Safety and no shooting areas

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CapnMac said:
It's that, or take the loss and quit the property.
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Or contact the rental property owner and offer to buy the property.

Perhaps neighbors, if they are so motivated, could go in on the purchase, especially adjoining property owners to add the renter's property to their land to ensure no more renters shooting in the future. ;)

Never know, perhaps children of neighbors maybe interested in buying the property. That's what property owners are doing on our private road with 8 acreages, any property that comes up for sale, we (existing property owners) buy the properties for our children.
 
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Read the laws on criminal negligence. If they are applicable to your situation then send that along to landlord and tenants as well. The issue that the neighbors may be having is that they are not being put in danger whereas OP claims that he is. There is a huge difference between annoyance by noise and of being endangered by projectile.

I just this week sent notice to the local basketball league which refused to effectively officiate games that since they refuse to correct the situation that the next injury not only would be grounds for a civil suit to collect for doctors visits, but would also be reported as criminal negligence which is a pretty serious misdemeanor. Today we had new referees.
 
I agree with the others. The first thing you need to do is talk to the renters. The next time they are shooting while you are mowing politely ask them to stop. Tell them you feel unsafe being downrange of their shooting range. Tell them that you are sure they are excellent shots and that backstop looks great but accidents still happen. It doesn't matter that the neighbors on either side have asked them not to shoot. They aren't down range - you are. You have a legitimate safety concern while the other neighbors only have a noise concern. If they tell you to pound sand move to step 2.

Step 2 is a letter from your lawyer to the owner of the property formally notifying him that his renters have built a shooting range on his property. Inform him that they continue to shoot while you are directly down range on your property and that you also have buildings down range. Inform him that you have asked his renters to not shoot while you are on your property but they refuse. Then tell you are going to bring a lawsuit against him unless he controls the renters on his property.

The fact that this is a rental and the owner just wants to get paid is a factor in your favor. You are right, he likely just wants to get paid. He isn't personally invested is his renters being able to shoot on his property. He surely doesn't want to pay lawyers to defend against a lawsuit so his renters can shoot on his property. So make some noise and let him know that you aren't going away until he resolves this issue.
 
Yep, every time someone complains about unsafe shooters he is attacked. i have an extensive background in firing range safety, have designed small arms firing ranges and have testified in court as an expert witness. This stuff is serious. Every bullet that leaves the property has the shooters name on it.

This stuff happens all too often:

https://fox59.com/2017/03/14/neighbors-battling-with-gun-range-over-bullets-hitting-homes/

The renters most likely have nothing: The wealthy property owner don't want a civil lawsuit. Get together with your neighbors and hire a lawyer. Have the lawyer send a letter to the property owner.
 
Unfortunately, alsaqr is right, you will have to retain a lawyer and threaten to sue the owner. Talking to the renters is futile and only the owner can either make them stop or evict them. A good lawyer might cost a couple of hundred or so but safety is worth it.
 
There's absolutely no substitute for actually reading the law:


"IC 14-22-31.5-5


Local government regulation

Sec. 5. Except as specifically prohibited by this chapter and

subject to IC 35-47-11.1, a local unit of government may regulate the

location, use, operation, safety, and construction of a shooting range.

As added by P.L.134-1996, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.152-2011,

SEC.1.

IC 14-22-31.5-6

Liability relating to noise

Sec. 6. A person who owns, operates, or uses a shooting range is

not liable in any civil or criminal matter relating to noise or noise

pollution that results from the operation or use of the shooting range

if the construction and operation of the shooting range were legal at

the time of its initial construction or initial operation, and the

shooting range continues to operate in a manner that would have been

legal at the time of the inception or initial operation.

As added by P.L.134-1996, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.289-2013,

SEC.16."




https://statecodesfiles.justia.com/indiana/2015/title-14/article-22/chapter-31.5/chapter-31.5.pdf
 
alsaqr said:
There's absolutely no substitute for actually reading the law:


"IC 14-22-31.5-5


Local government regulation

Sec. 5. Except as specifically prohibited by this chapter and

subject to IC 35-47-11.1, a local unit of government may regulate the

location, use, operation, safety, and construction of a shooting range.

As added by P.L.134-1996, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.152-2011,

SEC.1.

