Need a 243 win bullet for white tail at 150 to 250 yards

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Im about to load up some 87Gr Vmax for my wifes .243. Its also one of my loaner guns, so instant and significant trauma is what im looking for. Course those rounds are will only be for lighter animals.
Yup I went with sst for a loaner .243 (100-200 yd shots) and for my buddy on antelope to help with wind we went with btips, his doe at 500 yards was knocked flat then kicked a quarter circle and never lifted her head, exit large and again no tracking needed. For quick death quick expansion pays off. My other buddy's .270 ripped up a doe pronghorn today at 70ish yds with those bxrs, blood covered 3 legs, chest blown out (internal half a lung and heart, but not heart sack, were left), shot on the run, we had to pick her up 10 yards from impact. If I was a bone breaker or hunting heavy game, I'd run tougher bullets, but deer around here STILL haven't caught on that armor is available ;)
 
Just a thought more toward the animal than the bullet:
Anyone who has ever hunted deer in the RUT knows that a buck will TRY as hard as they can to stay
with the DOE even after they are hit, unless it is an impact that completely breaks him down or like I
always say, TO HEAVY FOR HIM TO CARRY.
The girl here is using vacation days in the RUT to hunt so most likely she is shooting some of these with
their nose at the Does rear end. I know for a fact they will try to stay with the Doe & if they are carrying a
rifle hit she will lead them till they drop or can't carry it.
Thus the blood trail round comes in focus more clearly & more necessary.

I recall Jack O'Conner, among others, mentioned that there are factors that make an animal harder to kill quickly. A buck running on testosterone and smelling does would seem to fit this.

Referring back to Varminterror's explanation, I'm thinking she needs the type bullet that penetrates further before really expanding and makes the bigger exit.

I remember one buck I shot a few years back... .243 and 100gr PowerPoint at ~90yds. He was trotting toward some does I'd been observing, so I lead with my vertical crosshair ahead of the crease of the shoulder. The bullet caught him just behind the crease... centerpunched the heart, made a fist-sized exit that blew out three ribs. He took off running, but he piled up fast with no tracking needed. This is the most radical I've seen happen with this bullet to the heart/lungs. That hit was too heavy for him to carry... no blood pressure... before he got to the does. I figured if he chased them out, I'd probably not see him again. This is part of why I think stick with a cup/core bullet to handload.
 
First round I am going to try of course is the Fusion at 100 yards to see the group it does.
Then I am going to try what I have on hand for the 243, it will be the Sierra 100 Grain Spitzer Boat Tail first
just to see what it takes to beat the Fusion group. Various powder loads in new cases.
If that shows weakness, I will go to the FIREFORMED fusion cases & a couple more bullets I have but not under 90 grain
just per my preference.
If none of the ON Hand stuff seems destructive enough I will go to the mfg you guys have suggested, cost is no object
in this effort. I am all in, cost is no problem.
I am compiling & saving all your suggestions so they are in serious consideration, keep the ideas coming.
 
The size of exit being dependant on expansion, shrapnel, and velocity of exit after initial impact. If you want an at home test, fire all the bullets you're considering into test media at simulated impact velocities, keep all factors equal, catch the bullets after impact.
That just made me think about perhaps, just perhaps, What if she is hitting them where she wants to hit & maybe she is hitting them HIGH in the
chest with the Fusion, hence a few moments before a GOOD blood trail. Then again on the other hand she & old Dad can't track that well
in the first place!!!
I will quiz him tomorrow just for such info.
I have never seen her bulleted [ redneck for bullet hole ] deer up close.
 
That just made me think about perhaps, just perhaps, What if she is hitting them where she wants to hit & maybe she is hitting them HIGH in the
chest with the Fusion, hence a few moments before a GOOD blood trail. Then again on the other hand she & old Dad can't track that well
in the first place!!!
I will quiz him tomorrow just for such info.
I have never seen her bulleted [ redneck for bullet hole ] deer up close.
She'll still be getting small holes with the fusion, @LoonWulf said it best, for fusion, break bones!
 
That just made me think about perhaps, just perhaps, What if she is hitting them where she wants to hit & maybe she is hitting them HIGH in the
chest with the Fusion, hence a few moments before a GOOD blood trail. Then again on the other hand she & old Dad can't track that well
in the first place!!!
I will quiz him tomorrow just for such info.
I have never seen her bulleted [ redneck for bullet hole ] deer up close.
She'll still be getting small holes with the fusion, @LoonWulf said it best, for fusion, break bones!
fusions don't open big holes, I think they actually open smaller exits than fully expanded monometals just because they kinda turn into big roundnose bullets. the monometals at least usually tear open the fat and hide on the way out.

