How do you know when a new cartridge has made it?

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I own a TC Compass in 6.5 CM because I won it as a door prize. Honestly though I think it does check a lot of boxes for a deer caliber. Inherently accurate, modest recoil, flat shooting and effective at longer ranges. I use it occasionally as a bean field rifle but more typical is for me to hunt where max range is 60 yards with a nearly 150 year old caliber.
 
Generally speaking, anything that encourages 'Skeeter and Booger to take longer shots when they're "hunting" are bad things.
 
Every year or two it seems like the manufacturers come up with the latest and greatest new cartridge. Some make it, some don't, and some end up as zombies (still around, not widely adopted or available). It looks to me that 6.5 Creedmore, for example, is popular enough that it has made it and will continue to be available for the forseeable. I hear enough mention of it and enough manufacturers have come up with rifles, ammo, components, dies, etc. Other than really, really clear examples like this, how do we know a cartridge has made it?

The genesis of my question is that I like the idea to 350 legend, but I am not eager to join the parade until I know this will not end up being an orphan.

This is all my own humble opinion and the way I look at such things, everyone is entitled to their own ways in their own life. I'm not judging others.

I am very wary of things new to the market whose purchase is a crapshoot on whether you'll still be able to use it conveniently in 5 years or so. By "conveniently" I mean not having to machine my own cases and whittle bullets down from billet lead. I have no desire to own multi hundred dollar paperweights ("obsolete" guns of recent manufacture) when some manufacturer decides the new .368 Whizzbang is no longer commercially viable and quits making them or the ammo to feed them.

Besides that aforementioned risk of obsolescence , I rarely see that same multi hundred dollar difference in performance between some cartridges in similar calibers. Meaning, unless I see significant improvement in a new cartridge over an established one, why cough up multiple Benjamins taking a flyer on somebody's eureka moment?

I'm not a benchrest shooter trying for 5 shot caliber size holes at 100 yards. Going from 2 MOA to 1 MOA just isn't worth it to me when someone proclaims a newly engineered bulllet/caliber combo will halve my group size at long range. Everyone votes for their favorite things with their money as ballots and marketplaces can be whimsical and capricious.

The calibers in my collection are .22LR, .380, .357, 9mm, and.44 mag, all tried and true calibers that I have confidence aren't going away any time soon. I think my wife's five seven is a bit iffy but that was her pick.
 
I think my wife's five seven is a bit iffy but that was her pick.
Ruger just announced their Model 57. That is going to help your cause considerably!
I jumped on the .308 Marlin Express train when it came out. They quit making them along time ago. Fortunately I bought a crapload of ammo back then. It is a really good deer killing round. I'm still waiting for someone else to produce another rifle in the caliber. It is dead as of now.
 
Cartridges, not calibers.

I've even seen some so called "gun writers" make that mistake. I'm starting to wonder if the two words have become interchangeable. Personally don't see how they can having a technical background but maybe I'm just getting old and things are moving faster than I am.;)

Jack O'Connor would slap you stupid.
 
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How do you know?

How long does it have to be popular? 25 years, 50 years, 100 years? Some of the cartridges that people think have made the big leagues won't be popular in 25 years. People will tire of them and go back to the tried and true 50 and 100 year old cartridges. As gun manufacturers struggle to sell new guns and used guns endure, the ammo companies will build what they can sell. The prices for new unproven cartridges keeps increasing and eventually they become unavailable unless you happen to manufacture it yourself. Paying a dollar a round for a new cartridge is pretty unbelievable for me but I guess some people do that. New cartridges come and go all the time because mostly they can't significantly do anything an older cartridge can't. 9x19 Parabellum and .308 Win are two examples, 118 and 64 years old respectively. Marketing new cartridges is a fool's errand because most won't be supported by ammo manufacturers in the near future. Personally, I wouldn't buy a new firearm chambered for any cartridge that isn't at least 50 years old and in good supply. Of course that's just my opinion.
 
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I've even seen some so called "gun writers" make that mistake. I'm starting to wonder if the two words have become interchangeable. Personally don't see how they can having a technical background but maybe I'm just getting old and things are moving faster than I am.;)

Jack O'Connor would slap you stupid.

If one goes into the store and asks for some 9mm caliber rounds they'll probably get lucky and get 9mm cartridges, but go in and ask for .30 caliber ammo and you'll likely end up with .30 Carbine which isn't going to work well in your .300 Win Mag.

As a reloader and caster you learn real quick the difference between caliber and cartridge.
 
This is all my own humble opinion and the way I look at such things, everyone is entitled to their own ways in their own life. I'm not judging others.
The calibers in my collection are .22LR, .380, .357, 9mm, and.44 mag, all tried and true calibers that I have confidence aren't going away any time soon. I think my wife's five seven is a bit iffy but that was her pick.

