Supporting LGS with Range

I've done that before to help out my LGS but I'm not rich enough to buy their ammo for very long. I've bought several guns at $30 over what I could find online just because they had them in stock. I agree we should help our LGS as much as we can since they're always under pressure from somewhere.

I or rather we are supporting a small LGS owned by a young couple. Their prices are usually msrp but they only charge $15.00 for transfers.

I try to do all my business with LGS my trouble is there are about 10 of them close by and I like most of them.

I'd figure paying $20 for a lane is a much larger money maker than buying a box of ammo. I've bought .22lr at the local range but can make my own, at home, for a fraction of the price of what they sell for.

Well you’re a nice man then aren’t you?

I try to throw money at my LGSs also. It’s good to support them.

Yep, I've done the same with a couple non-franchised indoor ranges I go to.

One of them I've always made a point to buy some ammo when using their range.

The other, I've bought two firearms from them in the last few years and have also taken a class from them.

reddog81 said:

I'd figure paying $20 for a lane is a much larger money maker than buying a box of ammo. I've bought .22lr at the local range but can make my own, at home, for a fraction of the price of what they sell for.

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That makes sense. The markup on ammo is probably a small percentage, but range fee is 100% towards the bottom line.

I am a member at the local range. I have bought a pistol there and am having a bit of gunsmithing done. I try hard to give them business and their prices are generally reasonable. They specialize in custom cerakoting, so I might have them coat my beater cz82 that has a completely gone finish.

Speedo66 said:

That makes sense. The markup on ammo is probably a small percentage, but range fee is 100% towards the bottom line.

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I guess some shooting range LGS take advantage of newbies and the unknowing. The one near me wanted $24 and change for a box of Blazer Brass 45ACP. Just about double what I pay from SGammo. And if you rent a gun from them, you have to buy their ammo, which is an acceptable policy but the cost is silly.

Hi...
I buy the vast majority of my firearms and reloading components from local gun shops.
I will not pay their exorbitant fees to use their indoor ranges. I don't like their policy that dictates that you must buy their ammo to shoot on their range and you can't keep the brass you paid for. I know of at least four in my area that have this policy.
I will continue to shoot my reloads outdoors and pick up my brass that I paid for.
I belong to two gun clubs, one of which has an indoor range for rimfire rifle use only. I have never used it in 35+ years.

Yep, no range here but bought a pair of BUDs shorts, they carry a good line of gun related clothing. Didn’t really need new shorts but figured I could help and they sure are a cut above Walmart’s standard Wranglers.

The one LGS that I support has a range and agree that range time is almost pure profit for them and probably keeps them in business. Every time I go I always buy their targets. Being across state lines I will not be buying any handguns from them.

Also there was a new shop that opened in my small town a few years ago and they only lasted a couple years. Probably would have been different if they would have also had a range to help offset expenses. Being only 10 minutes away I'd have been a regular!

Where I used to live my favorite LGS had a nice little 15 yard range. I bought lots of guns and ammo from these guys as well as frequenting their range on rainy days.

Where I live now there are no close LGS with their own shooting range. I belong to a local indoor range and definitely get my money’s worth from my membership so I will purchase my targets from them and sometimes other things that help keep them afloat. Their membership fees are so low I almost feel guilty bringing my own targets.

When I'm in the market for a firearm, I stop by my LGS and ask him for his best price. In three attempts, he's not been able to come within $90 of the best online price including shipping. I don't mind say a $40 or $50 difference, but nearly $100 I won't do. All he gets is the transfer fee. I'll keep trying...

Thank you!

Speedo66 said:

That makes sense. The markup on ammo is probably a small percentage, but range fee is 100% towards the bottom line.

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Don't forget, a chunk of that $20 per lane has to go towards rent or mortgage on the extra space the range uses, utilities, maintenance, and paying for the RSO if they have one. The profit off that range fee might not be that much more than the profit on a box of ammo in hte end.

I’m very much in favor of ‘buying local’ as the catchphrase has it. I tend to patronize a particular LGS with indoor range, and try to buy what I need through them as long as price relative to online/other sources isn’t too great—whatever that seems to me at the time. Example: About $25 extra for small pistol safe—yep. About $60 extra for tac light for my Glock G20? Nope. I don’t reload, so I’m paying someone retail for ammo, and in most cases it’s this shop; their prices are a bit high, but not horribly so—about 5-10% higher than Cabelas/BassPro. Factor in time, gas, etc., and it’s close to a wash, I figure.

