Bad weather and wood stocks?

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JeeperCreeper

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So I know the general consensus is for rain and bad weather is stainless/synthetic over blued/wood.

But here's my situation. I live in Alaska. I like wood and blued steel. Found a good deal on a Mossberg Patriot in .338... Has the features I want (irons, 22" barrel, weighs about 7lbs).

I can also get it in synthetic with a longer barrel. However, it doesn't feel as nice and might be too light to shoot accurately.

Has any one ever had serious issues with wood or laminate warping in bad conditions???
 
I once found a small 1/4" long crack in a wood stock right behind the trigger guard at sun rise while hunting in a light rain. By noon the crack was 1/8" wide and extended all the way the grip cap.

But a stock failure is still rare. The biggest problem is with the POI changing as conditions change and it doesn't have to rain for that to happen. For people who live and hunt in the same area where atmospheric conditions remain fairly stable this isn't as much of a problem. It is wet in Alaska pretty much all the time. A wood stocked rifle that stays in Alaska will fare a lot better than the one a hunter from Arizona brings to Alaska.

I live in GA and have made a couple of trips to Colorado to hunt. In October I'll leave 500' elevation, 80 degree temps, and about 80% humidity. Two days later when I pull my rifle out of the case at 11,000' elevation, 25 degree temps, and about 15% humidity the chances are good that a wood stocked rifle will not impact at the same spot that it did when I left GA. My synthetic stocked rifles will. I've zeroed wood stocked rifles in August and had the POI change by 2" by December while they were sitting in the safe.

I read an article written by a Vietnam era sniper who commented that during the rainy season their wood stocked rifles weren't effective beyond more than about 40 yards because the wood swelled up so much, but that is an extreme condition most hunters won't see. When they changed to McMillans it made a huge difference.

This isn't new. But when a 2 MOA rifle was considered great a 2" change in POI wasn't nearly as noticeable. We expect more of rifles today.
 
What jmr40 said................ For stock stability my new favorite is a decent synthetic stock that incorporates a nearly full length aluminum bedding block. Got one a few years ago for my sporterized Swedish Mauser and another one last year on a 257 Weatherby Vanguard. They are both Bell & Carlsons. I'm one of their satisfied repeat customers. Although any properly designed bedding system combined with a synthetic stock pretty much eliminates all those moisture and temperature extremes issues. I love wood & blued steel too, but when the weather is nasty that stuff usually gets left in the safe
 
So I know the general consensus is for rain and bad weather is stainless/synthetic over blued/wood.

But here's my situation. I live in Alaska. I like wood and blued steel. Found a good deal on a Mossberg Patriot in .338... Has the features I want (irons, 22" barrel, weighs about 7lbs).

I can also get it in synthetic with a longer barrel. However, it doesn't feel as nice and might be too light to shoot accurately.

Has any one ever had serious issues with wood or laminate warping in bad conditions???
I can't speak to laminates, but Johnson's Paste Wax is your friend for wood stocks. Put a good coating on the inside, and even rub down the metal with it.
 
I have built a lot of wood stuff that has lasted decades outdoors year round. It can be done.

Some “space aged polymers”/plastics/composites are really good, some won’t last as long as a good piece of wood.
 
When waxing a wood stock, remove everything that isn’t wood before sealing the wood. You want to seal all of the wood, under the buttplate, guard, barrel, action, swivel mounts, everything. A good waterproof finish slathered on all the “under wood” is also a help.

Kevin
 
Seal all the end-grain and saturate the wood stock with an oil. I like BLO. Do 5+ coats. Let it dry and harden, then wax it with several coats of Johnsons paste wax. For the metal work, I coat it all with a good gun oil like G96, let it dry. Then wax over top. A blend of modern and traditional gun care :)

I've slowly been selling off my synthetic stocked firearms. Sure wood takes more TLC, but once you master the maintenance and oiling/touching up stocks, they look pretty and are pretty weatherproof.
 