Cartridges, not calibers.

I've even seen some so called "gun writers" make that mistake. I'm starting to wonder if the two words have become interchangeable. Personally don't see how they can having a technical background but maybe I'm just getting old and things are moving faster than I am.;)
Jack O'Connor would slap you stupid.

I was going to let this go but now that CoalTrain49 has chimed in I have to reply.
In my original post, and perhaps I wasn't clear, I meant that I had 5 different caliber firearms in my collection with multiple guns in the same caliber. Since caliber refers to the size of the cartridge that the gun takes I was making a point that I had few different calibers in a larger number of firearms. I have a great deal more cartridges than I do firearms. I was repeating calibers across multiple firearm platforms.

I think it is correct to say I have, for example, a .357 caliber Ruger Blackhawk.
Or, at least Ruger thinks it is.

DSCN1900.JPG

Now bullets in boxes always refer to themselves as cartridges (I have a bunch of pictures of that to prove that point) but many gun makers refer to the size of the bullet their gun takes as Cal XX.

calibers.jpg
 
If one goes into the store and asks for some 9mm caliber rounds they'll probably get lucky and get 9mm cartridges, but go in and ask for .30 caliber ammo and you'll likely end up with .30 Carbine which isn't going to work well in your .300 Win Mag.

As a reloader and caster you learn real quick the difference between caliber and cartridge.
I agree that bullets are cartridges, but I have yet to see a gun stamped "xx cartridge" and I was referring in my original reply to my guns not my bullets.
From a very basic guide for people working for our company who aren't familiar with guns:
For example, this is hardly a definitive list, but these are all .30 caliber rifle rounds:

.30 Carbine

.30 Nosler

.30 RAR

.30 Remington

.30 Remington AR

.30 TC

.30-30 Winchester (.30 WCF)

.30-40 Krag (.30 Army)

.30-06 Springfield

.30-03

.300 AAC Blackout (7.62×35mm)

.300 Remington SA Ultra Mag

.300 Ruger Compact Magnum

.30 Newton

.30 R Blaser

.300 Savage

.300 Weatherby Magnum

.300 Winchester Magnum

.300 Winchester Short Magnum

.300 Remington Ultra Magnum

.300 H&H Magnum

.30-378 Weatherby Magnum

.300 H&H Flanged

.303 British

.303 Savage

.307 Winchester

.308 Marlin Express

.308 Norma Magnum

.308 Winchester

.308×1.5" Barnes

.310 Cadet

So yes, one must give someone the full nomenclature to be sure to get the proper round/cartridge/bullet.
 
How do you know?

How long does it have to be popular? 25 years, 50 years, 100 years? Some of the cartridges that people think have made the big leagues won't be popular in 25 years. People will tire of them and go back to the tried and true 50 and 100 year old cartridges. As gun manufacturers struggle to sell new guns and used guns endure, the ammo companies will build what they can sell. The prices for new unproven cartridges keeps increasing and eventually they become unavailable unless you happen to manufacture it yourself. Paying a dollar a round for a new cartridge is pretty unbelievable for me but I guess some people do that. New cartridges come and go all the time because mostly they can't significantly do anything an older cartridge can't. 9x19 Parabellum and .308 Win are two examples, 118 and 64 years old respectively. Marketing new cartridges is a fool's errand because most won't be supported by ammo manufacturers in the near future. Personally, I wouldn't buy a new firearm chambered for any cartridge that isn't at least 50 years old and in good supply. Of course that's just my opinion.

Wow IMHO that's no fun limiting one's self to only 50+ year old cartridges. There are plenty of old cartridge that are all find and dandy. I have some old ones in my collection for sure. Some are tried and true 22 LR, 22 WMR, 38 Special, 45 ACP, 30-06, 270 Win, 410 Bore, 12 ga 2.75" & 3.00", and some are nearly obsolete 38 S&W/38-200, 8.15x46R, 7.65x53.

That said I have a bunch of cartridges that are less than 50 years old and in some cases significantly less than 50 years old and they get used more than the older cartridges in my case.

450 Bushmaster (2007) My primary deer gun for the past three years
300 Blackout (2011) My general purpose ride around in the UTV/tractor carbine
10mm Auto (1983) took my first two revolver kills on deer with this cartridge
40S&W (1990) USPSA, carry
30 Remington AR (2008) yeah its nearly dead already but I just built one and am looking forward to working up a load for it. As long as I got brass and dies it's not dead for me.
12 gauge 3.5-inch (1988) My turkey gun
6mm Creedmoor (2007) my newest gun for precision rifle matches and similar long range shooting.

Variety is the spice of life, and shooting...
 
