rskent
Member
Ding! Ding! Ding! The golden nugget award goes to mavracer.
Bit of a rant... Mouse Guns
- Thread starter Michael Tinker Pearce
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Ding! Ding! Ding! The golden nugget award goes to mavracer.
whughett
Member
Not if those tiny holes were in a heart or lung. There is a reason one holds on center of mass.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Lung shot. You mean like the lung shot Platt took in the FBI shootout in 1986. He was shot in the lung early in the fight while exiting his vehicle and managed to harm and kill several FBI agents after that time. People are frequently shot in the lung and still manage to fight. It may EVENTUALLY stop them, or they may live more than long enough to put down their threat and seek medical attention and survive.
A person shot in the heart with the heart immediately stopping to function can still be viable for anywhere from a few seconds or a minute or so. That is enough time for that person to still kill you, particularly if he doesn't even realize he is shot.
AK103K
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If you say so. Most I know arent all that good with their smaller guns up close. Ive never seen anyone practicing with them from how they carry them, so its hard to say. Id have to see how you do to tell.
The pattern is where the rounds went. Thats about where the switch is, and actually, its on the other side you cant see. All part of that anatomy thing, ya know.
And youre right, they are just holes in paper, but its how they got there, and how repeatable you are at doing that, thats what you arent seeing.
Most of those started with the gun either in a holster or at a SUL low ready, and many were shot on the move, some with sights, some without. I try my best to practice as I would have to shoot. Im not normally a bullseye or group shooter, although groups do appear, no matter what youre doing, if youre consistent in what you do.
Shoot whatever you want. I could care less. I would only hope, youre as good as you say, because I really dont like the idea of all these people just throwing a gun in their pockets, and going on their merry way, thinking they are good to go, and they cant shoot for ****, even when they try to do so shooting slow at a static target up close. I would prefer if you carry something, youre at least competent with it, and I dont have to worry about you hitting me downrange, when you cut loose.
I have a number of those "mouse guns" and I practice with them the same as I do my full size guns when I do. I practice with a lot of things on a pretty regular basis, just to stay on top of them, even if I havent carried or used one on a regular basis for years. That first pic above with the NAA Mini, was shot from my pocket and all five rounds were fired as hard as I could go each time, at about 5 yards. And just an FYI, that was slower to do, than if I did it with my 17 from under my shirt.
What does bother me is, I hear all these people talk about carrying guns, and more often than not, its guns like whats being discussed here, and I never hear very much about how or how often they are practicing with them from how they carry them, if they really practice at all.
My personal experience, with the people I know who have permits and do carry on some sort of regular basis, is only a couple practice in any kind of realistic way, on a weekly or biweekly basis. Many havent shot the guns they have or carrry, since they bought them (they actually told me that), and even then, it was just to see if they worked. Id be willing to bet, the former, isnt the norm for most, and that latter, is probably more accurate, especially for those who arent "gun people".
I generally take people at their word, but it sure is funny how everyone is a crack shot, right up to the point you hand them a gun, and ask them to show you, and then the excuses begin.
It happens, but luck is not a sign of skill.
whatnickname
Member
Really? I bet if you set up a survey on THR you would find a healthy percentage of the membership sees the matter quite differently. So how about it? Want to see how others view this issue?
whughett
Member
Lord Lord, I do forget about all the experts we have here in the The High Road.
So: To sum up.
Carry a big gun.
Shoot only for the head.
Keep a little gun in your sock.
Use little gun, when bad guy survives, cause the head is a small target.
Empty little gun in heart and lungs.
Pull out machete and finish the job when little gun doesn’t get the job done.
Big Sigh: Some days it just doesn’t pay to get out of bed.
So: To sum up.
Carry a big gun.
Shoot only for the head.
Keep a little gun in your sock.
Use little gun, when bad guy survives, cause the head is a small target.
Empty little gun in heart and lungs.
Pull out machete and finish the job when little gun doesn’t get the job done.
Big Sigh: Some days it just doesn’t pay to get out of bed.
Tallball
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Twice I have had to "brandish" a handgun for SD.
The first time the guy gave up on his idea of kidnapping my wife and ran away.
The second time the guy was so intoxicated that he didn't even hear me yelling at him as he tried to assault my female neighbor. I shot a round of 357 into the mud at the base of a tree and told him that the next one was for him. THAT got his attention and he ran away.
