Need a 243 win bullet for white tail at 150 to 250 yards

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Another reason I crimp is if a load goes thru, like with a Weatherby Magnum, & someone who -looks like me- has passed it
over in the POWDER process. Just the Federal Magnum primer goes off, wouldn't that pop the bullet out of the case into the tapered rifling
& stick in in the barrel?
Well back in the stone age when I started loading again I did a load just like that, EXCEPT I HAD CRIMPED IT & the bullet
didn't move. So what could have happened, didn't. However it did happen to the fellow I worked with & the rifle never grouped well
from then on, don't remember the caliber.
 
I can tell you this - a 2.5 year old colt evading a saddle can kick hard enough to drive a non-crimped 150 grain Ballistic Silvertip 30-06 dummy round keychain over an inch and a half into the meat of a 20yr old man’s thigh, and 3 thou neck tension is strong enough to prevent the bullet from being set back when doing so. Ask me how I know... I had carried it every day in my pocket, backpack, football/wrestling/hunting bags, dropped it countless times, thrown it countless times on a counter, for 6 years before that, and still longer for 10 years after until an HR person noted I probably shouldn’t leave it laying on my desk when visiting our locations.

Extra step, extra expense, extra work hardening of the case mouth, extra deformation of the bullet... I don’t crimp my bolt guns except for DGR type cartridges with extreme recoil and heavy bullets which can pull a bullet under recoil, don’t crimp my AR’s, only rifles I reliably crimp are leverguns, for the obvious reason.
 
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ACES&8S said:
Another reason I crimp is if a load goes thru, like with a Weatherby Magnum, & someone who -looks like me- has passed it
over in the POWDER process. Just the Federal Magnum primer goes off, wouldn't that pop the bullet out of the case into the tapered rifling
& stick in in the barrel?
Well back in the stone age when I started loading again I did a load just like that, EXCEPT I HAD CRIMPED IT & the bullet
didn't move. So what could have happened, didn't. However it did happen to the fellow I worked with & the rifle never grouped well
from then on, don't remember the caliber.
Click to expand...

My wife has been reloading for years and I trust her ammunition like my own, and more than 99% of other reloaders I know. Last year she experienced her first missed charge - in a batch of ammo she loaded for me to use at our State Precision Rifle Club Finals. I assumed it was a misfire, ejected the round, noting the bullet was with it, finished the stage, dropping one of my “match savers” from the side of my stock. After the match, I tried it again, hoping to keep my batch of brass complete and consistent. It never did fire, and I realized, it didn’t get any powder.

A 6mm creedmoor, 105 Berger Hybrid in Hornady brass, CCI BR2 large rifle primer, with only 2 thou neck tension, seated 20-25 thou off of the lands by then, didn’t even move. Same COAL as when loaded. Added it to my “reloading box of shame,” a collection of visual aids I use when mentoring new reloaders - and reminders for me to keep my poop in a group when loading.

But even without a crimp, the bullet didn’t dislodge from the case. I know it’s SUPPOSED to happen, and I’m sure it can and does happen, but I’m not necessarily sure I believe crimping is true insurance, nor is NOT crimping ensured damnation.
 
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ACES&8S said:
Tried that a long time ago, they won't swap out.
In fact if you look directly into it without a cartridge in it while it is closed as if to crimp it is SQUARE, Not Round!!
I am tempted to BASH LEE REAL GOOD !
I finally got hold of them today & HIM told me I was doing it wrong, like I was turning the crimp up to high to start with.
I follow instructions to the letter with every device I use & crimping is nothing I take [ LIGHTLY ], just to add humor to
what used to, would have run me over the edge.
I told HIM I have 14 LEE CRIMP DIES & if anyone knows how to run one I do.
I told him I was in a hurry so I have already ordered another LEE CRIMP DIE from Midway which is in the mail already,
he said it will do the same thing to the cases, I told him I have pics of the bad results & he said, not necessary it is
doing what it is supposed to do & I should set it lighter, I then told him the pic is the lighter setting.
I didn't want one from them $14 is nothing, just wanted to tell them bullets are round not square.
Told HIM just forget it.
I can't go getting upset anymore due to heart stuff, so that's that.
I was going to start a thread on the phone call but with that kind of customer relations, they will take care of themselves
before long.
Click to expand...

