Why is the .40 cal still around?

DocRock said:

The more pertinent question is "Why is 9mm Parabellum still a thing?" It's mystifying.

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Greatness often lies not in knowing the answer, but in asking the right question!

One reason the Polaroid Land camera was ever developed.

readyeddy said:

Good thread. It’s something that should be discussed on a regular basis.

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I enjoyed this sarcasm. Well done.

I’ve seen police trade-in Glock 22s for $279 and pristine S&W M&P40s for $249. You won’t find the 9mm versions at that price. I bought a new Kahr K40 for $302 when the K9 was (and is) still priced at over $600. I started getting into 40 at about the time everyone else was abandoning it, and I found some fantastic bargains as a result.

The 40 is a fine cartridge, especially if you are a reloader, and the same advancements that improved 9mm bullets also improved 10mm ones. In a mid-sized gun the typical 40 carries 12 rounds compared to 15 in 9mm. For the average CCW encounter if you’re on round 11 and still shooting you probably need to think about running away. Filling the sky with three more bullets probably won’t save you.

If my family and I had to bug out, I would leave the 40s and 45s in the safe. Rifles and shotguns are most important and handguns are just backup so I would want lightest and highest capacity 9mm for each person. It makes perfect sense for the military to use 9mm pistols.

Hart, I go the other way. I have a pair if G22's and a G23 for "bugging" out. All with there own 9mm and 357 barrel for scavenging ammo.

Hartkopf said:

If my family and I had to bug out

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Bugging out is so 2000. Many actually tried to survive with their bug out vehicles and trailers and most found out they could not last 1-2 weeks, if that. Now in 2020, it's stay and defend with expanded pantry that should be good for at least a month that you ACTUALLY EAT on an ongoing rotation, 2-3 month even better. And most people have bath tubs that could be filled with water (or use tub bags) - https://www.amazon.com/WaterBOB-Emergency-Container-Drinking-Hurricane/dp/B001AXLUX2

Anyone who lived on MREs in the military (I have) will agree bugging out and eating significantly different food that is old/questionable will wreck your digestive system (runs or constipation) especially coupled with unreliable source of drinking water (And no, MREs don't last forever but dry pasta dang near will). Staying and eating the same "safe" food you have been eating for years is a much better option. Besides, how much can you carry? How about 1 month worth of food/water/toilet paper etc.? What, you forgot about toilet paper? And where do you get gasoline/diesel in the woods? ...

If you live in high crime metropolitan cities, move to lower crime rural areas with natural resources or practice saying "It's a great day to die" if significant natural disaster hits and law and order goes away for an extended period of time like hurricane frequented parts of the country as looters/criminals will turn to robbery/rape/murder after ransacking stores. (Yeah, after hurricane Andrew, media for some reason kinda stopped reporting this aspect)

OK, back to OP.

LiveLife said:

Bugging out is so 2000. Many actually tried to survive with their bug out vehicles and trailers and most found out they could not last 1-2 weeks, if that. Now in 2020, it's stay and defend with expanded pantry that should be good for at least a month that you ACTUALLY EAT on an ongoing rotation, 2-3 month even better.

If you live in high crime metropolitan cities, move to lower crime rural areas with natural resources or practice saying "It's a great day to die" if significant natural disaster hits and law and order goes away for an extended period of time like hurricane frequented parts of the country as looters/criminals will turn to robbery after ransacking stores.

OK, back to OP.

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Oh I'm with you, bugging out is the LAST option. Only bug out when the house is falling in around you and all the 40 and 45 ammo is used up, carry the 9s on the way out.

Well, I don't know why .40 cal is around YOU, but it's around ME because I carry it and use it.

I do agree with that, for the most part. But we own some land on the side of a mountain. with a cabin and a ton of survival gear. Our plan is to retreat and live there. So i been using the term "bugging out". its off the beaten path and is close enough for a 4 hour hike while bogged down with gear. I have done it to test it. out place is to fill our ATV with a special cart i made and grab all the ammo and food as i can. Tho there is enough up there to last a very long time. Plus plentiful game species up there

Robbins290 said:

I do agree with that, for the most part. But we own some land on the side of a mountain. with a cabin and a ton of survival gear. Our plan is to retreat and live there.

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Unless some people get there first.

Believe me, there are people who have scoped out all the hunting cabins/shacks and even underground shelters deep in the woods and will ransack those areas first or occupy them before you get there.

Instead, for retirement I already "bugged out" my family to a rural acreage property with only one private road in/out, fresh water supply (well and several rivers near by), growing our own food/animals, with easy access to ocean/river fishing and hunting.

Several neighbors around us have the same thought/approach with plans to barricade the private road with vehicles and snipe from protected positions down the private road.

I never considered the .40SW recoil to be excessive, and when I switched from the M&P9 to the G23, my groups tightened up considerably. Then came the P229 in 40SW and the single ragged hole at 40 feet. When handed two similar pistols in 9mm and 40SW I always shoot the 40SW better. G19 vs G23, 5906 vs 4006, P229, etc. Yes, it kicks more with comparable type loads, because it's obviously more powerful. For me and other people I know, we're more accurate with 40SW. If enough people believe it works better for them, maybe that's why it's still around.

