Cast bullet sizing.

Thoughts on Lee Liquid Alox, after using it on home cast regular profile bullets for cowboy action shooting:

Most folks use too much. I dilute it about 1 part Alox to 10 parts mineral spirits, makes it very watery. Put 100 bullets or so in a plastic bowl (margarine tub), add about a teaspoon of the diluted mixture, then swirl the bullets in the bowl while blowing them with a hot hair dryer. (Wear a glove; the bowl gets hot.) The mineral spirits evaporate off in about a minute. You are done when the stuff no longer looks shiny and the bullets are clumping together. (It smells, so don't do this in your house, garage workshop is better.) You want a very slight color change on the surface of the bullet, a slight golden color is all you need. Repeat if you think you need more lube. But you won't.

The bullets will still feel a bit tacky after the mineral spirits have evaporated. I spread the bullets on waxed paper, cool them down quickly with the hair dryer setting on cool. Then sprinkle a dash of corn starch on the bullets and roll them around until they are all evenly coated. Tacky feel is gone, and you can load them immediately. None of this waiting overnight to dry. The whole process takes about 10 minutes if you make up your diluted solution before hand. Alox dissolves slowly, so I keep a mustard bottle of the diluted solution on the shelf. It settles over time, so shake it up once in a while.

Check your loading dies occasionally. Alox will build up in your dies eventually. If it builds up quickly, you are using too much.

i do the shake and bake powder coating. then i size them with no lube. if the bullet needs a gas check i put the gas check on then powder coat.

frankmako said:

i do the shake and bake powder coating. then i size them with no lube. if the bullet needs a gas check i put the gas check on then powder coat.

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How do you determine if a bullet also needs a gas check. By design or have you observed a reason to add one. I got a rcbs 180gr mold that is made for a gas check in 357 but intended to try with only PC

Xcobra122 said:

What about the liquid alox? Is that any good?

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I’ve shot many thousands of bullets lube with it, or (even better) with an alox and Johnson’s Paste Wax mix. What it won’t do is compensate for a too small bullet. If your bullets aren’t fat enough you’re going to get leading. It’s easy and cheap enough to give it a try. You really don’t have much to lose.

I use lee molds. I have yet to size a single bullet. I use alox. I only use cast bullets for target loads in 38 special and 44 special. I have found the Lee tumble lube bullets do not work well in my auto loaders.

AJC1 said:

How do you determine if a bullet also needs a gas check. By design or have you observed a reason to add one. I got a rcbs 180gr mold that is made for a gas check in 357 but intended to try with only PC

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A gas check certainly isn’t needed but with lead lubed bullets allows you to push the bullets faster without leading. When using powder coated bullets a gas check might provide better accuracy but depending on your requirements that might not matter.

Lee molds here also. Also don't resize them.
I've been using alox for years but I have been thinking I tired of the mess and smell so I'm thinking I'm going to start using HI-TECH coating on my bullets and baking them.

Have to visit Good Will.

AJC1 said:

How do you determine if a bullet also needs a gas check. By design or have you observed a reason to add one. I got a rcbs 180gr mold that is made for a gas check in 357 but intended to try with only PC

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the 357 mag 180 rcbs mold should be the silhouette mold. that mold is a gas check bullet. i use the same mold. you can run a gas check bullet without the gas check. but i have not done so. some have and have had no problems. the bullet should work ok without the gas check, it has two good driving bands on it. the only way to know is to try it.

hdbiker said:

I've always used LEE bullet molds and find they drop bullets so close to perfect I quit sizing them. hdbiker

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I've been lurking the many posts and great wealth of information on this site for the past year I've been learning about casting. I couldn't have done without it - Thank you all so much for sharing all this great information!!!

I got my first 6-cavity LEE after using 2-cavity molds up til now, and while all the 2-cavity molds were dropping pretty much perfectly, with this 6-cavity about half of them produced cartridges which I couldn't even chamber in a S&W model 10... I bought a LEE push-thru sizer for .357" and for my volumes the extra 3-5 seconds per bullet is worth the discount LEE mold. From now on, I'm buying 6-cavity and sizer together in any case I don't have the sizer yet.


maybe this is not the best thread, but anybody have information about cast, powder coated (from Powder Buy The Pound) bullets sized to .357 instead of .358, loaded for only maybe up to 1000fps? I'm hoping the PC makes them act more like jacketeds, than acting like lubed lead sized to .358. Opinions? Or better, information? I'll be shooting these both 38sp and 357 mag, and both revolver and Ruger 77/357 rifle...
Thanks! Cheers!

