Brownell's retro upper problems - anyone else with Brownell retro ARs?

I took the plunge into a retro early M16 clone build, and bought a XBRN16E1 upper from Brownells (M16E1 clone, with the three prong supressor and chrome bolt).

I was absolutely shocked at what I received.

• Forward assist was broken - tear drop broken off. No fragments in the shipping container, so whatever happened, happened before it shipped.
• wear marks in the pivot pin holes in the upper - looks very much like it had been used
• very cheap looking handguards. Thin and flexible,and the teeth were as far as 3-4 mm apart towards the center the guard (in other words, they bowed out.

I can't tell you how dissappointed I was after giving this a thorough going-over. Not at all what I would have expected for $730. Not by a long shot.

Almost zero support from Brownells, aside from just returning the item. Actually was funny, as their customer agent made it sound magnanimous that they would take it back? Of course they should! I called them within minutes of receiving a defective item in the mail ! I talked to a Brownell's gun tech, who simply said, yeah I seen a lot of those tear drop assists break, that what the break looks like. Uh ... ???? He clammed up though when I questioned whether I got somebody else's used return.

Is it worth attempting an exchange for a the same item from Brownells? Or should I just do the return and go a different direction for a retro upper?

Offer to fix? Offer to replace? Maybe offer some explation how a damaged and/or used part gets shipped out? I guess the days of resposbility and accountability are long gone ...

Yes, the teardrop assist was an issue, which is why they went to the dot button (no snags, and no breaks). Tear drops are prone to cracking at the plunger around the internal roll pin attaching if actually used hard and a lot. Not the tab, but at the plunger. And, again, when USED and/or abused.

But here is a part straight from the factory that came broken. Substandard materials? No QC checks?

But, do you really think that the Army got delivered rifles with broken teardrop assists straight from the factory. Nope, no reporting of that. I would not raise an eyebrow if the tab broke off after a couple of years of abuse ... or even months of abuse. But straight out of the box? That's not the design weakness. That's something else - like cheap cast aluminum parts, or a lack of QC somewhere within Brownells along the line.

BSA1 said:

“Almost zero support from Brownells, aside from just returning the item.”

What else do you want Brownells to do?

As for the Teardrop Forward Assist I wonder if them breaking was the reason the Army changed the design? That could be a design weakness. The “fun” retro guns is you get the warts and all.

Click to expand...

While my customer service experience was highly unsatisfactory, my question really is about impressions of the quality of their retro uppers. What really shook me was the apparent low quality of the cast aluminum assist. I was wondering if I was accidentally sent something out of the reject bin.

Do others with this upper have more encouraging things to teport? Is it worth the effort to push Brownells for an exchange of an QC inspected item?

Or should I just do the return and go a different direction for a retro upper?

I'll be blunt, my assessment of their XM16E1 upper based on this single instance is that it's junk. But I can't find any. Similar reports of quality control issues, aside from some cosmetic griping about their handguards. I actually don't care about the handguards, because I'm going to replace the furniture anyway. Poor quality cast aluminum parts are my bigger concern at this point.

Thanks - I hear what you're saying about any number of possible foul-ups along the way. I can understand that. I was more worried about the quality of the components they are using.

just finished talking with support again just as you posted this. The options given by Brownells are as follows
- return the item for refund (refund given in 7-14 days after receipt of item).
- return the item and repurchase it at what is now a substantially higher price.

They will not exchange. They also will not honor the original purchase price (from last week) for a repurchase. Still processing that reply from Brownells, from what I thought was a reputable company.

I guess I'll just have to move on, return this, and look at building one myself.

LoonWulf said:

I would suggest you return it to them, and request a refund if your unhappy with their response, and or the product. You have a perfect right to vote with your money and buy something else instead.

As to WHY you got a bad/damaged product, there are all kinds of things that could have happend.
Someone just missing a point on a check list, while boxing would be my guess for most likely.
Id guess that these are all built/assembled off site, and its unlikely anyone at brownells opens the boxes before shipping, or if they do it would only be a cursory inspection. Either way a this is a bit of a niche product and the damaged forward assist may have look "right" at a glance to someone whos been building round push buttons all day, and may have never SEEN a teardrop (i havent) in real life.
Its also possible someone put a return box in the wrong place.
Ive worked in shipping/receiving, and on the floor, and have seen these things happen, along with a number of other things that could result in something like this.

Every Brownells product Ive purchased has been worth what Ive paid for it, and ive returned double orders with no issues. Ive never owned, or even SEEN one of their retro ars/uppers tho, so cant speak to those in particular.

Anyway, thank you for sharing your experience, hopefully you will get what you want in the end.

Click to expand...

drband said:

Did they say WHY they would not do a direct exchange?

Click to expand...

They cited company policy (cited by each of a customer service rep, a customer support rep, a gun tech rep, and finally a supervisor). Each pointed me back to the web page. Returns only, no provision for exchanges in their policy. I guess that's my bad for not being aware they do not exchange damaged goods.

drband said:

Did you ask to be switched to a supervisor?

Sounds different from my past experiences with Brownells. Almost sounds like they have outsourced their CS.

Click to expand...

Yep, I did speak with a supervisor. It took several attempts over several days to get in touch with one by phone (and even then, it took a day for one to return a call).

