Bit of a rant... Mouse Guns

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you would be wrong. While a 22 to the face may be more effective I've seen plenty of accounts of folks shot in the face that fought on and a 50BMG is probably going to remove a foot and cause a tremendous amount of blood loss.

Wow, this is getting really bad. Hopefully the moderator closes this down.
OK let me make this clear I don't care what YOU do when someone else makes a claim. I'm seeing what YOU do when YOUR claim is questioned.
So far all you've done is deflect and make a ad hominem attacking mine and AK103K's character for questioning your claim.

So now I'm just going to call bovine feces. And for the record I've ran in high school and am a pretty accomplished juggler I'm calling BS on the juggling too ya didn't learn to juggle large objects first.

Lol, Bovine feces? Wow you sound brilliant. A real gift for words. So you ran in high school? When was that, last year? Ok, great. And I did learn to juggle using large balls. Sorry, missed the class on that one. I was only around 12 when I started. And I also started shooting large guns and gradually moved down. And go ahead and call that Bovin Feces. Thanks for making it clear that you do not care what I think. Makes me happy. I bet you are even a better juggler than me. Have not even messed with it in years. But if you feel that you can juggle better than me, than I am happy for you. I bet you are good with a yo yo as well. It is important for a man to have something he is proud of. My hat is off to you. Keep up the good work.
 
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Wow, this is getting really bad. Hopefully the moderator closes this down.


Lol, Bovine feces? Wow you sound brilliant. A real gift for words. So you ran in high school? When was that, last year? Ok, great. And I did learn to juggle using large balls. Sorry, missed the class on that one. I was only around 12 when I started. And I also started shooting large guns and gradually moved down. And go ahead and call that Bovin Feces. Thanks for making it clear that you do not care what I think. Makes me happy. I bet you are even a better juggler than me. Have not even messed with it in years. But if you feel that you can juggle better than me, than I am happy for you. I bet you are good with a yo yo as well. It is important for a man to have something he is proud of. My hat is off to you. Keep up the good work.
So more ad hominem. Teacher Mavracer is being mean he questioned my claim that I shoot mice guns better than bigger guns.
And you started juggling basketballs and bowling balls?

And yes a guy should be proud of accomplishment. IE " yes I shot a IDPA 5×5 classifier in 25 sec with my LCP regularly and 28 sec with my SR9"
This is a made up example i can't imagine it actually happening.
 
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It seems that those who are bothered by someone choosing a poor caliber, for whatever their reason, they seem lost in the concept of carrying, period. Many claim to use the biggest and baddest caliber because if you need it, you need the best. All well and good but the main point of carrying is to stop an attack, not act like Rambo and take out the bad guys at 50 yards. Can I shoot a mouse gun as well and as far as a 1911 or a Glock 19? Why heck no! Um, do I need to play cop wannabe and save the day or do I want to get out of the encounter alive?

What is the purpose of carrying? Wait! I know! To stop an imminent threat. If you want to save all the Walmart shoppers and carry a full size combat gun, be my guest. But for you to put your heroball notions on those who just want to go home, well that is on you. For the record, I never carried lass than a .380 and usually a good size 9. That's me for my reasons. However, I love mouse guns and pat the back of anyone who chooses to carry it instead of a whatever. That is their choice and, frankly, none of your business.
 
So more ad hominem. Teacher Mavracer is being mean he questioned my claim that I shoot mice guns better than bigger guns.
And you started juggling basketballs and bowling balls?
You forgot the comma after teacher. Sorry never made a claim I shoot mice guns better than bigger guns. Do not even own a mice gun or a mouse gun. No never tried to juggle a bowling ball,yes to basketballs. I do not think you are mean, just full of Bovine Feces.
 
You forgot the comma after teacher. Sorry never made a claim I shoot mice guns better than bigger guns. Do not even own a mice gun or a mouse gun. No never tried to juggle a bowling ball,yes to basketballs. I do not think you are mean, just full of Bovine Feces.

What do you call a small 380?
And you started juggling using basketballs?

And by all means please attack my argument and give some evidence backing up your claim.
 
What do you call a small 380?
And you started juggling using basketballs?

And by all means please attack my argument and give some evidence backing up your claim.

I have nothing more to say to you. This thread has had enough already. My apology to the forum and to the OP. Sorry I got caught up into this nonsense.
 
I like to describe miniature guns with these types of phrases:

Emergency Back Up Gun
Retreat Gun
Extra Deep Concealment Gun
Shoot the tip of your own finger gun
Impossible orientation in the dark gun
 
you would be wrong. While a 22 to the face may be more effective I've seen plenty of accounts of folks shot in the face that fought on and a 50BMG is probably going to remove a foot and cause a tremendous amount of blood loss.
Maybe, maybe not. No one knows. But if I had a choice, mouse gun to critical area beats monster caliber to appendage every time. No one needs to agree or disagree, that would be my pick. The argument the other way disregards shot placement as being the critical variable, but most folks feel like a good hit beats a bad hit any way you cut it. Just my .02, worth what you paid for it.
 