I double lunged an axis buck at about 100yds twice with my 280 and both exit wounds were less than 1/2" wide. buck was running took both hits and made it about 100yds before piling up. There was a blood puddle under him, but most of the blood was still inside when I layed him open.

now that I think about it, I actually shot 4 that trip and only the one that took the hit shoulder to shoulder showed what I'd consider an acceptable exit wound.

The only one that stopped a round got hit thru the top of the shoulder, spine, hip joint and stopped under the skin of the does butt.
 
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I ran her rifle a lot today & the Fusion is very accurate but an occasional flyer out about 2 inches, still not bad for factory.
That was at 100 yards.
The case prep ended yesterday so I tried a few 100 grain Sierra that didn't do well at all as expected because I got a
defective crimp die from Lee that folds the edges instead of the usual smooth crimp they do.
I know lots of you guys raise eyebrows on Lee stuff but I have never found a better way to crimp. I suck at every other
method, I end up with OAL being reduced if I try to do it with the RCBS seater or anything else.
Just by what I saw today I may end up using the fireformed stuff which is all cleaned up with Franklin pins & needles.
That will mean a neck die as well. So off we go.
 
I ran her rifle a lot today & the Fusion is very accurate but an occasional flyer out about 2 inches, still not bad for factory.
That was at 100 yards.
The case prep ended yesterday so I tried a few 100 grain Sierra that didn't do well at all as expected because I got a
defective crimp die from Lee that folds the edges instead of the usual smooth crimp they do.
I know lots of you guys raise eyebrows on Lee stuff but I have never found a better way to crimp. I suck at every other
method, I end up with OAL being reduced if I try to do it with the RCBS seater or anything else.
Just by what I saw today I may end up using the fireformed stuff which is all cleaned up with Franklin pins & needles.
That will mean a neck die as well. So off we go.
All of my dies to date are Lee, none of my rifle rounds are crimped. Just skip the crimp.
 
I would forego the crimp completely on a .243.
Is there a specific reason you are doing so?
Yes there is a reason for wanting to crimp these bullets, more than any that I own myself.
The bullets may last for years & anyone handling them without reloading knowledge will assume they can be
tossed around or rough handled without care for them being PRESSED in deeper in a backpack or underneath them
in a truck seat or in their pocket while dragging a deer. So many ways they could be pressed in deeper.
I seal primers & around the case mouth for hunting ammo.
Some of my stuff go without crimping like my T/C pistols & rifles, but I crimp most everything else, even have a
section on every reload page that is in every box telling how much crimp, like light - medium - firm..
 
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I ran her rifle a lot today & the Fusion is very accurate but an occasional flyer out about 2 inches, still not bad for factory.
That was at 100 yards.
The case prep ended yesterday so I tried a few 100 grain Sierra that didn't do well at all as expected because I got a
defective crimp die from Lee that folds the edges instead of the usual smooth crimp they do.
I know lots of you guys raise eyebrows on Lee stuff but I have never found a better way to crimp. I suck at every other
method, I end up with OAL being reduced if I try to do it with the RCBS seater or anything else.
Just by what I saw today I may end up using the fireformed stuff which is all cleaned up with Franklin pins & needles.
That will mean a neck die as well. So off we go.

That's the collet factory crimp die? I use this... first I've heard of this problem. I'm thinking if you contact Lee, they'll help you straighten it out.

I noticed others said skip the crimp. I personally disagree. I'm sure they'll call ignorance or something.
 
That's the collet factory crimp die? I use this... first I've heard of this problem. I'm thinking if you contact Lee, they'll help you straighten it out.

I have Lee Crimp Dies for every caliber I reload, let me go count them,,,,12 in the main box & the 243
makes 13.
Tried to call Lee this evening, got a busy signal every time from 3pm till 5pm, kind of odd.
Here is a pic of what the crimp did to 2 different loads. Lee Crimp 243#1.jpg
 
I have Lee Crimp Dies for every caliber I reload, let me go count them,,,,12 in the main box & the 243
makes 13.
Tried to call Lee this evening, got a busy signal every time from 3pm till 5pm, kind of odd.
Here is a pic of what the crimp did to 2 different loads.View attachment 884386
Lee had issues with their phones when I tried contacting them awhile back, gave it a couple days (nothing pressing) tried again, and they came through, they'll replace bunches for you just pay shipping.
 
I'm sure they'll call ignorance or something.