That was the last thing I expected.
 
mustanger98 said:
That was the last thing I expected
Click to expand...
I was set back by it myself, I haven't had to contact them in years, but back then they were an inspiration for
my reloading efforts.
I couldn't find a 270 Weatherby Mag set of dies way back then & I talked to them on the phone.
They said send us a fireformed case from the Mark V & we will make a set of dies that will be good
enough for competition, even urged me to compete with it, as well as a phone # for reloading info.
That 270 W Mag was so accurate It should have been in competition but my work back then didn't
leave time to travel much.
The neck die & F/L Die would crush a case now & then because of the tight #'s but it was always
my fault back then.
NOW, it is like when I called I was in the way or like I am a rookie that never used the crimp die.
I am just going to let it go but my Son is burning Lee on the sites he is on.
 
Yeah, I tend to think of asking to speak with a supervisor first. My next choice would be in writing and involve pics of both the die, showing the problem area, and the results. And this kind of issue shouldn't be hard to resolve. If no satisfaction can be had, they'd lose my business. I'm talking about the principle and not just rah rah at Lee Precision or any other company. Used to be, a company turning out quality products was a matter of self-respect, pride, or both. What changed?
 
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I don't remember, but every business usually starts with = this conversation may be recorded, but I hear it so much I
can't remember if that was the case or not.
I am in waiting for the new Lee Crimp Die to arrive tomorrow just to compare the two.
The Lee rep said any 243 crimp die will do the same as this one because I didn't know how to work it.
I have done literally thousands on thousands of rounds with them & never had a problem from day one.
When it gets here I will compare the two & either way it goes I have results in my favor.
 
Let us know how it goes.
ACES&8S said:
I don't remember, but every business usually starts with = this conversation may be recorded, but I hear it so much I
can't remember if that was the case or not.
I am in waiting for the new Lee Crimp Die to arrive tomorrow just to compare the two.
The Lee rep said any 243 crimp die will do the same as this one because I didn't know how to work it.
I have done literally thousands on thousands of rounds with them & never had a problem from day one.
When it gets here I will compare the two & either way it goes I have results in my favor.
Click to expand...
 
The new Lee Crimp Die works great::::
Which proves the first one is defective, regardless of what the Lee Rep said it would do.
He said it would do the same thing & I didn't know how to adjust it.
LOVE IT WHEN I AM HOLDING A FULL HOUSE.
I just know how the call will go, they won't be defensive, just doubtful of my findings, if they
do that it would be a bad move on their part.
Like I have said, the rep wasn't anything like I remember them being.
 
ACES&8S said:
The new Lee Crimp Die works great::::
Which proves the first one is defective, regardless of what the Lee Rep said it would do.
He said it would do the same thing & I didn't know how to adjust it.
LOVE IT WHEN I AM HOLDING A FULL HOUSE.
I just know how the call will go, they won't be defensive, just doubtful of my findings, if they
do that it would be a bad move on their part.
Like I have said, the rep wasn't anything like I remember them being.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update. Glad that the new die worked out for you.
 
ACES&8S said:
The new Lee Crimp Die works great::::
Which proves the first one is defective, regardless of what the Lee Rep said it would do.
He said it would do the same thing & I didn't know how to adjust it.
LOVE IT WHEN I AM HOLDING A FULL HOUSE.
I just know how the call will go, they won't be defensive, just doubtful of my findings, if they
do that it would be a bad move on their part.
Like I have said, the rep wasn't anything like I remember them being.
Click to expand...
Now we look forward to your range reports! Idk what's available in your neck of the woods but you put a gameking through a larger varmint, (heavy coon or coyote) take some pictures, do the same with a fusion, and then discuss the results with the young huntress, comparing the differences, if she isn't confident in the results, (doubtful but possible) move to those 95 ballistic tips, and again I'd caution her not to shoot em too high or too far back.....
 