I've always wiped the stock down with a few drops of hopps #9 after cleaning, i hunt in rain, snow and never had a problem yet

should I be doing more to protect my wood stocks?

never heard of using a wax before, will definatley look into it

THANKS
 
I hunted deer with the same 700 BDL for years. It has spent many hours in pouring rain. I never did anything but wipe the metal down with oil when coming in and letting the gun air dry. Never had a problem with the stock or the metal.
 
The larger the piece of wood, the more potential movement there is.

In other words, rifles with “large” stocks have the potential to move more. Large can mean long. What I am implying is that one piece stock rifles such as bolt actions will have greater tendency to warp and otherwise move as conditions change.

Two piece stocked rifles have two much smaller sized chunks of wood on them that will in turn move less and perhaps much more importantly, independent of each other.

Pressure or tension that starts in the butt end of a one piece stock can have effects on the action and barrel and every other portion of the gun it is near.

All this is going to of course be microscopic but I thought I would bring it up as one of the few theoretical disadvantages pertaining to bolt action rifle accuracy. Free floating really helps.
 
Many years ago the stock on 700 BDL barrel channel swelled putting pressure on the side of the barrel. I free floated the barrel and glass bedded the receiver. After floating the barrel I coated the barrel channel with several coats polyurethane. This process made the rifle shoot great!!!
 
Laminate wood is very stable. I have to believe they use water resistant glues, because this is an out door application. After glass bedding I liberally coat the insides of the stock with urethane varnish, which is an effective water resistant coating. Sunlight will eat up urethane varnish, so don't leave your rifle out on the lawn for months.

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Because laminated stocks are heavier than wood, and stronger, I installed one on this 35 Whelen.

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wcaa970.jpg

the pictures were before I took the belt grinder out of the attic and tapered the rosewood front tip and coated the whole stock in urethane varnish. I prefer a rough texture to the pistol grip and foreend so this stock, with its urethane finish is not glossy or pretty at all. The only part I smoothed down was the cheekpiece and behind and around the cheek piece.

The best service rifle shooter I ever knew was Quin Moore of Alabama. He would have won the Civilian Service Rifle Championship at Camp Perry if Daniel Abbott had not cheated him out of it. She was a junior from Phoenix AZ, and carried additional score cards which after every stage, she filled out a match winning score and turned them in. Anyway, Quin was absolutely unromantic about rifle appearance. They were tools to him, and once when someone commented on Quin taking a wood rasp to a M1a stock, Quin retorted "Do you want to shoot your rifle or make love to it?". I decided that I would rather shoot my rifles, so laminated wood, which is not as pretty as a high figured wood, but very practical, is an excellent choice in my opinion.

I have not tested this, but I do think that if you create a thick enough bedding, lets say the action is floating in a bedding which every section is 1/4 of an inch or more thick, and the fore end is relived enough so there is plenty clearance between the barrel and channel, even if there is wood warpage, it should not move the action or make the barrel touch the channel. Regardless on all plain wood stocked rifles, I coat the bare wood with urethane to make it as water proof as possible.

Prior to WW2 "the finish" was the linseed oil finish. Wood finished with linseed oil absorb water, I read an article which showed how much water got into the wood. It takes twenty years for linseed to turn a beautiful red brown color in walnut, I think the stuff oxidizes, but I doubt it makes the stock waterproof.

Previous practice, lets say pre WW2 and into the 1960's, stocks were inletted such that the barrel made full contact with the fore end. In these pictures, the pre 64 stock channels have been increased so there is clearance between the barrel and channel, but as they came from the factory, you could not slide a dollar bill between the barrel and channel.


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You can see the inletted area on the right for the rear sight and barrel screw.

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I removed this screw, located under the rear sight which went through the stock and held the barrel tightly to the fore end. I also increased the clearance between the barrel and this inletted area so the barrel is free floating. I consider full contact between the barrel channel and barrel to be madness and one of the worst possible ways to bed and action. Of course with the barrel screwed to the fore end and in full contact with the fore end wood, any dimensional changes to the stock are going to warp the barrel.

