Winchester rimfire ammo really let me down.

i'm going to have to reevaluate my naa mini revolver now. it is loaded with some kind of winchester ammo and, in the recent past, the gun has given me fits. i blamed the gun, of course. now i'll shoot a bunch of cci ammo through it at my next range session and see if it's that winchester ammo I have been shooting.

thanks for the heads up,

murf

Craig_VA said:

On-topic reply:
I am currently working my way through a bulk box (550 rounds) of Winchester .22LR that has caused me one problem. I have a Heritage Rough Rider, a S&W Model 41, and two Hi-Standard Model 103 Citations, that I put my .22lR though. The Winchester will not feed properly in any of the three semi-autos, repeatedly locking them up. As a result, I am using up the Winchester in my RR, and have a bulk box of Federal for the other three. After all the problems with the handgun semi-autos, I did not even bother testing the Winchester in my 10/22.

So, once finished off, that will be the last of Winchester rimfire I buy. Meanwhile, I am finding that Winchester centerfire is working fine for me in several calibres.

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Craig, I am going to give you a bit of unsolicited advice. High Standard pistols although known for great accuracy are vulnerable to cracks in their frames when shot with modern Hi Velocity ammo. All Hi Standard pistol experts recommend shooting only standard velocity (1070 FPS) ammo to avoid this problem.

I don't shoot rimfires much anymore, but when I did, it was almost always either CCI or Federal. I've got a lifetime supply (for me) probably. For some of you it probably wouldn't last a month. Maybe less.

Dustbowl said:

@Craig_VA and @DM~
On Topic:
I’m sure Walmart told Winchester we’ll stock your product but only for x amount. So Winchester lowers their quality to be able to fill that order for that price. To not hurt their other ammo models perceived quality they rename it Universal. I seen it happen before, I’m sure they still do it now. (Also FYI Black Friday TV’s are cheaper because they are actually cheaper. Waaaayyyy cheaper)

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So your TV parts experience is "proof" that Winchesters Walmart ammo is not as good as the LG Winchester ammo?? lol

OK you proved it!!

At least to some folks that may be proof... BUT, I've shot one heck of a lot of rimfire from Walmart, and I have never experienced it being any worse or better than the rimfire from any other place that sells it. AND that includes comparing it to rimfire ammo that I SOLD, when I owned/ran a gunshop.

DM

jdavis123 said:

All Hi Standard pistol experts recommend shooting only standard velocity (1070 FPS) ammo to avoid this problem.

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BUT, you can change out the spring in them and then fire other ammo in them, without problems...

DM

DM~ said:

BUT, you can change out the spring in them and then fire other ammo in them, without problems...

DM

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Jim Barta wrote extensively on this subject. As far as I know there are only two such springs available, an 8 lb. factory duplicate and a variable spring which Barta recommended. These 22 pistols operate on a blowback system unlike most Center fire pistols. Increasing the spring tension on a .22 will likely result in cycling problems. However, due to the metallurgy of that era, standard velocity ammunition is the recommended loading to reduce the chance of cracking the frame. I have chosen to follow this advice because I trust his expertise and I do not want to chance ruining my fine and valuable target pistol. Others may do as they wish.

CCI Blazer, Federal Auto Match or Federal Value Pack 36gr. is all I'll shoot in my rimfires anymore.

I’m just trying apply my experiences with the problem OP presented. I’ve shot a lot of Winchester through my firearms and 10 years ago I never had problems. But I agree with most everyone here that in recent years the quality and consistency problems has left a lot to be desired in Winchester rimfire ammo.

Dustbowl said:

in recent years the quality and consistency problems has left a lot to be desired in Winchester rimfire ammo.

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My experience mirror other members' experience.