Reminder about profit from range fees: Building, maintaining, and staffing an indoor range is not a cheap endeavor. So no, range fees are not “pure profit”. What the actual margin is over the range-associated costs, I dunno, but it’s certainly not nothing but profit.

I benefit greatly from having a good indoor range within easy distance, and am more than willing to pay my fair share to contribute to their continued existence, maintenance, etc. If it means I get to buy a bit less of things made in overseas sweat shops, well, that’s an easy sacrifice to make, AFAIAC.

mdauben said:

Don't forget, a chunk of that $20 per lane has to go towards rent or mortgage on the extra space the range uses, utilities, maintenance, and paying for the RSO if they have one. The profit off that range fee might not be that much more than the profit on a box of ammo in hte end.

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Unless I'm seeing this wrong, that's $20 going towards those things as opposed to maybe $5 off a $20 box of ammo.

Paco42 said:

Reminder about profit from range fees: Building, maintaining, and staffing an indoor range is not a cheap endeavor. So no, range fees are not “pure profit”. What the actual margin is over the range-associated costs, I dunno, but it’s certainly not nothing but profit.

I benefit greatly from having a good indoor range within easy distance, and am more than willing to pay my fair share to contribute to their continued existence, maintenance, etc. .

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As stated in my post at #13, there was a new shop set up in my small town a few years ago. About the time of the big push for CCW. They offered classes and such but didn't have a range to augment the business. There gun prices were fair as were their general prices, their classes at first were always packed until demand was meet. They lasted just about 4 years. Biggest problem was, No Range, Nothing to draw people to the store when they didn't need another gun or training. So they went under. A business needs people coming thru the doors. They need a reason to be there.

The business expenses are going to be there whether you have foot traffic or not. Still have to have the lights on, heat on in winter and air on in summer. Still need to have staff on duty whether there are people in the store or not unless you are operating on an appointment basis. Still got to pay the rent/mortgage whether you sold one item or 1k items.

Kind of like your corner bar. The beer coolers need to be running whether there are 2 people sitting at the bar or if there are 50 people. The cost of running those coolers doesn't change by the number of patrons you have. Same as that bar, if you have an unused corner and put in a pool table that generates profit. A couple dinning tables in that same space isn't going to generate the same profit.

So if I were to have a gun shop I would rather Have a range than Not have a Range. The Range is going to draw people. People create sales.

@kmw1954–I’m not entirely sure what your point is, with regards to my statement, anyway. I didn’t make any claims about whether a range might draw more customers or whatever. I said that building and operating a range is a costly thing to do, and justify—require might be a better word—a customer usage charge. Business expenses of a shop without a range are not the same as business expenses of a shop with a range. An indoor range is a very expensive proposition (a) to build (walls, backstops, ventilation, and more are a much different ball game for a range than for, say, a storeroom, a break room, or whatever—and qualified contractors are necessary and more costly), (b) maintain (ventilation filtration, maintenance, and in some cases periodic certification—just cleaning up the down-range area has special OSHA rules re: contact exposure to lead and other contaminants), (c) insure (yeah, insuring a gun shop is expensive, but add a range, and the insurance premiums go up more than just a wee bit), (d) staff (not just any Joe, Josephine, Jack or Julie can staff a range—one needs qualified personnel, and that, too, adds to expenses), and more.

WADR, I don’t see the addition of an indoor gun range as being at all comparable to adding a pool table in a bar. And a gun shop owner can’t just put a range in an “unused corner”. Yeah, both might draw more people, etc., but the costs of one—initial and ongoing—far exceed the other. Thus, my statement that range fees aren’t “pure profit”. And I stand by my comment.

Paco42 said:

I said that building and operating a range is a costly thing to do, and justify—require might be a better word—a customer usage charge. Business expenses of a shop without a range are not the same as business expenses of a shop with a range. An indoor range is a very expensive proposition (a) to build (walls, backstops, ventilation, and more are a much different ball game for a range than for, say, a storeroom, a break room, or whatever—and qualified contractors are necessary and more costly), (b) maintain (ventilation filtration, maintenance, and in some cases periodic certification—just cleaning up the down-range area has special OSHA rules re: contact exposure to lead and other contaminants), (c) insure (yeah, insuring a gun shop is expensive, but add a range, and the insurance premiums go up more than just a wee bit), (d) staff (not just any Joe, Josephine, Jack or Julie can staff a range—one needs qualified personnel, and that, too, adds to expenses), and more.

