Titanium cylinders
- Thread starter SteadyD
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SteadyD
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Also, after about 100 rounds I had a cylinder full of spent cases that was incredibly hard to extract. After I got them out I used a caliber sized q tip in each chamber and then resumed shooting without any issues. Are titanium cylinders more prone to this?
ancientnoob
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I use the pencil eraser technique. I also use Ballistol spray to clean the whole firearm. I have only had issues getting the cases of my friend's hot loaded 357 brass out after shooting .38 spl before hand. I don't think there is anything particular about the titanium cylinder that causes this. The only thing I have ever heard is that you don't want to use bullet weights of less than 120 grains at magnum pressures. For 38spl you can use whatever bullet weight you want. 77gr standard pressure 38 spl ARX is interesting out of the 327.
ancientnoob
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I would agree.
243winxb
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Hoppe’s No. 9 Gun Bore Cleaner on a patch.
No extraction issues with a 38+P m337pd. How the face of the cylinder is cleaned is an issue.
See photos https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/s-w-titanium-cylinder-questions.836270/
it is my belief that some Factory ammo made damage a titanium cylinders face. Unburnt powder or powder residue for some brands/types of ammo.
No extraction issues with a 38+P m337pd. How the face of the cylinder is cleaned is an issue.
See photos https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/s-w-titanium-cylinder-questions.836270/
it is my belief that some Factory ammo made damage a titanium cylinders face. Unburnt powder or powder residue for some brands/types of ammo.
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I have read not to use ammonia-based solvents on Titanium cylinders. But Ballistol, Hoppes #9, Break-Free CLP, and stuff like MPro 7 and Breakthrough should all work fine. Ammonia-based solvents are better as a bore cleaner for copper and lead fouling that don't typically occur in the cylinder. Cylinders usually have carbon fouling. I like to use stuff like MPro 7 or Breakthrough for carbon fouling rather than oil-based cleaners like Breakfree. However, they will emulsify or wash out any oil in the spindle around the ejector rod and yoke/crane.
Larry Potterfield made a how-to video on revolver cleaning where he says he likes to remove the cylinder for regular cleaning. I've since adopted that practice. It's only one screw and it makes cleaning both the cylinder and frame easier (I also remove wood grips to avoid damage). It especially makes scrubbing the burn rings on the cylinder face easier. I only use a nylon or bronze brush. But disassembling the ejector to re-lubricate it afterward begins to make the whole process tedious. Because of that, I am more likely to use a cleaner that won't strip lubrication, like Breakfree, Ballistol, or One Shot. If I do use MPro 7, it will be on a damp patch so it stays within the chambers only.
Titanium is known to have stickier extraction than carbon or stainless steel. S&W uses Titanium in carry guns like the snub-nosed N-frame 327 and J-frame 340 PD, and even the 329 PD to reduce carry weight for everyday concealed carry or bear defense. They also use Titanium cylinders in competition guns like the 929 to reduce rotational inertia -- but the extraction issue can become a problem in competition where reloads happen often (more often than in bear defense). Ruger explicitly cited this as the reason they did not make the Super GP-100's cylinder Titanium and instead used LCR-style fluting to reduce rotational inertia.
In my personal experience with Titanium (340 PD), I found that lubrication helped extraction briefly, but after about three cylinders, a light coat of oil no longer helped. High-pressure ammo could stick severely and require a range rod (squib rod) to push the brass out. I learned the cylinder needed to be well-supported and not by the yoke and so should be removed from the yoke before forcing the brass out with the rod or else the scandium yoke could be bent. For carry, I would use nickel-plated brass and forgo moon-clips to avoid total failure of extraction or a total inability to load the gun if a case head is cut leaving the cut shell in the chamber. Ultimately, my Titanium cylinder exploded and I'm no longer interested in them.
Larry Potterfield made a how-to video on revolver cleaning where he says he likes to remove the cylinder for regular cleaning. I've since adopted that practice. It's only one screw and it makes cleaning both the cylinder and frame easier (I also remove wood grips to avoid damage). It especially makes scrubbing the burn rings on the cylinder face easier. I only use a nylon or bronze brush. But disassembling the ejector to re-lubricate it afterward begins to make the whole process tedious. Because of that, I am more likely to use a cleaner that won't strip lubrication, like Breakfree, Ballistol, or One Shot. If I do use MPro 7, it will be on a damp patch so it stays within the chambers only.