While Federal bulk and even Remington "Thunderdud" that gave me misfires and different "pop" and accuracy issues in past years seem to have been addressed with greater accuracy and no failure to fire, three Winchester ammo came last in my accuracy comparison tests and M22 produced the only misfires that are consistent to several rounds per box (In 10/22, GSG 1911 and several ARs with CMMG 22LR conversion bolts)

From the "real world" 22LR ammunition comparison thread, these are the results from factory stock new 10/22 Collector after close to 3000 round break-in - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...lector-3-break-in.859106/page-2#post-11351163

Most accurate to least accurate (and pending):

1. CCI Standard 40 gr LRN - Boxed - Consistent group size
2. CCI Blazer 40 gr LRN - Boxed - Consistent group size
3. Aguila 40 gr LRN - Boxed - Consistent group size
4. Aguila 40 gr CPRN - Boxed - Consistent group size
5. Federal Auto Match 40 gr LRN - Loose Bulk - Group size varied
6. Federal Field Pack 38 gr CPHP - Loose Bulk - Group size varied
7. Remington Thunderbolt 40 gr LRN - Loose Bulk - Small to large groups with flyers
8. Armscor 36 gr CPHP - Boxed - Varying group size with flyers
9. Remington Golden Bullet 36 gr CPHP - Loose Bulk - Fairly consistent group size
10. Federal Champion 40 gr LRN - Boxed - Group size varied
11. Federal Value 36 gr CPHP 550 Walmart Red Box - Loose Bulk (new solid red box) - Group size varied
12. Federal Value 36 gr CPHP 550 Walmart Red Box - Loose Bulk (old box) - Group size varied
13. Winchester XPert 36 gr LRN 500 - Loose Bulk - Group size varied
    
14. Federal Value 36 gr CPHP 525 Blue Box - Loose Bulk (older lot) - Group size varied
15. Winchester 36 gr CPHP 555 - Loose Bulk - Group size varied
16. Winchester M22 40 gr CPRN 500 - Loose Bulk (several misfires per box) - Group size varied with flyers
17. CCI Standard 40 gr LRN - Pending (new blue box)
    
18. CCI MiniMag Varmint 36 gr CPHP - Pending
19. CCI MiniMag Target 40 gr CPRN - Pending
20. Federal Match 40 gr LRN - Pending
    
21. ELEY Sport 40 gr LRN - Pending

jdavis123 said:

Jim Barta wrote extensively on this subject. As far as I know there are only two such springs available, an 8 lb. factory duplicate and a variable spring which Barta recommended. These 22 pistols operate on a blowback system unlike most Center fire pistols. Increasing the spring tension on a .22 will likely result in cycling problems. However, due to the metallurgy of that era, standard velocity ammunition is the recommended loading to reduce the chance of cracking the frame.

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I do understand this, I have been shooting my Victor since the 70's, and have won more matches with it than any other 22 I own or have owned.

No cracks on the frame of mine...

DM

Very interesting.

I have a bit of Winchester rimfire ammo, .22 LR only tho, I've never bothered with their .22 Mag cuz the price isn't good. Some guns shoot the 333/555 white box stuff good, others not so good. Super X, about the only ammo I will buy under that line is the Hyper Speed, which is Winchester's version of CCI Velocitor. It seems to be even hotter than Velocitor and it's cheaper. Not as accurate from a rifle, but from a handgun it's acceptable, so I have bought that from time to time.

Would buy more 333/555, but the price on that appears to have gone up, so I'll have to look for another cheap hollow point in .22 LR. Looks like Remington finally brought the Yellow Jacket back, may get that instead.

TTv2 said:

Would buy more 333/555, but the price on that appears to have gone up, so I'll have to look for another cheap hollow point in .22 LR.

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I would suggest Armscor 36 gr CPHP (1247 fps) as it produced around 2" groups with my GSG 1911 and you can buy for as low as $16.49/500 shipped - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...15-20-500-shipped.853059/page-3#post-11359991

And if you want greater accuracy, Aguila 38 gr CPHP (1280 fps) for $18.49/500 shipped.

LiveLife said:

I would suggest Armscor 36 gr CPHP (1247 fps) as it produced around 2" groups with my GSG 1911 and you can buy for as low as $16.49/500 shipped - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...15-20-500-shipped.853059/page-3#post-11359991

And if you want greater accuracy, Aguila 38 gr CPHP (1280 fps) for $18.49/500 shipped.

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That Aguila looks good, I'll have to try it. The more important thing is I'd want a hollow point that works from a rifle and the Winchester ammo does that. I'm sure the Aguila does too.

In post #34, "LiveLife" mentioned Eley. To the best of my knowledge I have never had a misfire with even the cheapest (ha!) grade of Eley, and the smell alone is worth the cost as far as I am concerned!