No. Just personal preference.
I don’t like the extra step.
I treat my ammunition well.
I don’t own any lever rifles.
I polish my expanders smooth and slightly smaller for increased bullet hold.
With my hobby grade equipment I noticed decreased rifle accuracy. Fine equipment may not do this.

Now. Since we differ in practice, what are your claims to my intelligence?
:)

Here is a pic of what the crimp did to 2 different loads.

Wow! Those are, aren’t they! :eek:

That wrinkle is kinda strange, like it gathered in a wide flare. I have been thinking of getting one of these dies for my Bushmaster. With modification they can be used to stab crimp lower on the case to facilitate the use of heavier bullets, while still head spacing perfectly on the case mouth.


even have a section on every reload page that is in every box telling how much crimp, like light - medium - firm..

Me too. But mine are listed in thousandths...
Most of the rifles are listed as zero, but not all of them...;)
 
Yes there is a reason for wanting to crimp these bullets, more than any that I own myself.
The bullets may last for years & anyone handling them without reloading knowledge will assume they can be
tossed around or rough handled without care for them being PRESSED in deeper in a backpack or underneath them
in a truck seat or in their pocket while dragging a deer. So many ways they could be pressed in deeper.

"With proper case neck tension" .... you are not going to move a bullet by any reasonable handling ... certainly not in a back pack, pocket or riding under the seat the truck .... now if you drag out the hammer and start beating on them .... that will be a different story .....

Been loading Fifty Four years and load twenty plus rifle cartridges and have never seen a bullet move because lack of crimp ..... I do not even crimp my AR 15 ammo .....

Pistol/revolver ammo takes a different story ....
 
I noticed others said skip the crimp. I personally disagree. I'm sure they'll call ignorance or something.

I wasn't even goingvto respond to this as it would not help the Op solve his issue.

With my hobby grade equipment I noticed decreased rifle accuracy. Fine equipment may not do this.

I too noticed a decrease in accuracy with crimped bullets and I've never had an issue in 30+ years.
 
I have Lee Crimp Dies for every caliber I reload, let me go count them,,,,12 in the main box & the 243
makes 13.
Tried to call Lee this evening, got a busy signal every time from 3pm till 5pm, kind of odd.
Here is a pic of what the crimp did to 2 different loads.View attachment 884386

That's a rough looking crimp compared to what I'm used to... kinda reminds me of some 1935 Turkish 8mm Mauser. :scrutiny: If the collet is the problem, and you can catch Lee, I know of no reason they wouldn't fix it.

When I crimp, I also usually rotate the case and smooth it a tad more. It won't hurt anything... the collet will only close to a certain point.
 
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No. Just personal preference.
I don’t like the extra step.
I treat my ammunition well.
I don’t own any lever rifles.
I polish my expanders smooth and slightly smaller for increased bullet hold.
With my hobby grade equipment I noticed decreased rifle accuracy. Fine equipment may not do this.

Now. Since we differ in practice, what are your claims to my intelligence?

Some people prefer to think through the reasons for different practices. I simply agree with the OP on reasons to crimp, but YMMV. Some prefer to bash someone else's intelligence for using a different practice. If somebody doesn't know who's intelligence they're bashing, they can start to sound pretty ignorant. Intelligence (or lack of) and ignorance are two different things.
 
Are the collets interchangeable? Could a larger one be mixed up with it?

Tried that a long time ago, they won't swap out.
In fact if you look directly into it without a cartridge in it while it is closed as if to crimp it is SQUARE, Not Round!!
I am tempted to BASH LEE REAL GOOD !
I finally got hold of them today & HIM told me I was doing it wrong, like I was turning the crimp up to high to start with.
I follow instructions to the letter with every device I use & crimping is nothing I take [ LIGHTLY ], just to add humor to
what used to, would have run me over the edge.
I told HIM I have 14 LEE CRIMP DIES & if anyone knows how to run one I do.
I told him I was in a hurry so I have already ordered another LEE CRIMP DIE from Midway which is in the mail already,
he said it will do the same thing to the cases, I told him I have pics of the bad results & he said, not necessary it is
doing what it is supposed to do & I should set it lighter, I then told him the pic is the lighter setting.
I didn't want one from them $14 is nothing, just wanted to tell them bullets are round not square.
Told HIM just forget it.
I can't go getting upset anymore due to heart stuff, so that's that.
I was going to start a thread on the phone call but with that kind of customer relations, they will take care of themselves
before long.
 
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Tried not crimping today on a few loads with slow powder & things are getting tighter, when the neck die gets here
fireformed will fix it good.
 
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