Why is the .40 cal still around?

It's probably around because there's still enough demand for it. I have two handguns in .40 myself.

Sigh.........

lets just say because there are eleventy billion .40 caliber pistols out there in the hands you, me and officer alike.

Why is .357 SIG still out there?
.41 Mag???

I mean hell the 10mm brigade is thrilled at the “spike in 10mm” and let’s be honest, wanna bet there were two or three pistols more in .40 sold vs. 10mm

Hell I can get .45 GAP and like three people who don’t have an Uncle or Grandfather named Gaston have pistols chambered in that.

SOOO REALLY??? Why is .40 still around? Just saying.

But that whole problem of .40 caliber bouncing off the bad guys really needs to be addressed.

Aim1 said:

with the quality and technology of todays ammo making the 9mm nearly capable of the .40 cal, why is the .40 cal still around?

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Because the same technology that improved 9mm ammunition ALSO IMPROVED 40S&W ammunition.

Aim1 said:

Doesn't the .40 cal have very similar characteristics to the 9mm?

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Yes, with greater flexibility.

I started shooting USPSA with 45ACP and 9mm but transitioned to 40S&W because I could readily meet major power factor with 165/180 gr bullets with milder/gentler recoil and meet minor power factor with 155/165 gr bullets.

I replaced my Glock 17/19/26 with Glock 22/23/27 because I had the flexibility to shoot 9mm for cheaper practice using 40-9mm conversion barrels.

With police trade-in Glock 22/23 available from $320+ and 40-9mm conversion barrel costing $43, it's a flexible shooting option to shoot both 9mm and 40S&W - https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/bc...-9mm-conversion-barrel-stainless-steel-finish

Even with a suppressor for $45 - https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/bc...rel-stainless-steel-finish-threaded-unbranded

Probably because the FIB just kicked it to the curb, about twenty minutes ago, after spending over two decades, acting like it was the best thing since sliced bread ?

The more pertinent question is "Why is 9mm Parabellum still a thing?" It's mystifying.

Good thread. It’s something that should be discussed on a regular basis.

It’s still around because it’s a good cartridge. Just like 9mm and 45 ACP

readyeddy said:

Good thread. It’s something that should be discussed on a regular basis.

It’s still around because it’s a good cartridge. Just like 9mm and 45 ACP

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And even 22LR is alive and well.

Maybe so you can actually afford to shoot a minigun?

Partly because --admittedly a small example-- the widespread Sig P229 in .40 caliber, whether in DA/SA or DAO, is such a reliable, solid and popular gun.

I never noticed any clear recoil difference between a 9mm and .40 Sig P229. And my hands are not the strongest—-

I have not shot the gun games for a while. So my concern is what I carry. Which is all 9mm. In carrying two pistols, both 9mm the Glock 19 4th Gen Currently, the G43X when my Urban Carry holster arrives.
A lighter, more concealable package. Not shot anyone yet, probably will not ever but we carry pistols in the off chance we will be dragged into a confrontation. I have on more than one occasion pointed pistols at individuals.
It seems to me, the 9mm has caused cease and desist of illegal activities when placed in the correct area of the human body. For in excess of 100 years. Especially at close range, as in headshots. With manageable recoil.

"I never noticed any clear recoil difference between a 9mm and .40 Sig P229." This was the argument put forth when I worked for Glock GA. Selling 6000 different models of Glock .40 calibre pistols. To the Toronto Police Force.
As in it kicked less in .40 than 9mm? So a pistol weighing the same, more or less, firing a projectile one weighed 165g the .40. And one weighing 124g the 9mm at the same velocity, the .40 recoiled less? The reason this conclusion was arrived at? The Staff Sgt. wanted the .40. Who had the last word as the Chief Instructor.

The old conclusion "To each his own" seems to fit.

The 40 is more popular than ever for civilians with all the police agencies going back to 9mm. Quite the flood of police trade in 40s being distributed out there now.

Old Guy said:

The old conclusion "To each his own" seems to fit.

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Yes.

I have helped select guns for females shooters quite a few times over the decades. I always advise the boyfriends/husbands to stay quiet and allow the girlfriends/wives to shoot various 380Auto/9mm/40S&W/45ACP pistols in peace and let them pick the pistol they feel most comfortable and be able to shoot fastest most accurate.

To our surprise, many of them shot 40S&W and 45ACP (Particularly 1911s) well and ended up choosing them. And I have noticed, vast majority of them end up shooting Glocks faster and more accurate than other pistols. When my state agency office female workers wanted to be armed because federal judge released a bunch of inmates from prisons due to "overcrowding" and crime rate shot up, most of them chose 45ACP as their caliber of choice (I took all of them to the range and had them shoot different caliber pistols) and rest chose 40S&W. Yup, none of them chose 9mm.

My sister is 5' 5" with smaller hands and after shooting various 9/40/45 pistols, she chose M&P40 as she felt most comfortable and she was very accurate with it to the point she shoots matches with it. My wife shot all of my 9mm/40S&W/45ACP pistols and comfortably shoots 40S&W/45ACP pistols as well as 9mm pistols. Her favorites? M&P45 and Glock 22.