The advantage to sizing bullets is uniformity. My experience with the Lee six cavity molds is that there can be up to .003” in variation between the cavities. You can feel it when sizing them because a certain percentage feel easier or harder to push thru the die. If you’re just loading for plinking it doesn’t matter unless some of them are too fat to chamber, but for maximum accuracy it helps if they are all the same size. I have one revolver with tight chambers than really doesn’t like to chamber bullets fatter than .359.

Elkins45 said:

The advantage to sizing bullets is uniformity. My experience with the Lee six cavity molds is that there can be up to .003” in variation between the cavities. You can feel it when sizing them because a certain percentage feel easier or harder to push thru the die. If you’re just loading for plinking it doesn’t matter unless some of them are too fat to chamber, but for maximum accuracy it helps if they are all the same size. I have one revolver with tight chambers than really doesn’t like to chamber bullets fatter than .359.

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Elkins : Do you happen to have any advice on disabling 357mag cartridges in the case the bullet cannot be pulled? I've got a dozen I assembled before I discovered that my new mold isn't as regular as the rest, and since they're RoundNoses, my bullet puller just won't clamp small enough to pull them. And all the other methods I've used (primarily various forms of ViseGrips and leverage) have so far just ripped the exposed lead off, leaving me a live cartridge with a flat plug at the case mouth. I'd love to save the cases, but at this point I'd just like to make them either empty or otherwise dead, and I don't have anything they'll chamber in, to fire them out.

Deleted.

AJC1 said:

How do you determine if a bullet also needs a gas check. By design or have you observed a reason to add one. I got a rcbs 180gr mold that is made for a gas check in 357 but intended to try with only PC

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Gas checks prevent gas blow by or hot gases acting on the heel of the bullet adding to or increasing the amount of leading in the bore.

I use both a 357 and 44 Magnum bullet that can be has checked. For 38 and 44 reduced loads I don’t apply the gas checks.

For 357mag and 38sp, is it going to be OK that my powdercoated home-cast bullets are sized to .357" instead of .358"? I ask because I see that all my jacketed bullets are .357" but the lead ones I bought before I started casting them were all .358." I'm hoping I didn't waste the $20 I spent on the .357" sizer...

And related and while we're on it, how much does the powder coating prevent the same leading which the gas checks are preventing? As in, How much of what the gas check does, is the powder coating doing?

Thornapple said:

Elkins : Do you happen to have any advice on disabling 357mag cartridges in the case the bullet cannot be pulled? I've got a dozen I assembled before I discovered that my new mold isn't as regular as the rest, and since they're RoundNoses, my bullet puller just won't clamp small enough to pull them. And all the other methods I've used (primarily various forms of ViseGrips and leverage) have so far just ripped the exposed lead off, leaving me a live cartridge with a flat plug at the case mouth. I'd love to save the cases, but at this point I'd just like to make them either empty or otherwise dead, and I don't have anything they'll chamber in, to fire them out.

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I have pulled really difficult bullets by installing a shellholder and removing the dies from my press, then running the case up so it pokes out the top. Then I clamp the bullet with vice grips and let them butt against the top of the press while I lower the ram. Because it’s a straight pull it seems to work.

For the ones that have already been ripped off you might try screwing a deck or drywall screw into them and then using the technique described above. But the best answer is just to buy yourself one of the hammer-type kinetic bullet pullers. Whack it enough times and it will eventually fly out. I’ve never met a bullet that’s stuck so badly an inertial puller wouldn’t get them out. The Frankfort Arsenal version is less than $8 at Midway right now. https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1012714588?pid=215517

Elkins45 said:

I have pulled really difficult bullets by installing a shellholder and removing the dies from my press, then running the case up so it pokes out the top. Then I clamp the bullet with vice grips and let them butt against the top of the press while I lower the ram. Because it’s a straight pull it seems to work.

For the ones that have already been ripped off you might try screwing a deck or drywall screw into them and then using the technique described above. But the best answer is just to buy yourself one of the hammer-type kinetic bullet pullers. Whack it enough times and it will eventually fly out. I’ve never met a bullet that’s stuck so badly an inertial puller wouldn’t get them out. The Frankfort Arsenal version is less than $8 at Midway right now. https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1012714588?pid=215517

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So I'm clear, there's no concern about using that kinetic buller puller on a fully live cartridge? Assumedly few people are going to be pulling the bullets from cartridges that aren't assembled fully... okay maybe it's a dumb question. But I don't think I'm going to delete it.... *smile* Thanks for the link!

Thornapple said:

So I'm clear, there's no concern about using that kinetic buller puller on a fully live cartridge? Assumedly few people are going to be pulling the bullets from cartridges that aren't assembled fully... okay maybe it's a dumb question. But I don't think I'm going to delete it.... *smile* Thanks for the link!

