory unit (whatever unit that issues guns) back then. He stated the round they used during the 86 Miami shootout was chosen because it showed great expansion at the cost of lower penetration. Their theory at the time was you would be shooting someone facing you so good penetration wasn't considered.

Would a deeper penetrating round made a difference in that shootout? Probably. But I dont think it would have made a huge one.

GaryinVirginia said:

Which would be your choice to conceal. Size is the same.

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Well I carry my P09 which holds 19+1, and sometimes goofing around in the woods I carry my XD which is 13+1, and if I really need to be sneaky I carry my PPS which is 8+1. It all depends on your intentions. And, I usually carry my J-frame which is 5+0 on my ankle.

9mm

C-grunt said:

I was more piggy backing off your post than trying to go against it.

I had read an article a while back from a FBI Agent that was in their armory unit (whatever unit that issues guns) back then. He stated the round they used during the 86 Miami shootout was chosen because it showed great expansion at the cost of lower penetration. Their theory at the time was you would be shooting someone facing you so good penetration wasn't considered.

Would a deeper penetrating round made a difference in that shootout? Probably. But I dont think it would have made a huge one.

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I had read something similar. That they were worried about collateral damage in a multiple agent situation so wanted around 11" of penetration. I'm thinking don't they teach situational allowance. I mean it's not like you can pretend nobody ever misses the intended target.

Spats McGee said:

But does a 9mm Shield allow for faster follow-up shots compared to an all-steel 1911? I haven't timed it, but I'm not sure it does. (If anyone has timed it, I'd be curious as to the results.) I must admit that I do prefer the .45 1911 recoil

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Can't speak to the shield specifically but I can say I timed pretty close (.25-.28 splits) with my Glock 26 at ten yards to my steel .45 1911s, and I felt slower with my 365 than my 26.

Individual drills I'm faster with my 9mm 1911 (usually around .2-.25) and find it easier to keep tighter groups at speed (less absolute focus required), yet last time I ran the two 1911s (lightweight 9mm CCO vs steel commander) on the FBI qual course of fire my overall accuracy and time were remarkably similar, I think only a few seconds slower on the .45 over 50 rounds, and slower on the Glock 26 than either, but my Glock 19x was faster.

I seem to shoot my Gen 5 Glock 19 roughly the same as my 9mm 1911, but like the 1911 more for asthetic and comfort reasons, though the Glock does carry 6 more rounds.

So... It depends?

I'm saving up for a Wilson Carry Comp Compact that, by all accounts, cuts the .45 muzzle flip to 9mmish levels, so I'm hoping to cut that gap further.

Same weight as my VBob, short grip and I already carry my commander in a full size holster for balance reasons, so it should be a perfect fit.

9mm is my choice.

Charlie98 said:

Meh, I carried a .380... first an AMT DAO, and then a Colt Government .380 for about 10 years prior to moving to the Kahr. The .380 isn't a powerhouse, for sure, but it's way above empty hand defense.

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I think 380 is pretty underrated as a defensive round, and it's such a big advantage to have a pistol you can literally stuff in a pocket and take anywhere without any effort pretty much regardless of what you're wearing. I usually carry a 9mm but I carry my 380 quite a bit too just because its so easy and discrete.

IdaD said:

I think 380 is pretty underrated as a defensive round, and it's such a big advantage to have a pistol you can literally stuff in a pocket and take anywhere without any effort pretty much regardless of what you're wearing. I usually carry a 9mm but I carry my 380 quite a bit too just because its so easy and discrete.

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My Lil' Sister shoots a .380 EZ and while it's not what you had in mind it's what she shoots best. If you shoot a 238 better than a 938 no question which you should carry.

Although I carried issued 9's, .40's and .45's at various times for work, when I worked as a firearms instructor on our range I always included the other calibers in my own training and trigger time. Partly it was to remain familiar with the other calibers/weapons used among our folks, for duty & off-duty, but also to maintain my own skillset.

Basically, the better I could shoot .40 & .45 - meaning recoil management, recovery time for subsequent shots fired and accuracy - the better I could shoot my 9's.

I've carried 45 ACP handguns for so long now I better not quit. My old hands, elbows, shoulders, and brain wouldn't know what to do with a high capacity 9mm. It's so ingrained in my brain, I would be dropping half full 9mm magazines after 7 or 8 shots fired. LOL

Too old to change and too set in my ways to want to,
Dave

Hartkopf said:

I'm a fan of the 45 but in this case, I'll take the 9mm with 13 rounds. Too many bad guys with high capacity mags these days.

If the choices were 13 rounds of 45 vs 15 rounds of 9mm, I would take the 45.

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Also there are too many bad guys with their pants falling down, that travel in herds.
I take capacity over caliber.

94045 said:

I had read something similar. That they were worried about collateral damage in a multiple agent situation so wanted around 11" of penetration. I'm thinking don't they teach situational allowance. I mean it's not like you can pretend nobody ever misses the intended target.

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Pretty sure ammo that penetrated better would have ended that shootout almost before it began.

For the OP, I carry a smaller arm for concealed carry that either of those. They are too big and I would end up leaving them at home. A .22 pocket pistol actually in your pocket beats the .45 you didn't bring with you.

I prefer my Combat Commander 8+1 .45acp to my higher capacity G19 9mm. Its a bit heavier, but I have no problem with the weight, or concealing the weapon. I always have two extra 8rd mags on me, and perhaps one or two more - depending on the time of year, might have a couple more in a jacket/coat pocket. If choosing between the G23 and G19, I'd still prefer the larger rounds coming out of the .40S&W. and would go with the G23. Not to say the G19 wouldn't get the job done, I just prefer the larger round.

45 ACP is more powerful than 9x19mm. This may make a difference in a shot you have to take, but it may not matter either. Jello testing is for comparative purposes and does not duplicate real life damage. It's a tool to help you make a decision. Remember, the bullets are tuned to expand within a certain velocity window. The odds of expansion decrease as friction decreases velocity over distance. Once they start expanding, then they're going to lose velocity and stop. The wound channels may or may not be of the same length and there is no guarantee of expansion. It is hard to determine odds. For example, maybe the 9mm won't make it to the heart through the arm, but the 45 will, or vice-versa. Again, nothing is concrete.

Since you're likely talking about a Browning Hi-Power versus a 1911, reliability is paramount. I have found the Hi Power to be far more reliable than any of my expensive 1911's. Therefore, if this is the case, I'd still choose the 9mm Hi Power over the 1911 in 45 ACP. If it were a choice between a SIG P220 SAO and a Hi Power, I'd just buy and carry both.

Years ago I would’ve said 45 all the way. Now capacity seems a bit more important to me where multiple attackers are a real possibility.

In the woods, give me something in 40 caliber or larger, or something like 38 Super or 357.

9mm