When we were young and stupid, my very large friend got into an argument over a parking place with some guy in the parking lot of (surprise here) a bar. The guy pulled out a small pistol. My (drunken) friend said, "Who are you going to hurt with a cap gun?" The guy got frustrated and fired it into the air. My friend taunted him. "Go on, shoot more caps." The guy got back into his car cursing and burned rubber out of there. I (drunkenly) walked up towards the end of all this. My friend asked, "Why did he wave a cap gun at me?'
I told him, "It was a 25 or something. See the brass on the ground over there?"
Wow, my friend was extremely surprised. That was about 30 years ago, and he's been much less confrontational with people ever since.
A 25 is better than nothing, that's for sure. Today I carried my LCP in the breast pocket of a padded flannel shirt. I didn't feel like toting a Desert Eagle, and it seems like enough to carry to the local grocery store.
I live in a small town in Texas. If there is a stranger in town, I think they will choose to try to mug someone else other than the 6'6" white trash guy. If they do try that, they will find that I can draw an LCP or LCR quickly for a middle-aged person. If someone wants to start an "active shooting incident" at a local store or gathering, they will realize, in the afterlife, that almost everyone around here is armed most of the time. Among the ubiquitous 38's and 9mm's, there will probably be a few 25's dug out of them as well.
The first time the guy gave up on his idea of kidnapping my wife and ran away.
The second time the guy was so intoxicated that he didn't even hear me yelling at him as he tried to assault my female neighbor. I shot a round of 357 into the mud at the base of a tree and told him that the next one was for him. THAT got his attention and he ran away.
When we were young and stupid, my very large friend got into an argument over a parking place with some guy in the parking lot of (surprise here) a bar. The guy pulled out a small pistol. My (drunken) friend said, "Who are you going to hurt with a cap gun?" The guy got frustrated and fired it into the air. My friend taunted him. "Go on, shoot more caps." The guy got back into his car cursing and burned rubber out of there. I (drunkenly) walked up towards the end of all this. My friend asked, "Why did he wave a cap gun at me?'
I told him, "It was a 25 or something. See the brass on the ground over there?"
Wow, my friend was extremely surprised. That was about 30 years ago, and he's been much less confrontational with people ever since.
A 25 is better than nothing, that's for sure. Today I carried my LCP in the breast pocket of a padded flannel shirt. I didn't feel like toting a Desert Eagle, and it seems like enough to carry to the local grocery store.
I live in a small town in Texas. If there is a stranger in town, I think they will choose to try to mug someone else other than the 6'6" white trash guy. If they do try that, they will find that I can draw an LCP or LCR quickly for a middle-aged person. If someone wants to start an "active shooting incident" at a local store or gathering, they will realize, in the afterlife, that almost everyone around here is armed most of the time. Among the ubiquitous 38's and 9mm's, there will probably be a few 25's dug out of them as well.
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AK103K
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And the most important part of the equation, no matter what it is you carry or use, is still left out of the angry rambling.
You still dont get it, do you?
whughett
Member
Does anybody.
I'm sorry but after watching animals run for 10 to 15 seconds after having their heart and lungs turned to cherry Jello by a high powered rifle AND knowing how many rounds can be shot in 10 to 15 seconds. I stand by my statement.
Quite a few here have a pretty good grasp on the equation. Some have even solved it before.
Thing is the equation has many variables but only 2 that can be controlled by you the defender.
The rest will be in the hands of the aggressor.
milemaker13
Member
There is no reason to be feel inadequate, ashamed or embarrassed about choosing a .25 or similar dainty gun as a primary EDC.
If that is your preference I say, You Go Girl. It's more effective than your purse
I don't know... that purse in the clip looked pretty effective!!
OneFreeTexan
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Two things,,,,my usual reply,,,,,,wasn’t the record grizzly (or whatever kind of bear it was ) shot by an Eskimo woman with a 22....dropped it on the first shot....which happened to be a head shot.
Second....Recently helped a young lady (heck, now they are all young to me), get used to her new handgun..Had her practice with one of those full body targets. It was shooting low, so all ten shots went right into the groin area......she had been aiming for center of mass. When she saw where all her shots ended up, I couldn’t get her to stop giggling,,,,,,,,”guess that will stop him” she said. Was quite happy with the POI on her new gun.