It seems that those who are bothered by someone choosing a poor caliber, for whatever their reason, they seem lost in the concept of carrying, period. Many claim to use the biggest and baddest caliber because if you need it, you need the best. All well and good but the main point of carrying is to stop an attack, not act like Rambo and take out the bad guys at 50 yards. Can I shoot a mouse gun as well and as far as a 1911 or a Glock 19? Why heck no! Um, do I need to play cop wannabe and save the day or do I want to get out of the encounter alive?

What is the purpose of carrying? Wait! I know! To stop an imminent threat. If you want to save all the Walmart shoppers and carry a full size combat gun, be my guest. But for you to put your heroball notions on those who just want to go home, well that is on you. For the record, I never carried lass than a .380 and usually a good size 9. That's me for my reasons. However, I love mouse guns and pat the back of anyone who chooses to carry it instead of a whatever. That is their choice and, frankly, none of your business.
Are you actually insulting people like the man who stopped the church shooter? Anyone who has the courage or integrity to save others are "cop wannabes"?

Incredible and sad.
 
Maybe, maybe not. No one knows. But if I had a choice, mouse gun to critical area beats monster caliber to appendage every time. No one needs to agree or disagree, that would be my pick. The argument the other way disregards shot placement as being the critical variable, but most folks feel like a good hit beats a bad hit any way you cut it. Just my .02, worth what you paid for it.
Like I said earlier there's only 2 variables you have some control over disregarding either is foolish. Yes shot placement is more important but it's only somewhat in your control and difficult to predict. He might not just let you shoot him in the face.
 
Well your right I suppose. Might have something to do with mass. McGlockton made it into the store 20 feet away, dead from a little bullet to the heart. he was a big man. Drejka will spend the next 20 in prison.

Interesting example. Drejka wasn't using a .25 acp fired from a teeny tiny vest pocket pistol. He used a .40 caliber Glock. Even then, had McGlockton been armed with a gun himself, in the time it took him to cover those 20 feet back into the store, he could have shot Drejka several times.

Just because you shoot somebody in the heart or lungs does not mean the fight is necessarily over. The FBI learned that the hard way as have others.
 
Great story Blkhrt13. You have hit on exactly what these guns are for. It sort of makes you wonder if Reginald Denny might not be in better shape today if he would have just had a mouse gun on him way back in 1992.
Was a diesel mechanic in LA @ the time. Reginald needed to grab a gear and motor on. Every driver that showed up the next day had a briefcase/handbag. I personally brought a G22 with three extra magazines stuffed to the brim with black talons and a 500 in the trunk.
On a side note the freeways were empty. I rolled in record time no traffic no police. I lived in Huntington Beach at the time and got stopped in front of my house for expired tags. They had been paid just not received in the mail. I was giggling and the officer inquired why I thought this was funny. I explained that I knew he could see on his screen that I was legal yet I got stopped. 50 miles away people were burning the neighborhoods to the ground yet nothing was being done. He could not see the irony.
All this to say his vehicle was his best weapon. What saved him was an elderly black man who did the right thing.
 
Ellifritz Study

.45 ACP - 14% Failure to Stop
.25 ACP - 35% Failure to Stop

Those are the only two numbers that stood out. The average number of hits to stop (2.08 vs 2.20) and the chance of stopping with one solid torso or head (51% vs 49%) shot were within the margin of era of each other.

That study isn't perfect but it's as good as anything we have.

If we take it at face value you have a roughly 2 out of 3 Chance of stopping someone with a .25 ACP vs 6 out of 7 with a .45 ACP.
 
What is it that Meatloaf sang? 2 out 3 ain't bad. Regardless, an Australian college baseball catcher was shot and killed by a gang member with a single shot from a 22LR revolver in Oklahoma, I believe, in 2013. So anything's is better than nothing. And 22's can be lethal. The lowest caliber I carry is a Sig P238.
 
Would I rather have a 6 of 7 chance, and carry a .45? Absolutely.

Would I rather have a 2 of 3 chance, or know that my loved ones have a 2 of 3 chance, when the alternative is having no gun at all when trouble shows up unannounced?

2 of 3 chance FTW.
 