I was going to let this go but now that CoalTrain49 has chimed in I have to reply.
In my original post, and perhaps I wasn't clear, I meant that I had 5 different caliber firearms in my collection with multiple guns in the same caliber. Since caliber refers to the size of the cartridge that the gun takes I was making a point that I had few different calibers in a larger number of firearms. I have a great deal more cartridges than I do firearms. I was repeating calibers across multiple firearm platforms.

I think it is correct to say I have, for example, a .357 caliber Ruger Blackhawk.
Or, at least Ruger thinks it is.

View attachment 886189

Now bullets in boxes always refer to themselves as cartridges (I have a bunch of pictures of that to prove that point) but many gun makers refer to the size of the bullet their gun takes as Cal XX.

View attachment 886190

I load my 9mm ammo with .357 bullets. So does that make it a .357 caliber pistol?
 
I have often wondered if the 460 and 500 S&W cartridges have really made it yet. They are mainly only supported by S&W. I would have thought they'd be in lever actions by now.
 
I agree that bullets are cartridges

No, bullets are not cartridges. I can see that you don't reload. That's OK because most people who shoot, don't. I'm not trying to take a superior attitude here because I know that a lot of people that shoot don't understand how ammo is manufactured. Texas 10mm and many others on this forum build our own ammo from components. We have to know this stuff or we lose fingers.

Bullets are the projectiles and a component of the cartridge. I don't care what Ruger stamps on their barrels. They build crappy barrels anyway. I can put the same 158 gr. .358 dia. bullet into a 38 spl. that I put into a 357 Mag. and often do. Those are two very different cartridges. The bullet is not the cartridge. The cartridge is the combination of the bullet, the case, the primer, and the powder in the case. The cartridge is the thing that you buy in the ammo section at Cabelas. The bullet is the thing that you buy in the reloading section at Cabelas. Bullets are not cartridges.

My suggestion is this. If you want to understand the terminology, buy a reloading manual. Everyone has to start someplace if they truly want to understand how this stuff works. You can find a used manual on ebay for $15.
 
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Wow IMHO that's no fun limiting one's self to only 50+ year old cartridges. There are plenty of old cartridge that are all find and dandy. I have some old ones in my collection for sure. Some are tried and true 22 LR, 22 WMR, 38 Special, 45 ACP, 30-06, 270 Win, 410 Bore, 12 ga 2.75" & 3.00", and some are nearly obsolete 38 S&W/38-200, 8.15x46R, 7.65x53.

That said I have a bunch of cartridges that are less than 50 years old and in some cases significantly less than 50 years old and they get used more than the older cartridges in my case.

450 Bushmaster (2007) My primary deer gun for the past three years
300 Blackout (2011) My general purpose ride around in the UTV/tractor carbine
10mm Auto (1983) took my first two revolver kills on deer with this cartridge
40S&W (1990) USPSA, carry
30 Remington AR (2008) yeah its nearly dead already but I just built one and am looking forward to working up a load for it. As long as I got brass and dies it's not dead for me.
12 gauge 3.5-inch (1988) My turkey gun
6mm Creedmoor (2007) my newest gun for precision rifle matches and similar long range shooting.

Variety is the spice of life, and shooting...

I hear that.:D

Lots to explore out there and I'm not dissing any of that. Everyone has their passion.

I shoot a lot and reload so I'm looking at the economy of scale. Seems the old cartridges (50 years plus) have everything I want.

Instead of 300 blk I shoot 30 carbine.

Instead of 224 Valkyrie I shoot .223 Rem.

Instead of 40 I shoot 9x19.

Instead of 10mm I shoot 45 ACP.

I'm all about the economy of the reload. I'm too stupid to see the difference except in cost. :)
 
I load my 9mm ammo with .357 bullets. So does that make it a .357 caliber pistol?
What's stamped on the cartridge case?
.38, .357 and 9mm bullets are virtually the same size. Learned that when I was reloading for my .357.
But once again, the post I made referring to my various calibers was referring to my firearms, not my ammo.
 
I think it is correct to say I have, for example, a .357 caliber Ruger Blackhawk.
No, that would be incorrect. The correct nomenclature would be Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Magnum caliber, or more correctly, .357 S&W Magnum. Ruger has stamped that Blackhawk correctly. Only Black Powder arms are correctly denoted by the caliber only, without a cartridge name. Many gun manufacturers incorrectly mark their guns, such as the Colt .380 in the middle of your montage of gun markings. The correct marking could be .380 ACP, .380 Auto, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Short, 9mm Corto, 9x17mm, or 9mm Browning or 9mm Browning Court.
I get what you are saying, but especially as a reloader, you must realize why CoalTrain49 is insistent on getting the nomenclature correct, and i am in agreement with him.
 