Second....Recently helped a young lady (heck, now they are all young to me), get used to her new handgun..Had her practice with one of those full body targets. It was shooting low, so all ten shots went right into the groin area......she had been aiming for center of mass. When she saw where all her shots ended up, I couldn’t get her to stop giggling,,,,,,,,”guess that will stop him” she said. Was quite happy with the POI on her new gun.
Jeb Stuart
member
I generally take people at their word, but it sure is funny how everyone is a crack shot, right up to the point you hand them a gun, and ask them to show you, and then the excuses begin.
It happens, but luck is not a sign of skill.
Lol, and that should apply every bit to YOU as well as anyone. So happy you are a expert on what I can and cannot do with a small 380 or how much I have trained with them for the past 10 years. You are right, most people are not good with a smaller gun. And most are not good with a larger gun. So What? The fact is, you know nothing about all people. Know nothing about how well some people can do with a small gun and you sure as hell do not know a thing about me, so get off my back. And if you shoot a small gun often, you should very well do a I said I can do. Not that big of a deal for someone that trains with them on a regular basis. I belong to a small group of shooters that do shoot them on regularly and many can do a whole lot better than me. How come you can't?
And your comment "Shoot whatever you want. I could care less. I would only hope, youre as good as you say, because I really dont like the idea of all these people just throwing a gun in their pockets, and going on their merry way, thinking they are good to go, and they cant shoot for ****, even when they try to do so shooting slow at a static target up close. I would prefer if you carry something, youre at least competent with it, and I dont have to worry about you hitting me downrange, when you cut loose.".
Lol, thanks, but you do not have to worry about me. And yes, most people shoot all guns slow and at a static target, not just small guns. And of course, I bet they do not shoot very often either. Probably most of the people in going to a range on a Sat. I would bet 90 Percent of EDC owners.
I would suggest you worry about your own skills instead of trying to put others down or judging them. I do not judge your skills, nor anyone else on this forum. Why the need for you to do this? I get with all your attack post, the fact remains that maybe YOU cannot shoot a pocket gun well and that bothers you. And it really bothers you that others can. And I will emphatically say, there are some guys I shoot 380's with on a regular basis that are pretty darn good. If you cannot shoot one well. Why not start training more with one. Get into it. Over come your fear.
If someone tells me that can shoot a 44mag revolver very well. I believe them. I do not call them a liar or insinuate they are. I actually envy them. Wish I could. And I probably could if I put the same amount of effort and years of shooting small barrel guns not to mention ammo. But that is not my niche. Some guys do very well with revolvers, some with Pocket guns and Micro 9mm, some with Duty guns, some with shotguns trap and skeet etc. Maybe you should get off small guns and start putting them down for awhile. Tell them what needs to be done. I am sure they would love to hear your advice.But I would NOT lump every one in the same category.
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lincen
Member
Everybody blames the 25acp guns for being so week, it’s the ammunition that makes a difference. Pocket carried, overly oiled, and American made ammo is not you best choice. I’ve shot old 32S&W long ammo that was so compromised that you could easily see the bullet in flight. I don’t carry a 25 but when I shoot one of my 20 or so 6.35 chambered hand cannons, it has European made ammo in it .
AK103K
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Absolutely it does!
Let me ask you this. How many times have you run any of your local matches or side matches using your 380 from the gear you normally carry it? You know, to see how well you really do. It would be very interesting to hear how that went.
Im not judging anyone, simply pointing out that you actually need to be able to shoot whatever it is you choose, and to be competent with it. And I mean be realistically competent with it.
Look, I have small to smaller 38's, 380's, 32's, and 22's, and shoot them all on a pretty regular basis, and I do so in a manner as realistic as possible. Im actually very familiar with them. No fear of them whatsoever. I do have a very good understanding of them too though, and do know whats to be expected from them.
Can I shoot them as well, in all circumstances, as the things I now choose to carry in their places? Hell no, and Im betting you cant either. Lets at least be a little honest and realistic here, shall we?
I quit carrying guns like that, for anything Id consider serious anyway, quite a while back, simply because I found I can carry a more realistic and effective gun, that I do shoot better across pretty much anything you want to compare, just as easily in their place. And literally in the same place using the same types of holsters.
