PWC
Member
Very basic question; I see a lot of discussion about handguns with alpha designations and I don't understand the differences. What is the difference/purpose of J, K, L...
What's the difference...
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bihj
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Not really sure what you're to but I suspect it's frame sizes of Smith & Wesson revolvers.
GBExpat
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AK103K
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The difference is size of the frames on S&W revolvers.
J is currently the smallest (they had an I frame at one time that was smaller I believe).
K & L are medium frames and usually chambered in 38/357, and some 44's.
They had some issues with the K frames in the stouter calibers and beefed things up a little with the L frames.
The N frames are the large frames and span the 38's through 45acp.
I believe they are calling the frames on the 500's an X frame, but Im not positve there.
J is currently the smallest (they had an I frame at one time that was smaller I believe).
K & L are medium frames and usually chambered in 38/357, and some 44's.
They had some issues with the K frames in the stouter calibers and beefed things up a little with the L frames.
The N frames are the large frames and span the 38's through 45acp.
I believe they are calling the frames on the 500's an X frame, but Im not positve there.
Telekinesis
Member
J, K, and L are three different frame sizes from Smith and Wesson revolvers. These are just designations used by one manufacturer to differentiate between frame sizes and are not really applicable to other manufacturers or other guns in general.
These are usually referred to as “_ Frame” (J frame, k frame, etc). J frames are the smallest revolver frame made by S&W (think snubnose revolver, but they can have different barrel lengths) while K frames and J frames are different versions of a medium sized frame. There is also an N frame (large) and a X frame (extra large), and probably a few others.
Generally you will see larger diameter projectiles in larger frames.
These are usually referred to as “_ Frame” (J frame, k frame, etc). J frames are the smallest revolver frame made by S&W (think snubnose revolver, but they can have different barrel lengths) while K frames and J frames are different versions of a medium sized frame. There is also an N frame (large) and a X frame (extra large), and probably a few others.
Generally you will see larger diameter projectiles in larger frames.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Colt has also used letter designations at times. The vintage Python is an I-frame, the Mk3s are J-frames, and the Det. Spl. And Diamondback are D-frames, etc....
Starter52
Member
For blued guns:
J frame S&W revolvers have model numbers in the 30's such as Mod 34 and Mod 36.
K frame are in the 10's, Model 10, Model 14 etc.
N frame are usually in the 20's. Model 25, Model 29.
J frame S&W revolvers have model numbers in the 30's such as Mod 34 and Mod 36.
K frame are in the 10's, Model 10, Model 14 etc.
N frame are usually in the 20's. Model 25, Model 29.
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Unless they are stainless, they they start with a 6.
FlSwampRat
Member
Heard a guy ages ago in a gun shop say that they stuck the 6 on there "cause it's the number that looks like an S".
Smith's lettering made sense because as the sizes went up the letters progressed the frames got larger.
Glock on the other hand...... Other than the 17 taking 17 rounds in the mag, the other model numbers don't seem to make any logical connection to the gun to which they're referring to my brain.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
IIRC, the G17 name is a coincidence, and Glock models numbers were (at least in the early days), assigned according to their design or drawing numbers.
jar
Contributing Member
The Colt 1903 was an "M" frame while the 1908 Vest Pocket was an "N" frame.
It might have been in one of Jinks books, but somebody explained that years ago, in the days of the telegraph, the salesmen who travelled the country sent orders back to the factory by telegrams. The cost of a telegram was determined by the number of letters/words/numbers, so the shorter you could make the telegram, the less you had to pay. As a result, the Smith and Wesson sales force came up with the lettering/numbering system in order to communicate with the home office as cheaply and quickly as possible. Not quite sure that I'm 100% ready to accept that, but it's a good story.
Jim Watson
Member
Glock 17 was said to be Gaston's 17th patented product.
Others were numbered in order of introduction, for a while, anyhow. Does that mean they had the .22 in the works before the rotating barrel Polizei gun?
Colt Gov't Model is their O frame, Single Action Army the P frame.
Others were numbered in order of introduction, for a while, anyhow. Does that mean they had the .22 in the works before the rotating barrel Polizei gun?
Colt Gov't Model is their O frame, Single Action Army the P frame.
Yep.
FlSwampRat
Member
Yeah, I'm aware of the coinkydink about the 17, but picking a model number from some in house number that the public is unaware of is silly to me. Again, IMHO. It's like saying "Okay, we had the first full size .40 cal come off the assembly line on a Tuesday afternoon so we'll call it the TPM."
Just seems so odd to my brain that the smaller version of the 17 is a bigger number. Call it old age if you want.
SwampRat,
It may not make sense but they (Glock) were pretty consistent about it for a while.