Thus, my statement that range fees aren’t “pure profit”. And I stand by my comment.

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My whole point as you missed it or I didn't clarify properly is that all businesses have "Costs", "Fixed Costs" regardless of what the business is. Will admit my comparison with a bar was a stretch but the point still remains the same. Long ago I had a business and in that business I had a Soda machine that was owned by me, All profit from that machine went into my pocket. The cost of running that machine was minimal when added into the cost of all the other electrical devises that had to be left on. So no it was not "Pure Profit" but was dang near it.

Now it appears that part of your argument revolves around starting or building a new shop with a range. Which without a doubt will cost more in today's world to build than one built 50 years ago, which is the case of the one I patronize. Yes there are locally 2 newer shops in this area and by new I mean New State of the Art Ranges, One was built in an older building that at one time was a grocery store built back in 1960 and is located in the middle of town. The other us built about 8 years ago from the ground up on vacant land and consists of two ranges, one of which is a 100yd range capable of handling up to just below 50BMG. The business purpose when built was to be a range location. It is in the middle of an industrial complex. From the exterior it looks more like a factory than a store. Anyways all three of these businesses are similar in their purpose I am certain have very different operating costs.

I will agree that in business there is no such thing as "Pure Profit" unless you are doing something illegal, even then I have doubts.

As a final comparison I will state it this way, the small shop with the range I visit probably has a much higher profit margin than the other two and the other one probably has a higher profit margin than the very large range. Also the small shop that I visit probably wouldn't survive w/o the range. In any event in today's world and political climate I would not want to be in that business, especially because all three shops/ranges are in Illinois.

Directed at the OP since we live in the same state, the only LGS with a range I know of is Green Top and that's been a recent endeavor for them.

That being said, I have frequented that range long before GT took over and I occasionally continue to do so.

Living in Gods country allows me the benefit of shooting at home so I dont frequent it as much as I did when I lived suburban.

When I do stop by I certainly dont buy ammo and bring all necessary targets so the range fee is what I or we pay. I figure that is helping enough. I stock enough ammo between practice at home, comps and just having some on hand that I'm not about to buy any from the range.

I also spend quite a bit in their actual store between guns, mags, ect.

I support where I can but I'm not going to just throw money away.

@kmw1954–Thank you for your efforts at clarifying. I’m well aware that all businesses have costs, of various sorts. Perhaps our perceptions of what costs are minimal v. significant are somewhat different. What I can say is that in speaking with owners of various shops and ranges over the years, I’ve come to learn that the costs of a range, both the large initial cost usually amortized over many years, and the ongoing costs (at least of a properly run, safe for all range) are both deemed “significant” by the owners. Maybe I’ll just let it all rest there.

Paco42, I think you're on to something. I take it from the vantage point of observing the markets. I am right on the Illinois/Wisconsin border were the local and state laws/regulations vary greatly. For me the closest indoor range is in Illinois and has been there since 1970. It has been thru a number of owners during that time. The current owner just bought this shop about 3 years ago. At the time the owner was tired and looking to retire. He was ready to just close up, already had the posting out with a date. I and a few others thought for sure that we had lost our favorite range. Then magically one morning there was a big new page on their website. Under New Ownership! This was just a week before it was set to close.

As I stated previously there is another range about 1/2 mi away and it is very nice with all the new gadgets and a huge showroom. I just never felt comfortable or welcomed there. The other very large range is about another 10 miles away and even though it too is state of the art and relatively new, less than 8 years old, it too has already changed owners.

From there the next closest ranges are 30/32 mi. away also in Illinois and the closest indoor range here in Wisconsin is almost 40mi away. These places are successful and busy and all have one thing in common. An indoor range. Over the years there have been a number of small shops open and none have been able to sustain themselves. Which makes my standpoint that if a gun shop at least in the general area is going to succeed then they had better have a range, regardless of the profit margin.