If you dont think thats possible, or simply dont want to, hey, thats you, do what you want. I prefer to use things that give me the best options, and I shoot well with, in as many circumstances as I might possibly run into. You obviously have a different outlook on things. And again thats fine. Ill do my thing, you do yours.
There are those who, when someone disagrees with their statements, take it as a personal afront.
Unless the response is really a personal one, that's not the case.
ThomasT
Member
Naw. I'm staying out of this one.
Except for those targets that @AK103K posted. I see the pattern. Saw it right off. He hates people who wear sunglasses. Everyone he shot was wearing sunglasses. Well, except for that one dude. And I think he shot him for NOT wearing sunglasses. Just goes to show, you can't please some people.
Except for those targets that @AK103K posted. I see the pattern. Saw it right off. He hates people who wear sunglasses. Everyone he shot was wearing sunglasses. Well, except for that one dude. And I think he shot him for NOT wearing sunglasses. Just goes to show, you can't please some people.
That's an interesting comment.
They may have 'stuck with" the .32 ACP for a log time, but it is no longer used for military or many, if any, police forces in Europe.
The .32 Long revolver round was widely used here. I believe that it began being supplanted by .38s quite a while before the .32 ACP (7.65 Browning) was retired in Europe.
It would be interesting to learn from someone who was knowledgeable about pistol selection and use in Europe some of the thoughts on why the .32 was used by police and military, and why the French, for so long, used a 7.65 cartridge with a longer case.
I know I've read about it from time to time, but I am drawing a blank.
whughett
Member
Well your right I suppose. Might have something to do with mass. McGlockton made it into the store 20 feet away, dead from a little bullet to the heart. he was a big man. Drejka will spend the next 20 in prison.
No winners there.
Actually in view of my advance age perhaps I’m just better off leaving the big/ little gun at home, I forget it often any way. Haven’t needed it in 78 years anyhow.
Jack Ryan
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Most 25s make a better beer opener than they do a gun.I'll just open a beer, sit back and enjoy the comments that would follow...
It will only go through one side so the can doesn't dribble when you drink it.
Jeb Stuart
member
Have to really agree with you. Larger guns get boring to me. Each to his own.
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Jack Ryan
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After he has shot himself in the head with a 30-30, what else to you suppose there is to shoot at? I think perhaps had someone else shot him and was preparing for a second try he might have weighed his options differently.
AK103K
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I dont know about the Europeans and their choices. I have this, a Mauser 1910 in 6.35 that my dad was given by an uncle that brought it back from WWII. It was the first handgun I ever shot. Its not real big, and I suppose you could call it a pocket gun, and maybe 1940's pockets, but its still pretty big for todays pockets anyway.
Its accurate and fun to shoot.
I also found this in my dads drawer when he died, and we had no idea where it came from.
None of us had ever seen it and we figured someone gave it to him to get rid of. Its a S&W 4th model top break in 32 S&W. Its not marked with caliber, and it took a little detective work to figure out just what it was, other than it was a S&W.
Figured out it was also of the black powder era, and thats what I loaded it with. I didnt go crazy either, just filled the case to just above the bottom of the bullet with FF black powder, Figured it would be a little bit lighter a load than FFF. It shot OK, but about 6" right of POA at about 10 feet. It was surprisingly loud, and recoil was more than I was expecting too. It also wouldnt pierce the side of my burn barrel (55gal drum) at the same distance either. Just left dents in the metal.
Its accurate and fun to shoot.
I also found this in my dads drawer when he died, and we had no idea where it came from.
None of us had ever seen it and we figured someone gave it to him to get rid of. Its a S&W 4th model top break in 32 S&W. Its not marked with caliber, and it took a little detective work to figure out just what it was, other than it was a S&W.
Figured out it was also of the black powder era, and thats what I loaded it with. I didnt go crazy either, just filled the case to just above the bottom of the bullet with FF black powder, Figured it would be a little bit lighter a load than FFF. It shot OK, but about 6" right of POA at about 10 feet. It was surprisingly loud, and recoil was more than I was expecting too. It also wouldnt pierce the side of my burn barrel (55gal drum) at the same distance either. Just left dents in the metal.
whatnickname
Member
That 1910 was such a nice pistol. They made a larger one in 32 ACP. Extremely well made and many of them have quite a bit of history behind them.
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