1911 recomendation and experiences

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This thread has fired my curiosity. I have a Colt National Match (not sure what year it was made) that I use for target shooting (bullseye, etc.) and I thought I had an excellent gun. What differences would I notice if I were shooting a modern high priced 1911's instead a my vintage Colt NM?
Regarding the OP question; He says he wants another 1911 for CC/SD. Is it really necessary for him to spend the extra cash for a highly tuned, 2" group at 50-yards 1911? Wouldn't a fixed sighted, basic model 1911 be better suited for CC/SD?
 
Ks5shooter said:
CC/SD yes but also some organized shoots at local ranges. So want something tuned pretty well.
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Most better quality production 1911s will shoot as accurately as you can hold. The main thing is to get sights that work for you. It is not necessary to get a "semi-custom" gun, or even to run a good base gun through a custom shop to tune it up. Seriously.

With that said... I personally would totally ENJOY a semi-custom or custom 1911 to no end! It's just not necessary and I certainly would not use one for carry. Too many really good, less expensive options for that need.
 
I have a few CC firearms already but in winter Id carry it now and then just because.I seem to be narrowed down to two pictured below.Not in stone as Im in no hurry and am opened to more ideas. But this would be a baseline.
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WVsig said:
Honestly if you have to ask that question you will not understand the answer. What is it that this car can do?

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That this can't....

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They are both very fast mid engine sports cars. Both are red. One however is a bespoke hand built piece of Italian art the other is a Corvette. LOL

One is a production car built on a factory assembly line the other is made by artisans.There is just something different about the 2 although they basically do the same thing. One will cost you about $100,000 the other will cost you close to $1 Million. Some people are willing to pay the difference. Others won't. Neither one is wrong. Both will get you arrested for driving even close to what they are capable of but one is special. One is unique. One is not.

When you get to a certain price point when it comes to anything including 1911s you are not just paying for function. You are not just paying for it to do the basics. You are asking it to do more than that and do it with some flair, refinement and some style. Now we can go back and forth all day long as to the value of these differences. We can talk about the point of diminishing returns. We can compare stats, targets, trigger pull weights etc... but what it really comes down to is what do you want out of your pistol. For me a $350 Turkish clone of the 1911A1 does not do it for me. I have stock 1911A1 model pistols. I enjoy them but if am looking for pure enjoyment that is not the one I reach for.

This one is. The reason I reach for this one is because it is a bespoke pistol built for me. It has everything I wanted on it and nothing I didn't. It was perfectly executed by a master craftsman, Don Williams, and it is a one of a kind. There is not another one exactly like it. It was what I pictured in my mind and Colt + Don + Me made it. It brings a smile to my face everytime I shoot it and I shoot it a lot. It makes me happy to hold it and run it hard. For me that Turkish clone is a soulless machine and a simple tool. It is not a source of enjoyment. It does not make it bad it just makes it what it is. For me the money spent on the Colt below was money well spent.

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So who NEEDS a car like this when the speed limits are what they are and the traffic is what it is???? Answer, no one! If the very rich and WANT one it is their right to have one. The same can be said about the question I ask you. If a person has the $$$$ to buy a 2 to 4K 1911 becasue they WANT one so be it, but they will not be any better of in 'heavy traffic' ( a real world shoot out) than I will be with my mil spec 1911. I have been teach Basic Armed Self defense (civilian) for 30+ years and I stress this. If you want a high $$ gun that is your right, but you would MUCH better off with SEVERAL less $$$ guns in the house than ONE HIGH $$$$ GUN. Not to mention, the gun is now a 'tool' which can be lost, stolen, damaged, and GOD FORBID end up in 'evidence' of ever. I am speaking SELF DEFENSE here, not match/sporting use, race gun have their place, but not in SD. Just common sense to those of us who have spent most of our live in the REAL world, the mud, the blood, and the beer!!!;)
 
94045 said:
$350 in 1965 = $2867 in 2020

Just thought we should be on the same page.
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I am talking NEED not $$$$. My mil spec 1911A1 sells for about $350 TODAY, and in a REAL WORLD shoot out will be as good a job as the high $$$$ 1911's will, today or in the past.;)
 
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Kevin Rohrer said:
Depends on what make you bought. I know of one lower-end make (name withheld so as to not start a war) that is made w/ such soft steel that bearing surfaces start to wear after 500-rounds. I also know of makes where bearing surfaces are not cut correctly, leading to early wear and malfunction.

You get what you pay for. For $350, you may get a gun with a trigger that moves in three dimensions rather than one, poorly cut bearing surfaces, soft steel, improper machining, a misshapen feed ramp, low-quality mags, sloppy slides, loose barrel/bushing, etc. $2, 3, and 4k guns do not normally have these "features", and come w/ lifetime warranties to correct the rare problem.
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That has not been my experience, not to mention if I did get one that needed some improvements I enjoys making them. ;) The specific gun I just bought ($308) is very tight, good trigger, VERY accurate (more so than several other that cost 3 to 4 times this one), utterly reliable, like ALL PROPERLY BUILT 1911's. To each his owen, if you have a lot of $$$ it is your right to buy any one you want, but where the metal meets the meat your high $$$ 1911 will not fair any better than my mil spec 1911!!!;)
 
STI has also a ton of different nice 1911 or even 2011 in pretty much every caliber at various price range.
 
