no more than lovers, such as yourself, need to move on.
welcome to the high road,
murf
Here We Go Again
- Thread starter Bill460
- Start date
- Status
welcome to the high road,
murf
Zaydok Allen
Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2011
- Messages
- 13,274
Well at least this is a new thread and not mucking up the other one.
ontarget
Member
ALOT of what you say could apply to any of the gun manufacturers.
BUT... Haters gonna hate and I'm with you. I hate plastic striker fired pistols.
He thinks a half dozen problems = total
Coal Dragger
member
Well hopefully Colt's is able to actually correct all these issues and make the guns work right.
My hunch is this should've been about a $2K revolver in order to work right out of the box with that extra $500 going to some actual hand fitting and strict function testing.
If Colt's doesn't turn this around fast and make a lot of folks who spent hard earned $$$ happy, then this new model will be a big failure.
I said it before and it's tracking like I thought when I compared this to the Remington R51. So far the Python is a shiny expensive revolver equivalent to the R51. That makes me sad because I really wanted to buy one if they were good.
My hunch is this should've been about a $2K revolver in order to work right out of the box with that extra $500 going to some actual hand fitting and strict function testing.
If Colt's doesn't turn this around fast and make a lot of folks who spent hard earned $$$ happy, then this new model will be a big failure.
I said it before and it's tracking like I thought when I compared this to the Remington R51. So far the Python is a shiny expensive revolver equivalent to the R51. That makes me sad because I really wanted to buy one if they were good.
Coal Dragger
member
Correct a majority of consumers including gun people are unwilling to pay for quality. We are addicted to cheap goods.
I read somewhere that it used to be expected that a quality firearm used to cost about 2 weeks worth of wages for an average income individual before taxes, now I am not sure how this number was arrived at but that is certainly not the expectation these days.
I read somewhere that it used to be expected that a quality firearm used to cost about 2 weeks worth of wages for an average income individual before taxes, now I am not sure how this number was arrived at but that is certainly not the expectation these days.
S&W had a recall on the original 586\686. There was also an issue with the Shield 40 magazine falling out under recoil at first, or something like that. Ruger recently had a recall on some American pistols for premature wear. Also on the MK IV target 22 for a safety issue. Sig Sauer issued a mandatory recall on their MCX rifles a couple years ago and has a voluntary recall for parts updates on the new P320. Springfield Armory recalled the XDs when it was new, and Browning had a shotgun recall a couple years ago. Even Glock perfection has required a recall here & there. I could Google more gun makers and probably find many more recalls.
Many have said the new Pythons are well made guns with an excellent fit and finish along with a great trigger pull. I hope the problem is minor and easily fixed. I hope they succeed. More gun makers means more choice for consumers. Well made competition helps keep the other guys from slacking too much. I don't see a reason for wishing the Python fails and don't see a downside of this all turns out OK for Colt...... Full disclosure. I don't own any Colts currently, don't own Colts stock and have no bias for or against them
Many have said the new Pythons are well made guns with an excellent fit and finish along with a great trigger pull. I hope the problem is minor and easily fixed. I hope they succeed. More gun makers means more choice for consumers. Well made competition helps keep the other guys from slacking too much. I don't see a reason for wishing the Python fails and don't see a downside of this all turns out OK for Colt...... Full disclosure. I don't own any Colts currently, don't own Colts stock and have no bias for or against them
Some edits have been made.
There's a huge difference between being anti-gun and being upset about a product with quality control problems.
There's a huge difference in being upset with a particular gun manufacturer and being anti-gun.
The idea that a person upset about the 2020 Python or upset with Colt over the 2020 Python must obviously be anti-gun is not accurate and it is not going to become a topic for discussion.
There's a huge difference between being anti-gun and being upset about a product with quality control problems.
There's a huge difference in being upset with a particular gun manufacturer and being anti-gun.
The idea that a person upset about the 2020 Python or upset with Colt over the 2020 Python must obviously be anti-gun is not accurate and it is not going to become a topic for discussion.
D.B. Cooper
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2016
- Messages
- 4,396
I seriously do not understand this mentality. I am by no means wealthy, and I have to stretch my dollars. But I appreciate American craftsmanship. When I look at something, I can see how much labor is in it. And that labor has value to me. I don't get how folks can expect hand fit quality for stamped sheet metal prices.