Found a reliable & consistent load for the Sierra 100 grain Spitzer boat tail Gameking, actually a couple of loads for it
in IMR4831 max & Varget max & H1000 max, all of which get 1" or a little better at 100 yards.
Told her Dad we need to have her here when the weather is right to shoot some which may be any evening this
next couple of days, got rain & wind coming this weekend.
Not stopping with this bullet got lots of info & advice from you guys to try.
If it was a 308 or 30-06 or 7Mag I would already have it running. Seems like a 243 is VERY different from other
calibers I load. It may just be me but it or the rifle doesn't like some standard loads, kind of touchy.
I haven't changed the scope focus so I may not be getting the best groups out of it, because the parallax is a little
off for me. I have to get her into some coyote or such just to find out what the bullet will do to animals compared
to the fusion like -horsey300- said.
 
Will send pics of the crimp die working plus some groups in a few days.
I only crimped a few with it to make sure it worked properly & better than the first one, then I went
with some of your suggestions & didn't crimp the last few loads at all.
 
ACES&8S said:
Found a reliable & consistent load for the Sierra 100 grain Spitzer boat tail Gameking, actually a couple of loads for it
in IMR4831 max & Varget max & H1000 max, all of which get 1" or a little better at 100 yards.
Told her Dad we need to have her here when the weather is right to shoot some which may be any evening this
next couple of days, got rain & wind coming this weekend.
Not stopping with this bullet got lots of info & advice from you guys to try.
If it was a 308 or 30-06 or 7Mag I would already have it running. Seems like a 243 is VERY different from other
calibers I load. It may just be me but it or the rifle doesn't like some standard loads, kind of touchy.
I haven't changed the scope focus so I may not be getting the best groups out of it, because the parallax is a little
off for me. I have to get her into some coyote or such just to find out what the bullet will do to animals compared
to the fusion like -horsey300- said.
Click to expand...
For 85+ I've been liking imr4451 but for 95 and 100 gr, h1000 is my fall back as i know it'll just shoot. Period. Temp stability, good velocity, accuracy at the top end, definitely a good choice! I had the 4451 on hand for some 85-90 gr loads but then one day I'm out of h1000, can't find any, throw some loads together with the 95s, and magic was made, I still restocked my h1000 first chance i got but now I'm eyeing the staball pretty hard...... it's a good time to be loading what you shoot lol!
 
horsey300 said:
For 85+ I've been liking imr4451 but for 95 and 100 gr, h1000 is my fall back as i know it'll just shoot.
Click to expand...
I tried the H1000 with the Sierra 100 grain spitzer bt & unfortunately only loaded 3 with it due to prepped fireformed cases running out. Two of the 3 touched but another
one went one & a half inches high left so I jus never got back to it.
Also, I don't know if it was the humidity or what, but, the H1000 actually bellowed smoke, almost like a black powder would do. The powder can is only 2 years old &
it was the first time I had opened it or even ever tried the H1000, it also didn't sound right, like it was less powerful than the others. Maybe the 22 inch barrel isn't
burning it all or something.
 
ACES&8S said:
I tried the H1000 with the Sierra 100 grain spitzer bt & unfortunately only loaded 3 with it due to prepped fireformed cases running out. Two of the 3 touched but another
one went one & a half inches high left so I jus never got back to it.
Also, I don't know if it was the humidity or what, but, the H1000 actually bellowed smoke, almost like a black powder would do. The powder can is only 2 years old &
it was the first time I had opened it or even ever tried the H1000, it also didn't sound right, like it was less powerful than the others. Maybe the 22 inch barrel isn't
burning it all or something.
Click to expand...
I burn 47 grains under 100 gr pills in a 20" tube (max load) sounds like something is amiss, coal, bad powder, not enough powder? My primers are plain Jane wlr, so I doubt that's an issue...... eta, maybe not enough neck tension? I've only seen smoke from not enough burn, and even my buddy's 18" is a flamethrower at worst with a max load of h1000....
 
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