Olympus said:
They all go bang, even Hi Point. You’re paying for varying levels of craftsmanship and features. It’s like anything, there comes a point where you reach a level of diminishing returns.
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Thank you, you are using one of my favorite terms 'the point of demising returns'. I usually use it in terminal ballistic conversations, but it hold true here, the basic mil spec 1911A1 will preform as will as the 3-4 K gun in a real world shoot out! :)
 
Jim Rau said:
So who NEEDS a car like this when the speed limits are what they are and the traffic is what it is???? Answer, no one! If the very rich and WANT one it is their right to have one. The same can be said about the question I ask you. If a person has the $$$$ to buy a 2 to 4K 1911 becasue they WANT one so be it, but they will not be any better of in 'heavy traffic' ( a real world shoot out) than I will be with my mil spec 1911. I have been teach Basic Armed Self defense (civilian) for 30+ years and I stress this. If you want a high $$ gun that is your right, but you would MUCH better off with SEVERAL less $$$ guns in the house than ONE HIGH $$$$ GUN. Not to mention, the gun is now a 'tool' which can be lost, stolen, damaged, and GOD FORBID end up in 'evidence' of ever. I am speaking SELF DEFENSE here, not match/sporting use, race gun have their place, but not in SD. Just common sense to those of us who have spent most of our live in the REAL world, the mud, the blood, and the beer!!!;)
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Time to deploy the old ignore function of the forum.... LMAO
 
WVsig said:
Time to deploy the old ignore function of the forum.... LMAO
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That is a great function for those who can't handle the truth or are afraid of the truth. I refuse to ignore anything any one has to say, but I have an open mind, which is very hard to find in this world today. Have a nice day.:)
I guess your sig line is simply for show, not practice.;)
 
drband said:
I would say that a well-executed 1911 in 9mm is a fine, reliable gun. There are plenty of .45acp 1911s that have issues, just judging from posts on THR (my observation). 9mm is a fine cartridge for a 1911.
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In general the 1911 in 9mm is harder to execute properly. Here is a quote from 1911tuner AKA John Travis on the subject. He knows his 1911s more than most of us. I don't agree with him on a lot of other subjects but I tend to agree with him on this one. I own 2 1911s in 9mm currently that are good to go but I have cycled through others that never ran right. I know many dedicated 1911 shooter who can get them to run right for them. The window for 100% proper function is smaller in the 9mm caliber 1911 than any other. Now when they run right they are one of the softest shooting most enjoyable guns on the planet but they would not be my first choice for a defensive handgun. This is worth reading.

There are reasons that the 9mm cartridge is just wrong for the 1911 platform...the very reasons that I never owned one and never will.

The OAL is too short and the tiny rim and extractor groove require heavy modification to an extractor that was designed to work with the .45 Auto's case dimensions.

Because of the extractor groove, the tip of the extractor claw is used to place tension on the case in the bottom of the extractor groove instead of the tensioning wall bearing against the rim. A little too much tension, and you get feed problems. Back off enough for reliable feed/return to bettery, and you run into extraction and.or ejection problems. Take enough off the claw to bring the tensioning wall into contact with the rim, and it's too short to hang onto the case and bring it out of the chamber. One of the tricky things about running a cartridge with the pressure levels of the 9mm is that the extractor has to work harder to pull it clear. Add to that a very short claw, and it gets tricky.

Finally...even with a light recoil spring...the 115 grain ammunition barely generates enough recoil impetus to drive the slide and barrel backward with authority. The 124 grain stuff is better. The 147 grain offering is better still.

That delicate balance, coupled with the too short OAL is, while a 1911 may be okay for a range toy...if you get one that runs...I'd never recommend carrying one for serious purpose. They can be made to run...if the wrench understands what he's doing and why...but it tries one's patience, and patience is something that I've run short of in my old age.

5-SHOTS said:
STI has also a ton of different nice 1911 or even 2011 in pretty much every caliber at various price range.
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STI is in a state of flux right now. The are moving from being STI to Staccato. https://stiguns.com/2020-product-lineup/
 
Jim Rau said:
So who NEEDS a car like this when the speed limits are what they are and the traffic is what it is???? Answer, no one! If the very rich and WANT one it is their right to have one. The same can be said about the question I ask you. If a person has the $$$$ to buy a 2 to 4K 1911 becasue they WANT one so be it, but they will not be any better of in 'heavy traffic' ( a real world shoot out) than I will be with my mil spec 1911. I have been teach Basic Armed Self defense (civilian) for 30+ years and I stress this. If you want a high $$ gun that is your right, but you would MUCH better off with SEVERAL less $$$ guns in the house than ONE HIGH $$$$ GUN. Not to mention, the gun is now a 'tool' which can be lost, stolen, damaged, and GOD FORBID end up in 'evidence' of ever. I am speaking SELF DEFENSE here, not match/sporting use, race gun have their place, but not in SD. Just common sense to those of us who have spent most of our live in the REAL world, the mud, the blood, and the beer!!!;)
Click to expand...