OP
OP
Bill460
Member
A lot of people would, myself included. As I said, unforeseen design flaws, (like what happened with the R-51), can happen in any design. But that's not what we're talking about here. How difficult is it to check that the cylinders are not opening on new guns right out of the box? Or notice the polishing method they're employing is nicking and dinging up the barrel crowns? (That should have been caught on the first gun they polished that way). Or noticing that cylinders won't turn when the trigger is pulled. Or observing light primer strikes on the first cylinder full of rounds fired.... Resulting in misfires. All these thing happened to customers guns the first time they were fired.
How difficult is that to check? How long could it possibly take? 2 eyes, 2 hands and all of 5 minutes. But Colt feels that's just too much for them to invest in a $1.5K gun. They're already admitting to having to change the method they are using to polish the barrel. So it doesn't nick up the barrel crown. How in God's name did they not catch that until they started getting guns back complaining about it?
I'm not "hating" on Colt. And people have every right to choose any gun they like. Be it Colt, Ruger S&W, Springfield, Glock, or whatever. But this isn't about personal preference. Or what gun you "like", "dislike", or "prefer". It's about selling crap at $1.5K a pop. And yes, I hate paying good, hard earned money for crap. As anyone should with an ounce of common sense. And I don't give a damn who makes it.
All of this. Every bit of it points to sloppy manufacturing methods. And even worse quality control. And that is not something people who are paying a grand and a half for a new sixgun, should have to deal with.... Ever. Especially from a manufacturer that's been making them for the last 169 years.
Old Dog
Member
First of all, I'd bet most who are plunking down the cash (or credit card) for a modestly-priced revolver know full what they're getting into, and have decided they can afford this product.
Anyway, I submit that "garbage" is relative. There's a lot of expensive motor vehicles sold that require an awful lot of post-purchase attention (your testimonial about your own cars not withstanding). Motion pictures are being made for millions and millions of dollars that are crap. Do the investors in the picture get refunded when it tanks at the box office? Do you get refunded for the time you spend watching this garbage, let along the price of your ticket? Don't even get me started on popular music. How about the sheer planned obsolescence of every single household appliance you buy? At least when buying your "garbage" firearms, if there is an issue, consumers have the option to send them back and get them fixed. Most of the garbage foisted on today's consumers is non-returnable, non-refundable.
Your hyperbole does not further your cause much. By most accounts I've seen thus far, the new Python is being favorably received and viewed by its buyers. Almost all accounts of the new revolver attest to its fit, finish and trigger. Those who've shot them, have been impressed by the action and accuracy, the reports of a few not withstanding.
Labeling any product garbage -- an item that you yourself have not purchased with your hard-earned dollars, nor even attempted to use -- only serves to depict you as an individual with an axe to grind against a particular product or company. Honestly, I cannot fathom why you speak against a product - you have ZERO personal experience with -- and its maker so vociferously and vindictively. I'm beyond defending the product or the company, I'm simply hoisting the BS flag in response to your rants.
Old Dog
Member
Sigh. Yes, yes .. you are.
bdickens
Member
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I just think there's an awful lot of bellyaching from folks who didn't buy one (and probably wouldn't have anyway).
I agree. It's the Walmart mentality. People are cheap and typically would rather have 1000 pieces of crap than 20 of higher quality.
OP
OP
Bill460
Member
It's got nothing to do with "affordability", or how they paid for it. The damn thing should work right when they get it home. And no, unless the purchaser is a gun enthusiast, and frequents Internet gun forums like this one, they're not going to know, "what they're getting into". The dealer they're buying it from sure as hell isn't likely to tell them. They want a sale. And for most people, $1,500.00 for a revolver is not, "modestly priced".
So now you want to compare what you think is / are bad music and movies, to expensive, poorly manufactured double action revolvers? Are you really being serious? And you want to sit there and call my factual comments about this gun "hyperbole". Are you making this stuff up as you go along? Or have you just finally run out of B.S. and double talk?
What good is a shiny finish, or a good trigger if the thing won't go bang when you pull it? Or if you can't even open the cylinder to load it when you take it out of the box? Look, if you want to keep B.S.'ing yourself about a gun you can play Russian Roulette with all 6 chambers loaded, and have a better than average chance of winning, be my guest. I prefer call it what it is thus far. CRAP.
Just don't try to insult my, or anyone else's intelligence with your constant, head in the sand attitude, acting like Kevin Bacon in, "Animal House" telling everyone all is well. The FACT is this gun has a LOT of problems. It's had them since they boxed and shipped the first one. And it shouldn't have if the people who built it would have paid the slightest bit of attention. Now, you can keep coming back trying to act like this is all nothing. You're not even fooling yourself, let alone me or anyone else.