IC 14-22-31.5-6

Liability relating to noise

Sec. 6. A person who owns, operates, or uses a shooting range is

not liable in any civil or criminal matter relating to noise or noise

pollution that results from the operation or use of the shooting range

if the construction and operation of the shooting range were legal at

the time of its initial construction or initial operation, and the

shooting range continues to operate in a manner that would have been

legal at the time of the inception or initial operation.

As added by P.L.134-1996, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.289-2013,

SEC.16."




https://statecodesfiles.justia.com/indiana/2015/title-14/article-22/chapter-31.5/chapter-31.5.pdf
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Problem is, we aren’t talking about a “shooting range”. What is being discussed is someone who has constructed a makeshift backstop out of logs in a rural residential area. If they always hit the backstop fine, but if they miss for any reason there are buildings, and on occasion, me, less than 75 yards (being conservative here, probably 50 yards tops) downrange.
Got some work I have to get done. Back later with final comments.
 
MedWheeler said:
George P writes:



Here are quotes from the actual state statutes involved. There is no "ten acres requirement." Because Florida is still a "preemption state", local ordinances with tighter restrictions are not lawful.
...
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"any person who knowingly discharges a firearm in any public place or on the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street, who knowingly discharges any firearm over the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street or over any occupied premises, or who recklessly or negligently discharges a firearm outdoors on any property used primarily as the site of a dwelling as defined in s. 776.013 or zoned exclusively for residential use commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.."


That seems to cover it. Speak to some higher ups in the PD. Also plain logic seems to cover it if they are just shooting in the direction of occupied dwellings and places of businesses with just a wooden fence to stop the bullets.
 
F1 said:
"any person who knowingly discharges a firearm in any public place or on the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street, who knowingly discharges any firearm over the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street or over any occupied premises, or who recklessly or negligently discharges a firearm outdoors on any property used primarily as the site of a dwelling as defined in s. 776.013 or zoned exclusively for residential use commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.."


That seems to cover it. Speak to some higher ups in the PD. Also plain logic seems to cover it if they are just shooting in the direction of occupied dwellings and places of businesses with just a wooden fence to stop the bullets.
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Florida law. We are talking Indiana
 
E7A9A137-B2F3-47A7-92EF-7CD0ACCF925B.jpeg Just a quick post and then back to work. These two pictures are from the south window of my shop in Springersville. One zooms in on the “backstop”, and the other shows the general area.
 

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FWIW search did not uncover a state law; did have several links to discussions on the issue. Here's one:
https://www.ingunowners.com/forums/general-firearms-discussion/343151-backyard-shooting.html

Based on your picture, I personally would be seeing an attorney tomorrow morning. That "backstop" is entirely insufficient IMHO. Bullets have a way of finding a way through "piled up logs". I suspect if landlord is presented with pictures and the facts, he would see to it that a cease fire is enacted.

Regards,
hps
 
Flintshooter said:
View attachment 887376 Just a quick post and then back to work. These two pictures are from the south window of my shop in Springersville. One zooms in on the “backstop”, and the other shows the general area.
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That's not a "backstop" that's a pile of semi-random debris.
Not even "logs" that's just unburnt firewood. Probably not even stopping 7.62x39 in any measurable way,

Sadly, I've seen too many of those out in the country side with utterly uncaring goons on the front side. And all is hunky-dory until something valuable gets hit. Just too many knuckle-dragging crayon eaters out there with no clue.

Now, I admit I'm biased. I tend to think of a minimal backstop as being at least 12' tall, at least 12' wide and having a 20-25' wide base of earth piled up. Also, I tend to think of "log" as being a hardwood baulk about at least 24" around and at least 16' feet long.
 
CapnMac said:
That's not a "backstop" that's a pile of semi-random debris.
Not even "logs" that's just unburnt firewood. Probably not even stopping 7.62x39 in any measurable way,

Sadly, I've seen too many of those out in the country side with utterly uncaring goons on the front side. And all is hunky-dory until something valuable gets hit. Just too many knuckle-dragging crayon eaters out there with no clue.

Now, I admit I'm biased. I tend to think of a minimal backstop as being at least 12' tall, at least 12' wide and having a 20-25' wide base of earth piled up. Also, I tend to think of "log" as being a hardwood baulk about at least 24" around and at least 16' feet long.
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Gosh, and I got jumped on right off the bat for calling them clowns.
In front of, or back of, depending on where you stand, the brush pile is a double stack of logs held in place with metal fence posts. Not enough as far as I’m concerned but I think some of you are starting to see that I’m not some rabid anti-gunner trying to shut down legitimate, and safe shooting ranges.
 
