Legality of self defense using a homemade 80% weapon

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What's to not understand? You're comparing an 80% firearm to handloaded or reloaded ammo, and trying to get there by analogy. From an evidentiary standpoint (which is the problem with handloaded ammo), they're entirely different.

Are you related to Massad Ayoob??

That's a joke. You stated I don't understand handloads, I said you didn't understand my post.

Never mind.
 
A subtle "gotcha" in WA state would be proving that the specific 80% receiver in question was delivered before the cutoff date. Unless it was supplied "pre-serialized" that could be a tough challenge.
 
...Have the mods on this forum taken an official stance against 80% items?

I can't speak for the other moderators, but I can't imagine that any of us have any special dislike of 80% items as such. They do present certain legal complications, especially in some States. Also, I personally would have no use for one because I prefer to have a gun that's been built by someone with all the tools and skills to do a really good job of it -- and that wouldn't be me.

In the context of the OP's question, my view as a lawyer (not as a moderator) is that choosing to use a gun you built from an 80% frame as your "go to" self defense gun isn't the best idea. If you use force to defend yourself or a loved one, you will need to tell your story. What you will want to focus on is your reasonable fear of imminent death and that you had no choice.

Why give the prosecution an opportunity to blather about "ghost guns" or "people who make their own 'untraceable' guns" or people afraid of "being in the radar". Okay, all of that might be balderdash, but it can resonate with some jurors and would need to be answered.

Answering any such extraneous blather will distract from your simple, and elegant, "I knew that if I didn't shoot him I would die" story. There will always be extraneous blather to answer, but it's preferable to minimize it when possible. If you don't use a homemade gun you won't have to deal with the issue.
 
Let me ask a question that will clarify my opinion ( & my free advice is worth every penny you pay for it).

Given that one will take every measure with their firearm to protect life and well being (like the handgun’s sights, grip, reliably, trigger system; like training and practice; like effective ammunition), WHY WOULDN’T ONE MAKE DECISIONS TO BEST PROTECT LIFE AND WELLBEING THROUGH THE JUDICIAL PROCESS? Like a standard, non-modified firearm with factory ammunition of a type that LE uses, etc.

If you’ve never been deposed or questioned on the stand in a courtroom (me, as a material witness) then you don’t realize just how little control you have in the judicial process. Take and make EVERY advantage for yourself!
 
I, and the other members here understand the legal system to some basic level.
I never claimed otherwise. That said, I stand by what I said: "a good shoot is a good shoot" is a gross oversimplification of what really happens after a deadly force encounter, an attempt to reduce a fairly complicated (and sometimes seemingly arcane) process to a catchphrase. And it overlooks a lot of the process (determining whether it was ever a good shoot in the first place) in doing so.
Have the mods on this forum taken an official stance against 80% items?
Not to my knowledge. I certainly haven't. That said, I do think they run some risk of introducing unnecessary variables into already complex and uncertain situation. In the legal system, variables cause problems. One of the things they tell you in law school is "Never ask a question at trial unless you already know the answer." If you don't know the answer to a question, it's a variable. (And sometimes, clients turn them into variables right then and there, but that's a story for another day.) In many ways concealed carriers already work very hard at eliminating variables:
1. Carry the same pistol every day;
2. Carry at the same position every day;
3. Always carry when legal;
4. Train, train, train.
These are all steps that are taken to eliminate one or more variables. For lack of a better phrase, those are "physical action" variables. Do you have to swipe off a safety? Do you draw from 4 o'clock or from cross-draw?

On the legal side, I've tried to eliminate as many variables as possible. A prosecutor will find no Punisher grips on my carry gun, no death's head back plate, no catchy slogans engraved on the slide. Nothing that he can blow up to poster size to display to the jury. I've chosen a reliable factory round, and I can explain why I chose it. It's not called the Mankiller 3000. I want the prosecutor to be forced to focus on the conflict and the conflict alone. I don't want him getting any kind of traction on anything else.
 
Considering they are illegal to import in WA state from a recent law, I would not want to play that dice. Start getting into defending a firearm that might be covered by a grandfather clause and you are just piling on problems.
 
I (Mod) have no personal, or official position. I have friends who are into the 80% thing. I do understand the appearance risk at trial. When I've given depositions, I have been coached by the lawyers on how to appear.
 
I'd like to read Washington's pistol licensing law, if any of you have a citation.
Washington State's registration law:

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.110 (Emphasis added)

(9)(a) A true record in triplicate shall be made of every pistol or semiautomatic assault rifle sold, in a book kept for the purpose, the form of which may be prescribed by the director of licensing and shall be personally signed by the purchaser and by the person effecting the sale, each in the presence of the other, and shall contain the date of sale, the caliber, make, model and manufacturer's number of the weapon, the name, address, occupation, and place of birth of the purchaser, and a statement signed by the purchaser that he or she is not ineligible under state or federal law to possess a firearm.

(b) One copy shall within six hours be sent by certified mail to the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county of which the purchaser is a resident, or the state pursuant to RCW 9.41.090; the duplicate the dealer shall within seven days send to the director of licensing; the triplicate the dealer shall retain for six years.​
 
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I can't speak for the other moderators, but I can't imagine that any of us have any special dislike of 80% items as such. They do present certain legal complications, especially in some States. Also, I personally would have no use for one because I prefer to have a gun that's been built by someone with all the tools and skills to do a really good job of it -- and that wouldn't be me.
I would also add that it can present those complications more in certain circumstances than in others. I'd never really thought about it until I read @Spats McGee's writeup on using hand rolled ammo in a self defense situation. In my factory built SD weapons are over the counter factory cartridges. Call me paranoid, but I don't want to give any potential fallout from a self defense usage of said weapons any cause to get more prickly of a situation than it absolutely needs be.

Why give the prosecution an opportunity to blather about "ghost guns" or "people who make their own 'untraceable' guns" or people afraid of "being in the radar". Okay, all of that might be balderdash, but it can resonate with some jurors and would need to be answered.

Answering any such extraneous blather will distract from your simple, and elegant, "I knew that if I didn't shoot him I would die" story. There will always be extraneous blather to answer, but it's preferable to minimize it when possible. If you don't use a homemade gun you won't have to deal with the issue.

Nothing muddies up the water like blather. In a SD situation I'd imagine that (and this is why I use factory ammo in a factory weapon for SD), if not the DA's office, at least the attorneys for the bereaved family of the little angel I shot kicking in my door who are suiing for taking out there little snookums.
 
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