Brownells never replied to the emails I sent with images of the broken part and condition. It took several phone calls just to get up to a supervisor's level

Again, they seem to be adhering to a narrow return policy. It is kind of mind boggling that you can't exchange a defective good - you just have to return it, and then buy it again at whatever the current price is, even if it is (much) higher. They were not very receptive to my complaint that I'm not open to floating $1400 on my credit card, waiting for a return on the defective upper while purchasing a new and hopefully non-damaged upper.

Craziness.

Please read my first post more carefully. I said I bought an XBRN16A1 upper for $730. Only the upper (part # 078-000-471WB). Not the entire rifle.

BSA1 said:

On Brownells website that have XBRN16A1 on sale for $1199.99. So if you got yours for $730.00 that was one heck of buy. For that much price difference why not just replace the Forward Assist and enjoy your gun. (You already said you are going to replace the handguard).

p.s. There are alot of us that want to know how to get $450.00’knocked off of the price.

Click to expand...

GunnyUSMC said:

Then there’s the part where you keep talking about the broken forward assist being made of aluminum. I have never seen a retro forward assist made of aluminum.

Click to expand...

The reference to aluminum came from their gun tech - I asked what the part was made out of, and he replied they are made of cast aluminum. And that he had seen them break before. He was not unfamiliar with the upper - in fact he noted that he'd seen those tabs on tear drop assist break off.

GunnyUSMC said:

First off, did you send pics of the problems to Brownell’s?

Click to expand...

Yes, I beleive I mentioned that I did. The first thing I did was to send an email to them with detailed description, and several photos of the issue, within a few hours of receiving the part. They did not reply to my email. I called them after almost a week of waiting for a reply.

GunnyUSMC said:

Do you have a problem with them inspecting the upper before they make a decision?

Click to expand...

No, of course not. But they did not offer that option. The choices were binary. Return only. No exchanges. No offer to inspect or repair or replace - in fact a singular response from all three individuals that the only option was to just return it.

GunnyUSMC said:

These uppers are not built by Brownell’s. They are built for them. You can’t expect them to open every item they carry and inspect it before they ship it.

Click to expand...

Fair enough. But it is not unreasonable to expect a vendor to stand behind a product (particularly when they have a warranty policy on their website). It is not unreasonable for me to be disenchanted with them when they do not honor their warranty policy, for a repair or replacement.

GunnyUSMC said:

You seemed more upset that they didn’t have answers to how or what happened to the upper to have caused the damage. Would it had made you feel better if the guy at Brownell’s would have just made up a story?

Click to expand...

You have misread me then. I was concerned about the quality of the component parts, and the lack of customer support and followup on their part.

GunnyUSMC said:

Just send it back for a refund and build what you want.

Click to expand...

Yep, already done. Sent back this morning, on my way back from the disastrous committee hearing on an AWB bill. I have a C7 upper that I've been meaning to build, and will get on the list for an NDS retro upper. I do have to say - that NDS upper receiver on the Brownell's product looked very good.

So ... moving on to bigger an better builds, while I still can in my state.

GunnyUSMC said:

I have a few friends that have built retro rifles with NoDak Spuds uppers and lowers.
What look are you going for?

Click to expand...

I'm going for broke (literally),
XM16E1 (like my older cousin carried).
M16A1 (the first one I handled) - PSA is allegedly coming out with an M16A1 lower in the next months (hopefully before July 1).
M16A2 (I have the CAPCO upper and an M16A2 lower from PSA)
and maybe ...
Model 606 (HBAR late model XM16 ... limited release intended as a light MG / proto-SAW). My C7 may go on this one.

I've already got my HBARs and M4geries.

Basically hedging against a possible AWB in my state effective July 1 ... so aiming for 1 AR build per month until then ...

Thanks for the suggestions - I'm good with my CAPCO A2 upper, but will bear the DPMS in mind in case the wife gets bitten by the retro bug as well. But ... since DPMS is now toast, might be worth picking up just for the sake of it. (btw, it was strongly hinted that the Brownell's A1 uppers use some DMPS parts, at least the forward assist and A1 sights. Remingtons decision to shut down DPMS could have a ripple effect ...

JSE rocks! Great people. Had a chat with them a few weeks ago (just before Shot Show). FWIW, they've got a parts shortage for their A1 retro uppers. Out of delta rings and A1 sights. And they're out of their retro kits.

GunnyUSMC said:

Midway still has DPMS A2 uppers for $170 complet or $97 striped.
View attachment 890236
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1003327687

I normally go to JSE Surplus when I need a barrel with a sight tower.
CDNN has a bunch of DPMS and Bushmaster barrels on sale right now, but I think they only have 16” barrels with front sight towers.

Click to expand...

BSA1 said:

If you are not planning to do it I would focus on getting as many Lowers as you want or can get before July as Lowers are the “firearm.”
Assuming of course the antis don’t get smart and add parts like the barrel being a “assault rifle.”

Click to expand...

That they did,... they included the component parts to the list of prohibited items in the proposed AWB bill: " "Assault firearm" includes any part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert, modify, or otherwise alter a firearm into an assault firearm, or any combination of parts that may be readily assembled into an assault firearm." So while under Federal law the lower is the "firearm", proposed state law would complicate acquisition of parts after the effective date. Hopefully the measure dies in the state Senate.