Laws will vary from state to state; here's the law in TX.

Texas Parks and Wildlife Code § 62.0121. Discharge of Firearm Across Property Line
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(a) In this section, “firearm” has the meaning assigned by Section 62.014(a) .

(b) A person commits an offense if:

(1) the person, while hunting or engaging in recreational shooting, knowingly discharges a firearm;  and

(2) the projectile from the firearm travels across a property line.

(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the person:

(1) owns the property on both sides of each property line crossed by the projectile;  or

(2) has a written agreement with any person who owns property on either side of each property line crossed by the projectile that allows the person to discharge a firearm on, over, or across the property or property line.

(d) The written agreement required under Subsection (c)(2) must:

(1) contain the name of the person allowed to hunt or engage in recreational shooting in a manner described by Subsection (b);

(2) identify the property on either side of the property line crossed by the projectile;  and

(3) be signed by any person who owns the property on either side of the line crossed by the projectile.

(e) An offense under this section is a Class C Parks and Wildlife Code misdemeanor.

(f) If conduct constituting an offense under this section constitutes an offense under a section of the Penal Code, the person may be prosecuted under either section or both sections.

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Read this complete Texas Parks and Wildlife Code § 62.0121. Discharge of Firearm Across Property Line on Westlaw

FindLaw Codes are provided courtesy of Thomson Reuters Westlaw, the industry-leading online legal research system. For more detailed codes research information, including annotations and citations, please visit Westlaw.

FindLaw Codes may not reflect the most recent version of the law in your jurisdiction. Please verify the status of the code you are researching with the state legislature or via Westlaw before relying on it for your legal needs.
Click to expand...

Searched "Bullets crossing property line in Indiana" turned this up:

https://www.taborlawfirm.com/blog/2017/march/bullets-failing-to-stay-inside-precision-gun-ran/
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While this seems to be a public range, I would think it would apply to ANY range???

Regards,
hps
 
Gosh, and I got jumped on right off the bat for calling them clowns.
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I didn’t intend for my statement to be taken as “jumping on you”, calling people names, that you would like to see things your way, is less than helpful, that’s all.

When I lived in the city I had a neighbor come over one night and asked if I could please keep the noise down, we moved everything inside. On another occasion some neighbor called the police making a noise complaint, during the day, the police walked up, after we were already finished what we were doing making the noise with anyway and asked all about the engine we had been running then asked if they could hear it run. So I fired it up for them and figured out what neighbor had called when they looked out to see why the noise commenced again and to see the police they had called being the audience. If everything is legal, you don’t have legal recourse, you have to approach things from a different angle.

Kind of like you saying “it’s not a shooting range”, how is that defined in Indiana? It certainly doesn’t look safe and obviously a liability for the property owner, when damage does occur but if you are going to bring a case, you should know the laws and definitions or you could be just throwing money away hiring a lawyer or compounding your problem.
 
Flintshooter said:
To start with, I would like you or anyone else who is interested to get on Google Earth and look up Springersville, IN. The part being discussed is the northeast corner with the Springersville, Road on the south and CR 450E on the west. My shop is the larger building out by itself with a red roof near a smaller building with the same color roof (utility shed) slightly to the south and east of the shop. The rental house, partially obscured by trees, is the third house east of the intersection on the north side of Springersville Road.
This isn’t about noise.
They are shooting from a point less than fifty feet from the road at a backstop about twenty feet from the property line. If they were the neighbor to the north, well over 100 yards away, and shooting east where a missed backstop wouldn’t be any big thing because there are no houses for miles let alone close by and in sight.
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Holy Batflaps. The only person with ANY business shooting anything other than a shotgun in that corner is you, and only if your shooting towards the northeast. There’s a farm shop that direction roughly a mile out so even then I would not want to shoot rifles. Pistols should be fine provided you aren’t shooting into the air, but pistols are kinda shady too.
 
The people who shoot there are idiots. So is the law enforcement officers who allowed them to continue to shoot there. Take that picture to your county commissioner. Send a copy to the landowner too.
 
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