The magic marker dashes on the blue tape is where a piece of paper stopped sliding between the barrel and stock when the action was installed. I would mark that spot and remove a tiny amount of wood with my stock inletting tools, (round scrapers) reinstall the action, and see if I created enough clearance. This takes hours.
 
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So I know the general consensus is for rain and bad weather is stainless/synthetic over blued/wood.

But here's my situation. I live in Alaska. I like wood and blued steel. Found a good deal on a Mossberg Patriot in .338... Has the features I want (irons, 22" barrel, weighs about 7lbs).

I can also get it in synthetic with a longer barrel. However, it doesn't feel as nice and might be too light to shoot accurately.

Has any one ever had serious issues with wood or laminate warping in bad conditions???
Living in Hawaii everything gets wet, everything has to deal with humidity, and ANY steel rusts.
Personally I've had no issues with wood stocks, tho I also don't deal with cold much below 50 degrees mostly.
With bluing I just assume it's going to get ruined over time, it's also not horribly expensive to get redone, just don't let rust pits form.

What I do to provide some resistance for my stocks is keep the stock well oiled, and brush some oil into any checkering, or open surfaces. I'll also usually use west systems 105 or Gflex to seal the barrel channel and anywhere in the action inlet that isn't covered by bedding.

On the barreled action I coat the undersides and anywhere not touched or moving with a heavy duty rust preventative, and keep the rest oiled with clp.

I've found a coat of wd-40 specialist rust preventative has basically made it unnecessary to remove my action from stocks after a rain storm. just wipe what I can see let it dry and reoil the parts I touch.
 
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I've never had one fail and here in N.Y. The weather can be very different even day to day. All my wood stocks I have used blo in the inside and out unless it's got a different Finnish. Like others I like the fibreglass/carbon with aluminum in them.
 
I used a Ruger 77 270 for over 20 years from the Ozarks to the Rockies. Saw all kinds of weather from 80 degrees and sunny to -15 with 12" of snow on the ground. Never had a problem. When I first bought the rifle I took the stock off, glassed the action area, floated the barrel and sealed barrel channel with lacquer. If I got into a soaking rain I would pull the stock off and wipe the metal down. By keeping the outside of the stock waxed and wiping the metal the gun was in great condition when I retired it.
 
Has any one ever had serious issues with wood or laminate warping in bad conditions???

Long before I ever saw or had a stainless rifle in a synthetic stock I hunted Upstate NY and West Virginia in rain, snow and all sorts of lousy weather. Pretty sure I am not alone in that. Following exposure to harsh elements I cleaned my rifles and used a little paste wax in barrel channels. All I ever cared about was making sure I removed all the moisture and foreign debris. That's about it. I am pretty sure you are not alone in Alaska where the elements can be pretty harsh. I would ask others how they maintain blued steel in wood rifles. Good rifles are built for adverse conditions needing only regular good maintenance.

Ron
 
Hunting the coast range in Oregon has demonstrated that not all steels possess the same tolerance for corrosion. My Sako AV has been solid without showing any signs of rust with regular maintenance while the steel Leupold rings mounted on the same rifle rusted up in a weekend. My brother found that a 4 day elk season corroded the action screws of his CZ 550 and other areas in contact with the wood stock. Pragmatism has led each of us to stainless/synthetic rifles but it’s been proven with some additional TLC that it’s quite possible to keep a blued rifle with greater corrosion resistance in good shape. (Although there are a few rifles around here that will turn your hand orange if you grab the steel parts.) Can’t speak for the inherent rust resistance of a new Mossburg but perhaps others could share their experiences?
 
I would say they would really be doing a disservice to their customers by not using some sort of marine epoxy. That’s is what I would use.
This would be the best way to seal the wood. I learned the hard way though Marine Epoxy will crack and peel if not covered with Spar Varnish, as it has no UV resistance on its own.
 
FWIW, long ago I recall reading somewhere that the use of PEG (polyethylene glycol) to stabilize green wood originated with Swedish experiments to stabilize wooden military rifle stock forends.

I can't find a solid reference to back up this memory, but the Swedes did make significant use of PEG in the early 60s to preserve the raised wooden warship Vasa.
 
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