Model 70 Copper Fouled pretty bad

Hello all,

I shoot my Model 70 Safari 416 Rem Mag regularly, it’s my favorite rifle, I typically average10 rounds each range visit. Always cleaned after use. Recently noticed that copper built up pretty heavily, accuracy hasn’t dropped and point of impact is the same. I’ve owned lots of rifles ( mostly model 70s) and never seen this much copper in a barrel.

I noticed this after using trophy bonded bear claw go through the rifle. The picture below is after several passes with Barnes cr10, I shot 350gr ttsx and didn’t have this issue.

I’m not concerned since performance wasn’t affected but I’m keeping an eye on it now. Should I be concerned? Any thoughts/comments are greatly appreciated.

Also I stuck a inspection camera down the barrel and it’s like that the entire length.

Thank you all for the replies.

troy fairweather said:

Aren't the tbbc plated? Some good copper remover and it will be good as new.

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According to old Speer data I have they are jacketed, they are no longer available unloaded. I bought federal ammo loaded with 400 gr tbbc cheap but I don’t think I’d be using them again.

243winxb said:

A hunting gun and only 10 rounds per trip, no accuracy loss. All good.

Does the powder your using have a copper eraser additive?

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Rifle goes to the range at least once a month and I average 10 sometimes 20 per visit.

I use RL17 for reloads but the tbbc are federal factory loads. Not sure if it has copper eraser

stillquietvoice said:

The bear claw may have a softer alloy thus leaving copper I noticed this with corelockt in 7mm08 and 243. My 2 were so bad that I couldn't even see the rifling.



As Troy says copper cleaner and time cleaning will get it out there is a thread running that deals with the issue nature boy started.

My 2 cents on gun cleaning.

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Thanks for the heads up on Nature Boy’s thread, found it by searching him name/profile.

someguy2800 said:

I wouldn't be concerned about it, but you will need to figure out a cleaning regimen that gets it out before the accuracy degrades. The best product I have ever used to remove copper fouling is Gunslick Foaming Bore cleaner. You just spray it down the bore from the chamber end which fills the bore with foam. Let it sit for 15-20 minutes and push it all out the end with a patched jag. If there was any copper it will turn the foam blue. It was incredible stuff and very easy on your bore since there was no scrubbing. It look like its discontinued though so I'll have to see if I can find some more of it to stock up on.

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I used it before, looks like a mini can of fix a flat. The Barnes CR10 stuff I used in my other rifles gets copper out well I’ve had better results with it than sweets 7.62.

I followed the directions printed and repeated the process 10 times. Patches looked like blue jeans and had copper dust all over them. The photos above were after I cleaned it. That’s what made me post. I’ve never had copper this bad and this stubborn.

I’m gonna look around today to see what’s a available, it seems like more good products get pulled from shelves due to misuse recently.

I’ll try bore tech eliminator and report back. Thank you all for the replies.

Boattale said:

Don't get it on the stock.

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I pull the action/barrel When cleaning. The rifle is pillar/glass bedded. So it’s consistent between assembly/disassembly.

z7 said:

How much do you shoot? When was the last cleaning?
10 rds each range trip, is that weekly/monthly/etc

how’s accuracy?

not familiar with the cartridge but 500-1000 without accuracy degradation is not unheard of with match barrels, so even if your barrel from Winchester is a little tougher than a Bartlein, 300-500 should be easy to get, we often over clean our rifles over fear of fouling ruining them but we will ruin them sooner with chemicals and cleaning rods than we will letting them be, assuming we don’t let them rust. Carbon steal in a humid environment could use a little hoppes #9 or just oil to prevent rust

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I go to the range at least once a month, I have 3 rifles left Weatherby 22, Model 70 .270 win and Model 70. I typically shoot 50rd 22, 40rd 270 and 10rd 416.

Accuracy is great, this rifle was trued/tuned and pillar/glass bedded, not something typically done to a safari rifle. From a lead sled it’s100yd 3 shot group is typically 0.75”-1”.

At this point the only effect the fouling has is cosmetic. Accuracy, velocity, etc. is consistent.
My thinking is it wasn’t always there so I don’t think removing would affect accuracy.

I live in Albuquerque, so cleaning after each trip is mandatory to me, son the range is our in the desert. Lots of sand/dust and it’s usually breezy.

416 rem mag (started as 416 Hoffman) was designed to compete with 416 Rigby as an elephant round. The 416 rem being able to fit in a standard magnum action made it a readily available cartridge without needing a custom rifle. Ammo is around $130 for a box of 20 and as high as $110 for a box of 10 Norma solids (pictured below). So hand loaded is usually what I shoot.



Left to right
416 rem mag, 300 win mag, 270 win, 243 win, 223 rem, 357 mag and 45 acp

Top to bottom
Weatherby Mark XXII 22 lr
Model 70 XTR 270 win
Model 70 Safari Express 416 rem mag

Steve S. said:

What do you use the .416 for other than the bench?

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From deer to big bears, moose, elk and hopefully in the near future NA bison. You’d be surprised how little damage a heavy slow moving bullet does to meat, maybe 2”-5” diameter bruise. A buddy and I hunted elk last year with his 30-378 weatherby at 300 yds. When we skinned it, you’d swear it was hit by a bus, sob was 25% grape jelly. My deer load is 300 gr at 2400fps (it can safely push 2700+) and I use 350 ttsx at 2600for anything bigger. A 400 gr Norma solid will punch clean holes through moderate size tree stumps.

edwardware said:

Looks familiar, I have several barrels that did that.

For decoppering, I like ProShot Copper Solvent IV. It works faster, more thoroughly, and with fewer passes, than any other I've tried.

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I didn’t have a chance this weekend to look around this weekend I’ll keep an eye out for it and boretech, although boretech may be Brownells esxclusive.

z7 said:

Good looking rifle, but a desert climate and 120-150rds per year doesn’t mean you need to clean the bore, particularly with chemicals

if it were me, I’d leave the bore alone, or maybe a dry bore snake and just give the bolt/barrel a wipe down with a oil cloth to keep dust off

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Thanks, I don’t always use the harsh stuff, typically just a plastic bristle and a few patches the last one with oil, clean the bot and mag well. The only time I really do the “deep” cleaning is after I’m done load testing. I ordered a boresnake last night. Not exactly easy to get anything .416 off the shelf.