There are already several people who have all experienced the same thing. Dealers have reported they are so poorly put together, they can't even get the cylinders open on the damn things when they take it out of the box. Many have reported banged up muzzle crowns caused by a polishing process Colt has admitted that it had to change....... But only after they got enough customers guns back. It should have been discovered and corrected after the first gun. Again, no one either cared, or wasn't paying attention. Either is inexcusable.
Colt has issued a recall to it's distributors to get at least 100 of these things back. I'm willing to bet you there are going to be more. A lot more. Buying a $1,500.00 revolver shouldn't be a crap shoot. Thus far this one is. And it is because of shoddy manufacturing and poor quality control. Nothing more. I would have considered purchasing one. But not now. And I'll guarantee you I'm not alone.
And right now I have no idea when, or even if I'll ever have the consumer confidence to buy one. Perhaps a couple years down the road.... Assuming Colt is still around to sell them. And that's a damn shame for a company that is known world wide by it's name and products. If they get known for much more of this nonsense, they may not continue to exist at all.
By now I'm sure your sugar coating is boiling on the stove. So you can go ahead and try to cover all of this with it.
Last edited:
OP
OP
Bill460
Member
Why would anyone buy anything that thus far has shown problems? They would have to be nuts. The people who have can only hope theirs works, and continues to. That's not something that should be in your head after you drop $1,500.00 on a gun...... Any gun. Let alone one that has up until now, had a reputation for quality.
ColtPythonElite
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2011
- Messages
- 10,470
I didn't want one at first, but all the negative hype over a couple of guns with a problem now makes me want to try one for myself.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Probably the ones who bought one before the internet went nuts about what crap they are. Ya know, before people like yourself got it stuck in their craw.
OP
OP
Bill460
Member
So..... Just to be sure I'm reading you correctly, or you didn't misspeak. You originally didn't want one. But now, because several owners are having problems with them not working correctly.... or at all... And dealers and distributors have been contacted by Colt, to recall their inventory back to the factory, because of these operational issues. Now.... Now you want to buy one?
OP
OP
Bill460
Member
Yeah, I feel sorry for those folks. I hope their guns don't, "stick in their craw". If they quit running I'm sure they would much rather send them back to Colt. And give them better instructions on where to stick them.
Zaydok Allen
Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2011
- Messages
- 13,274
This is an interesting notion and I think there is a lot to it. I have 16 employees and I am older than most of them. What I hear from them is complaints that everything is so expensive, they have student loan debt, and they can't afford anything. Meanwhile, I am willing to pay them about as much overtime as they are willing to work at time and a half. So these folks have the potential to earn anywhere from $25 to $41 per hour for anything over 40 hours depending on their pay rate. I have a few employees who take advantage and earn extra money. However the ones I hear complaining that they can't afford anything and they are in debt consistently work their 40 hours, or a very minimal amount of overtime, and then they go home. I am totally baffled, because most of them don't have kids.
The ones who don't work any extra hours seem much more concerned with "living their lives", which from my observations means socializing, than securing their futures, or the material goods they want/need. Everyone has to live how they want and do what makes them happy, and there is a big difference between want and need, but what I can't stand is listening to them complain. They have the means, but not the will to achieve their goals.
Granted, that's a very small sample of our society, but this lack of drive seems somewhat widespread based on conversations I've had, and seems to have bred a society of people who are just content to settle for "good enough". It's made them penny wise and dollar stupid. The throw away mentality seems somewhat to have translated to the firearm's industry in what they are willing to spend. The notion of saving long enough to afford what they want doesn't even enter some people's minds. I mean some folks just have other priorities, and that's fine. It just means they want something else more.
Unfortunately though for us, that means the market for fine firearms has dwindled due to a lack of demand, so the manufacturers have had to cheapen everything up, because not that many of us are willing to pay for them.
I don't yet have an assortment of guns that are custom, or even high end compared to many gun buyers, but what I own ain't bad, and I'd rather have a few really nice guns I want than a bunch of cheap crap. I'm in a purging to fund nice guns mode right now. I wish I'd started buying guns with a completely different mindset back in the day.
Last edited:
Try Sako.
I have a Sako built Weatherby. I was not even aware Sako even had a US Production Facility now much less the level of craftsmanship.
- Status