I wonder if you factor in how many people would actually carry a 45.cal into Church vs a small 25 ACP? And then of course there are other small guns like a 380 that are easily carried.I remember watching the video and thinking, what would have happened if there was NOT a security guard but some members sitting in the pews next to the shooter were in fact armed with a small carry gun and capable and proficient with using it?
I carry most of the time a 380 or a Micro 9mm, sometimes a small revolver. But to go very deep concealment and light weight, this 10 oz full loaded pistol with 8 rds of Underwood Plus p in 32.cal would IMO stop a threat. Provided the user was proficient. Certainly easy to fire 8 fast rounds into the attacker.
Heck, This pistol is so small and light, I could even put it in the palm of my hand concealed and I doubt anyone would notice. For sure you could find some way to conceal it and draw quickly. Carry it in a book, that has been cut out from the back.
Just some thoughts.

knjOphd.jpg
 
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Are you actually insulting people like the man who stopped the church shooter? Anyone who has the courage or integrity to save others are "cop wannabes"?

Incredible and sad.
I stand by my statement. However, if you are on the church's security team or neighborhood watch, etc, then you better be carrying a large enough weapon to adequately defend whoever you are there to back up. If you strap on your carry every day and look to save the world, then yeah, become a cop. If you carry to get home then you are looking at self preservation and that of those with you. If you want to play hero, become a hero. You can even get paid to do it. Judging others by your own, personal needs is just the wrong thing to do.
 
A little bit of common sense for some. I highly suggest that folks that come on to attack folks that do carry smaller concealed carry to Please, and I repeat and emphasis Please to at least try and not be so narrow minded and watch the video and then address your attacks to Claud Werner rather that members of the forum
. It would so nice to have a thread on Pocket Pistols for folks that do carry them, shoot them, train with them and collect them and not to have two constantly have to defend every post they make by these people. On this forum it never happens that way. It is sad.And 90% of the time it is the same Usual Suspects.

 
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How many people at the range, or where you shoot, do you ever see anyone practicing with one from how they carry it, and shooting in any kind of realistic manner with one? How many do you see practicing at all, in any manner?

I can't speak for others but I actually practice and train more with my "Mouse" guns than I do with any of the others. Sure, I have some fairly nice larger size and caliber handguns and even carry them, but realistically on the very unlikely chance I ever actually have to use one it will be at BBD and there a "Mouse" gun really would be my first choice.

First, by "Mouse" gun I am talking about those that I can cover or just about cover with my hand and in calibers between 22lr and the 32 family both 32 and the 32acp series.

The primary reason is that a small gun can be used effectively held close to the body and so more secure and better braced. The smaller calibers also allow greater control for multiple rapid shots on target. In addition, such guns really are easier to carry and conceal regardless of dress.
 
I stand by my statement. However, if you are on the church's security team or neighborhood watch, etc, then you better be carrying a large enough weapon to adequately defend whoever you are there to back up. If you strap on your carry every day and look to save the world, then yeah, become a cop. If you carry to get home then you are looking at self preservation and that of those with you. If you want to play hero, become a hero. You can even get paid to do it. Judging others by your own, personal needs is just the wrong thing to do.
Mike Bloomberg is that you?
 
I am sorry but I just gotta get in on this one LOL! With respect to close quarters self defense against thugs that are not pointing a gun at you it is hard to beat a good baseball bat but carrying around a baseball bat in public all the time gets old.....In those situations ANY caliber handgun will usually convince the thugs to not beat you over the head....That being said if I could conceal a .32 auto as well as a .25 and carry it just as comfortably I would always carry the .32....Same goes for the .380...But today we can have our choice of 9mm's that are actually as small as a PPKs was back in the day...why not just go with that? It is really up to how well you can conceal the platform on YOUR body with YOUR clothing...I really like a baseball bat but it is a pain to conceal!
 
I am sorry but I just gotta get in on this one LOL! With respect to close quarters self defense against thugs that are not pointing a gun at you it is hard to beat a good baseball bat but carrying around a baseball bat in public all the time gets old.....In those situations ANY caliber handgun will usually convince the thugs to not beat you over the head....That being said if I could conceal a .32 auto as well as a .25 and carry it just as comfortably I would always carry the .32....Same goes for the .380...But today we can have our choice of 9mm's that are actually as small as a PPKs was back in the day...why not just go with that? It is really up to how well you can conceal the platform on YOUR body with YOUR clothing...I really like a baseball bat but it is a pain to conceal!

I love the small 380 as well as the Micro 9mm's. In fact bought two more Nano's in the past three months and another Kahr CM9. Love shooting them, One Nano recently just went past the 10,000 rd mark. But even the Kahr which the lightest weight 9mm's sits home more than my small guns. It is still larger and heavier. Yea then all get carried and shot weekly, but so many times, I just want the small 380. 5oz IMO a lot of extra weight.
The Kahr 380 by the way is a very easy, very pleasant gun to shoot.
HZ8srGH.jpg
 
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