Smaller versions of the 22 are the 23 & 27. Smaller 20 is the 29. Smaller 21 is the 30 and smaller yet is the 36. I wont get into the newest ones. They've gone off the rails with those. (lol)
Dave
It may not make sense but they (Glock) were pretty consistent about it for a while.
Smaller versions of the 22 are the 23 & 27. Smaller 20 is the 29. Smaller 21 is the 30 and smaller yet is the 36. I wont get into the newest ones. They've gone off the rails with those. (lol)
Dave
FlSwampRat
Member
If I had been in charge the 17 would be a model 9 with the 19 becoming the Model 9 compact and the 26 the Model 9 Subcompact.
It's a super head-scratcher to me that there's one digit between 17 and 19 (18) and 6 between 19 and 26. Two digits up from 19 is 21 and that's a 10mm. Perhaps I'm channeling my inner Spock, but that's just too dang illogical.
Glock is still numbering their guns exactly the way they always have. They are all in chronological order. The G17 was the 1st gun introduced, the G18 is the full auto version of the 17, the 19 is the compact.
The G20 in 10mm was the 4th gun introduced by Glock followed by the G21 in 45. Next came the G22 in 40, the G23 is the compact version of the G22. The G24 is the long slide version of the G22.
The G25 is their 1st 380, but it never caught on. Everyone knows about the G26 and G27. The G28 was a small 380, but due to import laws it was not legal to import into the USA. The newer G42 met import requirements
You get the idea. Some numbers appear to have been skipped over because those models aren't sold in the USA. Sometimes guns may be developed in the factory, but introduced out of order. The only possible exception that I can find is the G44 which just came out. There are already G45 through G48's out there. Just a guess, but I bet the G44 was designed before the others, but for unknown reasons they held off on introducing it.
The next Glock will be a G49. Rumor is that it will be a single stack 10mm.
FlSwampRat
Member
I always wondered about the Glock 17 that I did about WD40. In Glock's case what happened to 1 through 16.
So someone new to Glock just has to buy The History Of Glock Production to figure it out.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
I miss the days when car names were decipherable......an SL560 was an S class coupe with a 5.6L, a Ferrari 328 was a 3.2L 8 cylinder, a 325i was a 3 series with an injected 2.5l, etc.....
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
Why does any gun manufacturer use the numbers, names and nomenclatures that they do? Because it works for them.
When I first started learning about Smith & Wesson revolvers their numbering system and frame designations baffled the heck out of me. Glocks, not so much. Every gun makers nomenclatures are baffling until you become familiar with them.
When I first started learning about Smith & Wesson revolvers their numbering system and frame designations baffled the heck out of me. Glocks, not so much. Every gun makers nomenclatures are baffling until you become familiar with them.
aarondhgraham
Member
Here's a visual for you,,,
Top Left: N-Frame Model 629 .44 Magnum (Jezebel)
Top Right: L-Frame Model 686 .357 Magnum (Bridget)
Bottom Left: K-Frame Model 67 .38 Special (Morgana)
Bottom Right: J-Frame Model 63 .22 LR (Lilith)
Hope this clarifies it for you.
Aarond
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Top Left: N-Frame Model 629 .44 Magnum (Jezebel)
Top Right: L-Frame Model 686 .357 Magnum (Bridget)
Bottom Left: K-Frame Model 67 .38 Special (Morgana)
Bottom Right: J-Frame Model 63 .22 LR (Lilith)
Hope this clarifies it for you.
Aarond
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Part of the OPs question was what's the difference and purpose. The medium sized K frame was a great size for a cop to carry, home defense and target use.. The shorter barreled ones can be concealed but still have a full sized frame. The window in the frame that accommodates the cylinder can only be so big. The bigger N frame was built to handle cartridges bigger than 38 caliber in general. A bigger frame allows a bigger window which allows a bigger cylinder. Initially these would have been 357 magnum 44 specials and 45 caliber. Eventually the 44 magnum was built in this frame. The J frame is the smallest current S&W frame. It was made small for concealed and backup gun use. It used to be that bigger frames were needed not only to accommodate the bigger cartridges, but to handle the power of those cartridge. Initially the 357 was only made in the large N frame due to its power, not size. As metallurgy and heat treating got better they introduced the 357 in a K frame, and now even a J frame
K-Frame was not originally intended for the .357 Mag. Once chambered for it you were fine shooting a few thousand rounds of Magnums and 10's of thousands of .38 and +P but officers that shot 10s of thousands of rounds of full-house .357 Magnum had issues. The L-Frame was built for continuous use of full house Magnums. Basically the replacement for the large N-Frame .357 Mag now that metallurgy allowed equivalent longevity in a smaller platform.
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