I once told a Remington exec (they have a plant here in Arkansas) that my experience with Remington rimfire ammo has caused me to swear off ALL Remington products. He said their centerfire ammo is first class, and I told him that a thousand dollars for an elk hunt is too much money to risk on ammo that may or may not go "bang" when I pull the trigger,

Typetwelve said:

I gave up on Winchester rimfire years ago. I never found it to be consistent or reliable. The xpert and the super X have both proven to be absolute junk.

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Likewise, I stopped buying Winchester ammo years ago, totally unreliable ammo and none of my firearms ever shot it well when you could get it to shoot. I'm strictly a CCI and Aguila ammo shooter only unless I buy target ammo.

Sad news for me At one time Winchester Copper Plated .22 LR was THE most reliable ammo for .22 LR pistols ! It was the ammo of choice for black ops in the 60s thru the 80s which is where my info into that subject ended.. In .22 Mag the Winchester Super X FMJ or HP was the best cycling ammo in my early AMT Automag 2 which was picky with most other brands. I will share tho that I am still working on huge stashes of .22 ammo that dates back up to 30 years. I try to shoot the oldest stuff up first and even the older stuff doesn't have the trouble related here. This is really sad for me to hear

Gordon said:

At one time Winchester Copper Plated .22 LR was THE most reliable ammo for .22 LR pistols!

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I wrote off Remington "Thunderduds" during the Great Shortage as it burned dirty, misfired and failed to reliably cycle the bolts of all 10/22s it was fired in with dismal accuracy.

I said "Never again" will I buy Thunderduds.

Then in recent years, THR members started posting good accuracy and reliability of Thunderbolts ... I guess it resurrected from the ashes like the Thunderbird.

So I bought a box to try for my "real world ... 10/22" thread and oh my, it not only produced some of smallest groups, it also shot reliably cycling 10/22 without any misfires.

I guess things change.

I don't disagree with the statements about current production 22 LR ammo. Between late 2004 to early 2005, I stockpiled about 4 cases of 22 LR ammo while shopping at Wal Mart. I bought bricks of CCI, Federal, Remington, and Winchester, including plated bullets, premium bullets, and the "Junk" stuff that causes many problems today.

I have recently bought current production ammo at the Wal Mart clearance sales because prices were low. My firearms include S&W revolvers and M41 pistols, Ruger Mk II pistols, Kimber 22 LR conversion kits, S&W Walther P22, Sig 1911-22, Mossberg 1950 rifles, and a custom Ruger 10-22.

Federal 36 grain HP ammo does not feed in any semi-auto firearm I own, but is reasonably accurate in Mossberg bolt rifles and S&W revolvers. I have not had any problems with 2004 - 2005 ammo firing or chambering, especially the brands that generate a lot of complaints today. My S&W M17 and M617 revolvers had "tight" chambers, but have been finish reamed to eliminate this problem.

Current production ammo by Federal, Remington, and Winchester, in my experience, has all the problems identified in this thread. Quite simply, manufacturers don't make ammo like they used to 15+ years ago. Aguila ammo purchased in the last 2 years has easily chambered, accurate, and been bargain priced. For me the most accurate ammo is CCI Blazers. The Sig 1911-22 (after $225 in after market parts) is accurate only with Remington Standard velocity ammo bought a month ago.

jdavis123 said:

All Hi Standard pistol experts recommend shooting only standard velocity (1070 FPS) ammo to avoid this problem.

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JD, thank you. Yes, when wife and I received the two Hi Standards and the S&W 41 (wife's fave) from her father, they each already had many years of service. I learned then about the standard-load-only advice, and have never even bought any hot loads. Only standard loads for all three.
Good to note that caution here, in case other THR readers stumble across a Hi Standard.

Vern Humphrey said:

I once told a Remington exec (they have a plant here in Arkansas) that my experience with Remington rimfire ammo has caused me to swear off ALL Remington products. He said their centerfire ammo is first class,

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Vern,
Shortly after receiving the three .22LR target pistols, I learned that Remington .22 left the guns filthy and also had a high misfire rate. I swore them off and have not looked back. Telling a cousin in Arkansas, a veteran shooter, of that experience, he told me friends had seen the Arkansas plant operations. When running .22 they load the materials. throw the switch on the line, and turn off the lights, letting the line produce the ammunition on its own. He also will not use their .22LR. That said, I have not had problems with the occasional box of centerfire.
Interesting that the exec made no attempt to defend the quality of the Rem .22.