Accuracy with a .38 snub-nose

AK103K.......Jack Wilson only shot once....Find his in depth interview with the young tv lady,,,,,very interesting, very informative.

Mavracer. I think if you watch his in depth interview with the tv lady, you will find he knew what he was doing, and why he had to hesitate......I’m calling ‘skill’, not luck.

Jack Ruby also only shot once.

OneFreeTexan said:

AK103K.......Jack Wilson only shot once....Find his in depth interview with the young tv lady,,,,,very interesting, very informative.

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My point was, who trains to only shoot once?

I have already told this story I a other post so bear with me:

AK103K said:

My point was, who trains to only shoot once?

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I would say if you had potential collateral damage right/left and behind had to wait for a clearing to fire and had to hit the T-Box at 15 yards (I've seen 40 and 45') you likely should not be spraying shots with a minimal front sight only flash sight picture. It took him approximately 3 seconds to draw and another 3 seconds to fire however I don't know if the initial slow drawing was because he was mentally trying to figure out a safe avenue of fire or not. Once he drew the weapon it took approximately 3 seconds to fire which seems reasonable considering the obstacles (ie live bodies) and difficulty of the shot and the possible ramifications of missing. I have managed it in around 2.0 seconds (draw and shoot) with a very permissive 3x5 target zone target. For a T-Box Shot I doubt I could do it in less than 3.0 seconds and during a real event I would bet it would be over 4.0 seconds with reaction time. Add in the people between you and the target and 6.0 seconds doesn't sound egregious.

Back to the FIL with the .38 Snub.
He is likely representative of real people who defend themselves everyday.

Forgive me if you have read this in another post.

CCW Qualifying Course
B29 Reduced Size Silhouette
20 rounds 3 yards
20 rounds 5 yards
10 rounds 7 yards
70% Ring 7 or better

Guy in my Lil' Sister's class could only score around 50% with a J-Frame Snubbie with 3 attempts. He scored 74% with a .22 RF on his 4th Attempt. Before the class he had fired approximately 40 Rounds including 5 to the chest of an irate ex-employee who was attempting to remove his head with an axe.

I suspect his skill level is more typical of the average defender than many may believe.

I also suspect the five to the chest happened fast enough we will never know if two would have been sufficient.

My little sister only had around 50 rounds prior to the test and scored 100% with a .380EZ so it wasn't that difficult a test.

Can I assume the rounds you witnessed your FIL fire were something like the 130 FMJ (Military Load)? If so I don't think he will find much softer shooting range ammo. Maybe work with a .22 RF until he masters the basics before throwing the recoil of a .38 Snubbie into the mix.

Sorry, I got off track,,,,,Kudos to Jack Wilson, however back to 38 snubbies, I have carried one for over 30 yrs, never had to draw it,,,,I practice min of 100 shots per week, it’s fun, but only accurate to a max of ten yards....
Fortunately I go to a chapel that is very small,,,,, no more that 5 yards.

OK I had to google to find out who Jack Wilson is. I know who he is I just forgot his name. And this shooting happened about 20 miles from me. But when looking I found this from michael bloomberg,

“I wasn’t there,” Bloomberg told his audience. “I don’t know the facts—that somebody in the congregation had their own gun and killed the person who murdered two other people. But it’s the job of law enforcement to have guns and to decide when to shoot. You just do not want the average citizen carrying a gun in a crowded place.”

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"I wasn't there, I don't know the facts". Tells me all I need to know about this guy. No information but willing to throw gun owners under the bus. No praise for the shooter, just advice to wait on the police to show up.

I hope the OPs FIL gets some low recoil ammo and some help from an experienced shooter to help him raise his skill level with his revolver. I have several semi-autos and am on the hunt for another one but still feel well armed with a good old reliable wheel gun. Nearly all light weight bullet loads are easy to shoot. Even if they are full power loads. Maybe look at some 110gr loads for practice. Those are what I used to carry in my first snubby. A Taurus model 85 I regret ever selling. But I may have a new one on the way.

First, j frame snubbies can be very accurate but it does take practice. Shooting a 6" group at 15 yards should be easy with practice. It's also not the right gun to learn to shoot with. I would suggest a K frame with wadcutters to start. OP- buy one or better yet, rent one at a range and see how your FIL shoots.

Jbird45 said:

My father in law has a Smith and Wesson .38 special +p revolver and he has not been happy with his accuracy. It is his carry weapon and at ten yards he can get most shots somewhere on the black but there is always a few that aren't. That makes us nervous because if he ever did have to use it in a defense situation you don't want projectiles not on target.

He uses Winchester 130 grain FMJ for target shooting and I would say it holds a 10-12" group at 10 yards with a few fliers that are off target or not even on paper. I studied his trigger pull and also loaded a cylinder with rounds and empty Chambers to see if he flinches and his technique and form are good.

I know these are not made to be tackdrivers, but what is reasonable accuracy one should expect at that distance? Is there a different ammo or weight of bullet we should try for the length barrel? I would say the barrel is 1.5 to 2". Maybe we should be training at a shorter distance?

Thanks for the help!

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Take a sheet of typing paper and place it on your chest. Note what area it covers (all the vital organs). If you can get 10 consecutive shots anywhere into that paper at 10 yards...you're pretty much going to stop a threat.

Kleanbore said:

????

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I meant that his FIL was likely typical.
It takes a good bit of effort and practice to shoot well for most people. The majority of people who defend themselves are average not Rob Leatham. Many have fired at best a box or two of ammo in the last year.

I shoot my 642 at an 8" plate at no less than 25 yards. I usually get 3-4 hits in a row, occasionally all 5. Sometimes I miss two cylinders in a row. You really have to focus to make that gun work for you. It took me over 6,000 rounds with 642s to get me to where I am but its a fun plinking gun if you put the time in. Falling plate racks with a snub at 10 yards is pure fun.

Kleanbore said:

Has his FIL actually defended himself?

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You are reading more into my statement than I intended. In retrospect I'm guilty of the same (in reading into the OP a context that only experts are allowed the right to defend themselves). If it's a problem simply delete my post.

Not to get off topic. I know there are studies of rounds fired during a defensive shooting. I wish there was a study of the rounds per year that the average person who fires their gun in defense shoots. I would agree probably less than a box

Practice, practice and more practice. Back in The Day... I worked for a federal agency that required a, ".38 Special, 5-round minimum, U.S. made, revolver"... That being said, I carried either a 2.5" S&W Model 66, or a 2" S&W Model 60. We were issued, "Not For Retail Sale" Winchester .38 Special, 110 grain hollow points, +P+ rounds for duty carry. Our qualification course went from 7 yards out to 25, with the usual loading drills, barricade drills, etc. I'm here to tell you that with practice, you can keep all your rounds in center mass at 25 yards. I still have both of those weapons (yes, weapons) and I would trust either of them with my life.... although I generally carry a Sig P365 now. Sorry, revolver guys. It's possible to be very accurate with a short-barreled revolver, with a lot of practice. Always double-action practice, I might add. No single action.

Edit: … and we did our reloads from a belt pouch holding 6 rounds in a line. We loaded 2 rounds at a time. You can also do that pretty quick, surprisingly. I think all of the above kind of dates me...