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Yes it's ok to use on live ammunition. I use mine a lot when setting my seating die and I scew in to far.

Thornapple said:

For 357mag and 38sp, is it going to be OK that my powdercoated home-cast bullets are sized to .357" instead of .358"? I ask because I see that all my jacketed bullets are .357" but the lead ones I bought before I started casting them were all .358." I'm hoping I didn't waste the $20 I spent on the .357" sizer...

And related and while we're on it, how much does the powder coating prevent the same leading which the gas checks are preventing? As in, How much of what the gas check does, is the powder coating doing?

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You should run lead .358, you should return your .357 sizer or hone it out to .358. If you run your lead through the sizer and then PC you may be good.

AJC1 said:

You should run lead .358, you should return your .357 sizer or hone it out to .358. If you run your lead through the sizer and then PC you may be good.

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AJC, Since I already have the .357 one, what could I use it for in the future? As in, what is it /for/, since folks aren't likely to be sizing their homemade copper-jacketed bullets?

Thornapple said:

AJC, Since I already have the .357 one, what could I use it for in the future? As in, what is it /for/, since folks aren't likely to be sizing their homemade copper-jacketed bullets?

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Might work for 9mm boolits when you start casting those. Although .356 works fine in my LCP.

Thornapple said:

Elkins : Do you happen to have any advice on disabling 357mag cartridges in the case the bullet cannot be pulled? I've got a dozen I assembled before I discovered that my new mold isn't as regular as the rest, and since they're RoundNoses, my bullet puller just won't clamp small enough to pull them. And all the other methods I've used (primarily various forms of ViseGrips and leverage) have so far just ripped the exposed lead off, leaving me a live cartridge with a flat plug at the case mouth. I'd love to save the cases, but at this point I'd just like to make them either empty or otherwise dead, and I don't have anything they'll chamber in, to fire them out.

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No reloader should be without a “whack a mole”. I use mine all the time! Im on my second one in 50 years. Be sure to buy the all plastic one and not the one with the aluminum stem. I broke the first aluminum one I think mine is a green RCBS.

AJC1 said:

You should run lead .358, you should return your .357 sizer or hone it out to .358. If you run your lead through the sizer and then PC you may be good.

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I run .359 and .360 in my BH
.359 very minimal leading!
.360 even less leading!
.361 0 leading, but they won’t consistently chamber.

Catpop said:

Might work for 9mm boolits when you start casting those. Although .356 works fine in my LCP.

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ah.... so cast lead should be .358" for 357/38sp which are .357" when jacketed, then safe to say cast lead should be .357" for 9mm which are .356" when jacketed?? I'm mostly trying to understand why the sizer for .357" exists, if lead should always be .358." Also, obviously, hoping to find a use for (justify) something I bought, cuz I hate wasting anything (I'm snail-trapping and remelting my bullets), and cuz I didn't really research it enough when I picked that one and that's a little embarrassing.

Thornapple said:

ah.... so cast lead should be .358" for 357/38sp which are .357" when jacketed, then safe to say cast lead should be .357" for 9mm which are .356" when jacketed?? I'm mostly trying to understand why the sizer for .357" exists, if lead should always be .358." Also, obviously, hoping to find a use for (justify) something I bought, cuz I hate wasting anything (I'm snail-trapping and remelting my bullets), and cuz I didn't really research it enough when I picked that one and that's a little embarrassing.

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.357 sizer can be used in 9 mm. You could use it in 38 if you size before powder coat. I would prefer to use the larger sizer after powdercoat for the best consistency.

Thornapple said:

ah.... so cast lead should be .358" for 357/38sp which are .357" when jacketed, then safe to say cast lead should be .357" for 9mm which are .356" when jacketed?? I'm mostly trying to understand why the sizer for .357" exists, if lead should always be .358." Also, obviously, hoping to find a use for (justify) something I bought, cuz I hate wasting anything (I'm snail-trapping and remelting my bullets), and cuz I didn't really research it enough when I picked that one and that's a little embarrassing.

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Yes, you can use an inertial bullet puller on loaded ammo. That’s what it was designed for. I put a small cotton ball in the bottom of mine so it doesn’t deform the tips of pointy jacketed bullets.

The proper size for a cast lead bullet is really determined by the size of your barrel. A general rule is to shoot them as big as will fit into the chamber reliably, and no smaller. Bullets that are too small allow hot gasses to blow by the base and that is the primary cause of leading. I size 9mm bullets as large as .358 and 38/357 as large as .359. How large are they when they drop from the mold? You might even be able to get away with shooting them unsized if your gun has fairly large throats.