Titanium is known to have stickier extraction than carbon or stainless steel. S&W uses Titanium in carry guns like the snub-nosed N-frame 327 and J-frame 340 PD, and even the 329 PD to reduce carry weight for everyday concealed carry or bear defense. They also use Titanium cylinders in competition guns like the 929 to reduce rotational inertia -- but the extraction issue can become a problem in competition where reloads happen often (more often than in bear defense). Ruger explicitly cited this as the reason they did not make the Super GP-100's cylinder Titanium and instead used LCR-style fluting to reduce rotational inertia.
In my personal experience with Titanium (340 PD), I found that lubrication helped extraction briefly, but after about three cylinders, a light coat of oil no longer helped. High-pressure ammo could stick severely and require a range rod (squib rod) to push the brass out. I learned the cylinder needed to be well-supported and not by the yoke and so should be removed from the yoke before forcing the brass out with the rod or else the scandium yoke could be bent. For carry, I would use nickel-plated brass and forgo moon-clips to avoid total failure of extraction or a total inability to load the gun if a case head is cut leaving the cut shell in the chamber. Ultimately, my Titanium cylinder exploded and I'm no longer interested in them.
edwardware
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The same way I clean any other cylinder: a toothbrush for the back, a brass bore brush for the chambers, a brass wire brush for the front, and CLP or some other oil to wipe.
I can't imagine why you'd need more than oil and gentle mechanical cleaning on a cylinder.
I believe the THR Terms and Conditions require pictures and an explanation at this point!
bassjam
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For the most part I treated the titanium cylinder on my S&W 337 the same as a steel one, cleaning with a patch and Hoppe's #9, CLP, and MPro 7. The only difference is on a steel cylinder I'll sometimes use a brass bore brush to clean each chamber, but with the titanium cylinder I stuck with a nylon brush.
Hoppes #9 isn't specific enough since it's not just a product but a brand of lots of products. What I know is that S&W has advised against anything abrasive. I believe they have also advised against cleaners containing ammonia. The MSDS for Hoppes #9 Bore Solvent indicates it contains ammonium hydroxide. If you're not sure about any other Hoppes #9 product, check it out here:
http://www.hoppes.com/global/customer-service/sds-information
We know that the traditional Hoppes #9 product is mostly kerosene and there is no reason to be concerned if a Ti cylinder was cleaned with it once. What I would be more concerned about would be the strong ammonia copper solvent bore cleaners. If you want a recommended cleaner going forward, avoid those with ammonia. Use Hoppes Elite for example, or Breakfree, or Ballistol etc.
http://www.hoppes.com/global/customer-service/sds-information
We know that the traditional Hoppes #9 product is mostly kerosene and there is no reason to be concerned if a Ti cylinder was cleaned with it once. What I would be more concerned about would be the strong ammonia copper solvent bore cleaners. If you want a recommended cleaner going forward, avoid those with ammonia. Use Hoppes Elite for example, or Breakfree, or Ballistol etc.
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beag_nut
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Yeah, if one looks at the SDS for Hoppe's #9 there is an ammonium component. When I clean my revolvers after using jacketed bullets, with Hoppe's, the blue-green color of copper sulfate appears on the patches, indicating that copper fouling is being removed. Since I don't have titanium cylinders I don't care, but others with such cylinders may consider an alternative.
ancientnoob
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No solvent required. Ballistol works for everything and a pencil eraser takes care of the rest.
crestoncowboy
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I've used hoppes 9 gun bore cleaner and breakfree on both my 329 pd cylinders for years and they are fine. Doesn't make it the right thing to do though.
Breakfree CLP, Ballistol, Hoppes Elite, MPro7, Breakthrough, Slip 2000 725, Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber, Rem Action Cleaner. Any of those would work fine. The first two don't strip lubrication but they're weaker on carbon fouling. Some of the others remove carbon better but require re-lubrication afterward. Buy them all and shoot enough that you can do a comparison report.
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