What's stamped on the cartridge case?
.38, .357 and 9mm bullets are virtually the same size. Learned that when I was reloading for my .357.
But once again, the post I made referring to my various calibers was referring to my firearms, not my ammo.

Why not describe your firearms by the cartridge they were designed to shoot?. The barrel stamp indicates that the firearm was designed to be used with 357 Mag ammo. That would mean that the chamber was cut and would support the pressure of 357 Mag ammo. Caliber by definition "is the diameter of the bullet or other projectile in decimals of an inch or millimeters; the nominal or approximate diameter of a bore expressed similarly". Also, a cartridge is "a complete unit of ammunition". That's right out of the hornady manual.

Now if you want to continue describing your firearms by caliber that's fine with me, but most people would describe them by the cartridge they were designed to shoot. When someone tells me they have a 30 caliber rifle that doesn't tell me much. It could be a 30 Carbine or a .308 Win Mag, huge difference but they both launch a .308 caliber bullet.

99.9% of barrel stamps refer to the ammo or cartridge to be used, not the caliber. Whoever stamped those Ruger barrels and that Colt barrel was a rookie. If firearms mfg's can't get it right it's no wonder people wander around confused.

OaO
 
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Why not describe your firearms by the cartridge they were designed to shoot?.
That is what I did.
The calibers in my collection are .22LR, .380, .357, 9mm, and.44 mag, all tried and true calibers that I have confidence aren't going away any time soon. I think my wife's five seven is a bit iffy but that was her pick.

.22 LR, not 22 caliber. I specified it wasn't .22 short, .22 long etc, etc.
.380 Do you really need me to say ACP? Is there another .380 in anyone's list? Not in any list of ammo in my Shooter's Bible.
9mm Yes, .380 is 9mm Kurz, but I've been dealing in firearms for over 30 years and I have never heard anyone refer to .380 ACP as 9mm Kurz.
.357 Do you really need "Magnum" attached to that?
44 Mag Do you really need "Remington" on that for clarity?
Please note that I didn't say 30 caliber, I am aware of the differences. Please see post 61.
I can't see how anyone could misconstrue what cartridge I was referring to by what I posted. But I wasn't referring to cartridges, I was referring to guns that use certain cartridges. I have more than one gun in each, so saying I have .357's in my small collection, is it confusing to someone about the gun? Sometimes the same model name from a manufacturer comes in various calibers. Saying I have a Colt Python, one knows what cartridge it shoots. Saying I have a Ruger Blackhawk isn't quite as revealing.
If I had a Para Ordinance 1911, a Colt Anaconda, and a Browning Hi-Power on a table and I asked you, a knowledgeable shooter, to hand me the .44 would you be confused?
I think that in casual conversation it's wrong to take verbal shortcuts. We have a whole list of abbreviations, another verbal shortcut, stickied so someone would know what 2A means. So someone doesn't have to type out Second Amendment. Or should we not use contractions?

If someone says it's 9 O'clock, do you really need them to clarify AM or PM?

99.9% of barrel stamps refer to the ammo or cartridge to be used, not the caliber. Whoever stamped those Ruger barrels and that Colt barrel was a rookie. If firearms mfg's can't get it right it's no wonder people wander around confused.
OaO

So if you're looking over a group of guns at a gun show with some friends and they all fire the same cartridge, say a Python, a Model 27 Smith and a Model 19 Smith and one of your companions comments "Hey, those are some good looking .357's!" would you correct them because they're confused?

I am not a fan of being overly pedantic and I think in the context of what I was saying what I actually said was neither confusing nor ignorant to say on my part. I don't think anyone was confused by what I was saying in that specific context.

I'm done.
 
I have never been to any store that sold ammo that DIDN'T have 9mm. It is certainly on the shelf at my tiny little Wal-Mart.

But you just make joke, right, comrade? Talk at you later. :D

Walmart has stopped selling pistol ammunition at all locations. If it's still at yours, it soon won't be. You haven't heard about this?
 
I have zero concerns 7mm-08 ammunition will be difficult to purchase at retail level in the USA when my great nephews and great nieces are in their 30's even though that hasn't been a non-wildcat round for 50 or more years.

7X64mm Brenneke? I think that'll still be available through imported ammo from RUAG through Norma, RWS, and maybe Geco at minimum and from boutique ammo companies. I don't give high odds Remington will continue to offer 7X64mm Brenneke factory ammo for even 10 more years and their 140 grain load is the only 7X64mm Breenneke ammo manufactured by a major US ammo company. And it predates official 7mm-08 by 63 years.

I think it'll be on a cartridge by cartridge basis. The .243 Winchester is another I think will stick around for a long time. However I think .338 Federal won't stay around long enough as a factory option long enough to see the day .243 Winchester is no longer a factory option.
 
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