FFL won't ship or refund.

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ATF considers this type of situation a civil matter and outside of their jurisdiction.
The minute the seller got snotty is the time you should have contacted your bank about a chargeback.
Do that now.
 
Cody Kendall said:
..... When it came time to ship I gave him my FFL dealer's info. He told me I had to have my FFL dealer contact him. I told him he had his info and could contact him because he'd have to give him his FFL info.
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As he should have.
The seller has no responsibility to track down your dealer.....its YOUR responsibility to have YOUR dealer send the seller his FFL.


My dealer never got this guy's FFL info or anything.
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Your dealer isn't required to have a copy of the sellers FFL.
 
I've purchased very few guns online. In every case I had to contact my FFL and have them email (or in one case Fax) their info to the seller.
 
I also have had to contact my local FFL and have them fax or email their information to the seller. OP, it sounds like you skipped this step. Sure, the seller owes you a refund but it's probably your fault he never shipped the item.
 
There are two aspects of this:

1. First, it's a civil matter. File in small claims court or take it up with your bank. Sometimes a complaint with the Better Business Bureau can get results.

2. Theft is also a crime. Contact the local prosecutor.
 
I had a dealer ship an expensive double to me once. Paid with a card. I immediately shipped it back unfired. It had some serious issues. LSS, he wouldn't refund me. This went on for 2 months over the phone. I alerted my bank for a fraud and got a complaint form ready to mail to his state AG. One last call. Gave him a drop dead date and told him if I didn't get a refund by then his bank and the AG were going to look into it. Also told him he could keep the 2K because he was going to need it for an attorney. The money magically appeared in my account on the drop dead date. Funny how all that works.:D
 
dogtown tom said:
It's not theft

Which means nothing. Seller is prohibited by federal law from shipping the firearm until he has a copy of the receiving dealers FFL.
Maybe we should have a thread about sending FFL's.:rofl:
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Since we ship guns I'm aware of those regs. However, the theft part comes in when he won't give the money back either. He's got the money and the gun. He has a legal obligation to send one or the other to the OP.
 
1KPerDay said:
Sooo..... what exactly are you asking here, then?

All this is because you didn't want to ask your FFL to contact him? Just want to make sure we're understanding the issue.
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I'm asking if anyone can give me advice on what to do next. I've gotten some good tidbits from a few people on here, so I appreciate that.
 
beeenbag said:
Have your FFL send his info to the seller. Make sure you have a copy of the seller's written shipping policy. If he ignores your FFL, then you have a legit complaint
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That's exactly what I would do. Like I said, in every case I've had to get my guy to send his info. And it was always stated in the agreement/FAQ/how to buy etc section somewhere
 
If you just want your money back, Dispute the charge! It doesn't matter that it's a debit card. Most likely the charge was processed as a credit card charge (since no PIN was given presumably). If you have documentation of the communication I can almost guarantee you will win. Even if it was processed as a debit card charge there are plenty of protections available and it should be disputed and you will probably get your money back. If you want your money back disputing the charge is going to be the quickest and easiest way possible. There is a 60 day window from when you receive a statement to dispute the charge so sooner is better than waiting. The process is relatively easy and should be able to be done online, at the bank, or over the phone (phone # would be on the back of the card).

I have disputed a variety of charges - airline ticket, car rental, Washington DC subway ticket purchase and a variety of other. Those listed are the ones I wasn't sure I'd win and so far I've got the money back on every one even when using a debit card.
 
If part of the contract was that the buyer have their FFL contact the seller within xxx days of purchase (which every one I've personally seen did in fact have) then I'm not sure the OP would win in court or with a dispute. But I'm no lawyer.

I'd have the FFL send their info and see if the seller would ship. If not then nothing was hurt by trying
 
Just request a refund if you don't want to follow thru with the transaction. You have that right. You haven't received anything from that dealer yet you have paid for it. Doesn't matter how you guys got sideways. He can't keep your money if you want a refund. Nobody cares what the rules are about receiving FFL's personally contacting a seller so they can ship. All that needs to be said is I want a refund. Regardless of ATF rules, if a dealer won't refund you then he shouldn't be in business and won't be for very long if he conducts his business in that manor.

Send him notice using return receipt mail that you want a refund. Be specific as to method and last day that would be acceptable. Don't threaten him in any way. Let him figure out what he needs to do to avoid litigation or possible investigation by his bank. If he has an IQ above 100 he'll figure it out.;)
 
My guy sent his info. The other guy won't acknowledge it. That's what I've been trying to say. He has all the info to send the rifle. He's simply choosing not to ship it or refund me.
 
reddog81 said:
If you just want your money back, Dispute the charge! It doesn't matter that it's a debit card. Most likely the charge was processed as a credit card charge (since no PIN was given presumably). If you have documentation of the communication I can almost guarantee you will win. Even if it was processed as a debit card charge there are plenty of protections available and it should be disputed and you will probably get your money back. If you want your money back disputing the charge is going to be the quickest and easiest way possible. There is a 60 day window from when you receive a statement to dispute the charge so sooner is better than waiting. The process is relatively easy and should be able to be done online, at the bank, or over the phone (phone # would be on the back of the card).

I have disputed a variety of charges - airline ticket, car rental, Washington DC subway ticket purchase and a variety of other. Those listed are the ones I wasn't sure I'd win and so far I've got the money back on every one even when using a debit card.
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Thank you so much! I'll start with this and then contact the Georgia attorney general.
 
.455_Hunter said:
If your local dealer has sent their FFL to the seller and no delivery action is forthcoming, then I would contact the seller's local LEO agency and/or DA for discussions about theft.

This doesn't happen to concern a certain model of .500 S&W revolver does it? Just asking based on previous recent threads...
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No sir, it's for a .458 SOCOM
 
CoalTrain49 said:
Just request a refund if you don't want to follow thru with the transaction. You have that right. You haven't received anything from that dealer yet you have paid for it. Doesn't matter how you guys got sideways. He can't keep your money if you want a refund. Nobody cares what the rules are about receiving FFL's personally contacting a seller so they can ship. All that needs to be said is I want a refund. Regardless of ATF rules, if a dealer won't refund you then he shouldn't be in business and won't be for very long if he conducts his business in that manor.

Send him notice using return receipt mail that you want a refund. Be specific as to method and last day that would be acceptable. Don't threaten him in any way. Let him figure out what he needs to do to avoid litigation or possible investigation by his bank. If he has an IQ above 100 he'll figure it out.;)
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This was also very helpful. Thank you so much!
 
Cody Kendall said:
My guy sent his info. The other guy won't acknowledge it. That's what I've been trying to say. He has all the info to send the rifle. He's simply choosing not to ship it or refund me.
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Did he send his CONTACT INFO or did he send a COPY OF HIS FFL?

If the former, ask your FFL to send the seller a COPY OF HIS FFL. If the seller refuses to ship, then you have a case.
 
Cody Kendall said:
When it came time to ship I gave him my FFL dealer's info.
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Cody Kendall said:
My guy sent his info. The other guy won't acknowledge it. That's what I've been trying to say.
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These two statements are drastically different. Be sure that your FFL was the one to send his info, be sure that the info made it to the seller, correct spelling on email, etc. Once you confirm the info was sent from your FFL, then contact the seller again and inform him of such. Make sure you are aware of his pre-stated shipping policy, and make sure you are compliant to it, if you aren't, this will not play in your favor. The reaction afterwards to this action will determine what kind of action you may need to pursue.
 
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