Last year, 20s neighborhood couple showed up at the local shooting spot and boyfriend wanted to get his girlfriend (who never shot before) a carry pistol because her workplace got robbed at gunpoint along with other businesses. After she shot various 9mm/40S&W/45ACP pistols we had, she ended up shooting my Glock 23 with factory ammo the best. Her boyfriend and I were surprised as we both thought she would do well with a 9mm. After repeat shooting different pistols, she said, "I like this one the best". I taught both of them defensive point shooting (took over 4 hours that day) and she was producing fast tight groups at multiple targets at 7-10 yards using Glock 23 and factory ammo. After several hundred rounds, she never complained about the "snappy" felt recoil several days later when we did a follow up training session. (BTW, when some Glock owners who never replace their recoil spring assembly complain about snappy recoil, I hand them my spare new RSA I keep in my range bag and their complaint disappear afterwards Same for 1911 shooters with noticeable reduction in muzzle climb I like Wilson Combat 18.5 lb spring for factory JHP loads)

So yes, I would say 40S&W is still very relevant, even for female shooters.

It's amazing how in the last 10 years, because of improvements to 9mm hollow points, that people have assumed that because 9mm is now more effective for self defense that that means it is now superior to .40 in performance.

It's not, the .40 has decades of proven performance and is a larger, heavier projectile than 9mm. Generally a larger, heavier bullet is considered the more effective projectile.

9mm is largely regarded as the minimum for self defense in a semi auto handgun due to its penetration with an expanded hollow point exceeding that of what .380 or smaller calibers can do, but it's really amazing how because the ammo is significantly cheaper than .40 is and the recoil a bit less than .40 is that that makes it "better" than .40 is.

Personally, I think both calibers have their merits; 9mm is the best for subcompact pistols like the P365 or single stacks while .40 is best for full size pistols like a Glock 35. However with how the 10mm is in a resurgence and good hollow points are available at prices similar to bonded .40 S&W ammo, it's hard not to with a 10mm, but the low prices on used .40 pistols is a lot less than 10mm ones are and makes it tough to choose.

If there's any caliber that we should be asking why it's is still around, it's .45 ACP. That was created using abysmally obsolete ballistic testing to simulate the same performance as black powder .45 Schofield ammo in single action revolvers. People say that recoil is less with .45 than .40, but I've found in shooting them in Gen 4 Glocks back to back, the felt recoil is identical.

It's always good to have a variety of calibers for ammo shortages and dooms day (which is not discussed here).

I will only consider carrying 9mm with the best ammo. If I can't get the best, I will definitely carry 40 or 45 or 357.

It's amazing how in the last 10 years, because of improvements to 9mm hollow points, that people have assumed that because 9mm is now more effective for self defense that that means it is now superior to .40 in performance.

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Same reason your Grandfather’s 30-06 is now bazooka overkill for medium game and varmint calibers are now perfect for them...

Because it still works and there are millions of 40 cal handguns out there to feed.

Personally I also think assuming it performs the same as 9mm is erroneous. Extra mass and diameter MAY mean better performance and terminal ballistics in the right circumstances.

LiveLife said:

And even 22LR is alive and well.

Maybe so you can actually afford to shoot a minigun?

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If you don’t mind the $3000 buy in that one is even cheaper to shoot than if it were a .22. It’s an air soft mini gun. Made by Piper’s Precision Products, shooting 6mm steel BB’s


There is an aftermath video of the TV where you can see some of the tube still intact and the firing video posted 4 years before the one you linked to.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbAuHH2SYmYGjCWcT0s9xRQ.

DocRock said:

The more pertinent question is "Why is 9mm Parabellum still a thing?" It's mystifying.

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That's a question for the ages. The king of being the best at nothing, a monument to mediocrity.

Something being made better doesn’t corollate to the other being made worse. Why not?

jmorris said:

Same reason your Grandfather’s 30-06 is now bazooka overkill for medium game and varmint calibers are now perfect for them...

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hunting and self defense are two different criteria

That’s true, one you need death as quickly as possible the other you just need to stop the threat.

jmorris said:

That’s true, one you need death as quickly as possible the other you just need to stop the threat.

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Yes, on one hand what you are hunting is not an immediate threat to your well being while on the other a threat that justifies lethal force typically is.

For hunting, that which is adequate for the game you're taking at a certain distance is adequate, but for self defense it's a factor of performance and proficiency under stress where fractions of a second have significant consequences.

That's why I say 9mm isn't useless, nor is .40, but if all I had was the opportunity for one shot, I would rather have the .40

Because some people don't allow cherry picked propoganda cloud their ability to be objective.

I believe the correct spelling is 45GAP and NOT 40 cal as you typed.

The 40 is still around because people are still buying ammo for it. If people continue to buy ammo for it. it will be around for a while.

As to why people are buying it. Market is flooding with cheap 40's. I have bought more 40's in the past year. before i had one since 2006. Now i have 7. The round does what it needs/designed to do.