I think as gun folks as we are it's a good idea to have at least one firearm or barrel conversion of each ammo type 9, 40, and 45. My mainstay is 9mm for sure and I'm not moving away from it anytime soon as it fits the bill the best for what is needed.

But in political crunch times its nice to have options. In good times 9mm is plentiful and cheap, in bad political times 9mm is sold out and price gets elevated to that of .40 if one can find it. So in good times stack 9mm deep and in tough political times break out the 40 and 45 and practice with the backup firearms. I only say backup weapons because that is what my 40's and 45's are.

LiveLife said:

Unless some people get there first.

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its a long dirt road that is not maintain. and only one guy lives up there. before my land. and no one is getting past him. he is a gun guy also. We are pretty much at the end of the road. We exchange things every now and then. Great guy. pretty certain no one will be getting there first. But i always practice a different way into the cleared out land incase its compromised. Can not just roll in there thinking i will have zero resistance. Always prepare for worst case.

Seriously?

The search query on .40 cal is like inviting an avalanche.

Personally, I think the 40 fits a good spot in between 9 and 45. It's not my preference but I see the point of it's design and specifications.

My first semi-auto handgun was a 45 didn't particularly care for the ammo cost and capacity limitations, moved to 40 after that and liked it better than 45; but soon moved to 9mm and understand why it's the most popular handgun cartridge out there. There's a reason why it's the oldest of the big three (9, 40, and 45) and is still very popular; it strikes the best balance in my opinion to power, capacity, controllability and is very cost effective.

Now for a PCC for use with a suppressor, I do have a soft spot for an eventual 45 ACP, it just makes good sense for a wide meplat at subsonic speeds.

DocRock said:

The more pertinent question is "Why is 9mm Parabellum still a thing?" It's mystifying.

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There is functionally zero difference in muzzle energy, one shot stop or any other metric between all the service calibers. This means 38 special, 9mm, 40 and 45.

Since you have that it comes down to personal preference basically. In autos you get more 9mm than 40 or 45 in the same gun, so that's a thing. It's all around 400 ish ft lbs so we really aren't talking a lot of power here.

Personally.....I'd rather get a 10mm if I wanted a 40 Cal, I see little reason to settle on the 40 in any situation

<*(((>< said:

Now for a PCC for use with a suppressor, I do have a soft spot for an eventual 45 ACP, it just makes good sense for a wide meplat at subsonic speeds.

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You can get Just Right carbine with 9mm/40S&W/45ACP conversion kits - https://justrightcarbines.com/product/caliber-conversion-kit/

Everything is modular, including magwells, to use Glock/M&P/1911 magazines. But I would prefer 26 round Glock extended magazines over single stack extended magazines for "feeds like butter" reliability and why I went with JR carbine instead of buying separate 9mm/40S&W/45ACP PCC uppers/lowers.

LiveLife said:

You can get Just Right carbine with 9mm/40S&W/45ACP conversion kits - https://justrightcarbines.com/product/caliber-conversion-kit/

Everything is modular, including magwells, to use Glock/M&P/1911 magazines. But I would prefer 26 round Glock extended magazines over single stack extended magazines for "feeds like butter" reliability and why I went with JR carbine instead of buying separate 9mm/40S&W/45ACP PCC uppers/lowers.

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I would like to get a CMMG radial delayed bolt setup or a roller delayed HK style .45 as it would eliminate a lot of the port pop that happens on direct blowback especially when suppressed. I have a 9mmAR and while it is nice, it would be nice to get away from direct blow back.

To me, it's still based on carrying:
-the largest gun,
-in the largest caliber,
-with the largest capacity,
-that you can shoot well,
-and carry with you,
-Always.

If it is a .40, then carry a .40... .

Antihero said:

Personally.....I'd rather get a 10mm if I wanted a 40 Cal, I see little reason to settle on the 40 in any situation

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Grip size. Glock 40 frames being identical size as 9mm is nice. 10mm is a fat bass turd for a Glock.

I think the more appropriate is why not the 40 and why everyone is suddenly thinking the little 9mm is somehow superior to the larger round. I carry one because it's a good compromise between the 45 and the 9mm. In the same size gun with comparable recoil both carrying what I consider enough rounds for a self defense situation why would I want to carry a little mediocre 9mm when I can use a round with a 40 grain heavier projectile traveling close to the same speed?

Since it was invented, there are millions of pistols out there that fire it. Love it or hate it, its here to stay. Many of them are becoming LE surplus and available cheap, now that many agencies have realized it may not be the best round. I'm not especially fond of it, but I do have an old Glock 23 gen 2. It rides on my belt in the woods during hunting season.

Because, contrary to internet lore, the 9mm is NOT made of magic!

If the capabilities of the 9mm get too much more exaggerated, we'll be seeing threads titled "Why is the .44 Magnum still around?"

Antihero said:

Personally.....I'd rather get a 10mm if I wanted a 40 Cal, I see little reason to settle on the 40 in any situation

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If I'm going to deal with the fat grip on a 10mm gun (I carry glocks) I'm going to be carrying a 45.