I would much rather have 1 1911 that cost 4k than 10 janky 400$ 1911s.
 
If you want a nice high end 1911, take a subjective approach. Look at a number of them and buy the one that really speaks to you. You will know it when you find the right one.
 
Jim Rau said:
If you want a high $$ gun that is your right, but you would MUCH better off with SEVERAL less $$$ guns in the house than ONE HIGH $$$$ GUN. Not to mention, the gun is now a 'tool' which can be lost, stolen, damaged, and GOD FORBID end up in 'evidence' of ever. I am speaking SELF DEFENSE here, not match/sporting use, race gun have their place, but not in SD. Just common sense to those of us who have spent most of our live in the REAL world, the mud, the blood, and the beer!!!
Click to expand...

How do you know we do not own dozens and dozens of lesser guns too?

As long as I am above ground, and one of my high end guns was taken as evidence. It was worth every penny spent. Same goes for any lesser gun I choose to carry. Stolen? sure I would be pissed even if it was one of my lowly Glocks. Lost is pretty much out of the picture. While I have lost pocket knives that cost more than a lot of guns I do not see myself ever misplacing a firearm...

I live in the real world too, but I'd be willing to bet my beer choice is better than yours... :)
 
@Jim Rau After a certain point one does need to entertain thoughts that have no merit. Clearly you don't actually understand the quote in my signature. I have entertained your opinion and clearly have not adopted it. Unlike you I do not consider my subjective preferences to be objective truths. You are certainly entitled to continue your championing of cheap Turkish 1911s but I am not sure you are going to convince people of your position. In the end I think you focused the quote in my signature. LMAO
 
WVsig said:
In general the 1911 in 9mm is harder to execute properly. Here is a quote from 1911tuner AKA John Travis on the subject. He knows his 1911s more than most of us. I don't agree with him on a lot of other subjects but I tend to agree with him on this one. I own 2 1911s in 9mm currently that are good to go but I have cycled through others that never ran right. I know many dedicated 1911 shooter who can get them to run right for them. The window for 100% proper function is smaller in the 9mm caliber 1911 than any other. Now when they run right they are one of the softest shooting most enjoyable guns on the planet but they would not be my first choice for a defensive handgun. This is worth reading.

There are reasons that the 9mm cartridge is just wrong for the 1911 platform...the very reasons that I never owned one and never will.

The OAL is too short and the tiny rim and extractor groove require heavy modification to an extractor that was designed to work with the .45 Auto's case dimensions.

Because of the extractor groove, the tip of the extractor claw is used to place tension on the case in the bottom of the extractor groove instead of the tensioning wall bearing against the rim. A little too much tension, and you get feed problems. Back off enough for reliable feed/return to bettery, and you run into extraction and.or ejection problems. Take enough off the claw to bring the tensioning wall into contact with the rim, and it's too short to hang onto the case and bring it out of the chamber. One of the tricky things about running a cartridge with the pressure levels of the 9mm is that the extractor has to work harder to pull it clear. Add to that a very short claw, and it gets tricky.

Finally...even with a light recoil spring...the 115 grain ammunition barely generates enough recoil impetus to drive the slide and barrel backward with authority. The 124 grain stuff is better. The 147 grain offering is better still.

That delicate balance, coupled with the too short OAL is, while a 1911 may be okay for a range toy...if you get one that runs...I'd never recommend carrying one for serious purpose. They can be made to run...if the wrench understands what he's doing and why...but it tries one's patience, and patience is something that I've run short of in my old age.



STI is in a state of flux right now. The are moving from being STI to Staccato. https://stiguns.com/2020-product-lineup/
Click to expand...
Thanks for that quote from @1911Tuner! I have read many of his posts, but not nearly all of them. I find his reasoning solid. But I am mystified why my RIA .22TCM/9mm combo gun runs so well with the 9mm barrel and spring installed! Really. If RIA can execute a good 9mm 1911, there must be others in the non-premium realm that run like that, too. I am NOT arguing with the facts Tuner posted. I just feel lucky that my 9mm 1911 runs so well. At this stage (early in it's life) I have shot 1500-2000 rds through it-- all 124gr round nose, except a few Federal 124gr HSTs. Everything just runs. I can only report from my sample of one! It likes factory and my reloads. I guess I'll just count my blessings!

Tuner's post does give me pause about recommending 9mm 1911s, but only just a little.;)

@WVsig, do you know of other brands that have had problems with 1911s in 9mm?
 
drband said:
Thanks for that quote from @1911Tuner! I have read many of his posts, but not nearly all of them. I find his reasoning solid. But I am mystified why my RIA .22TCM/9mm combo gun runs so well with the 9mm barrel and spring installed! Really. If RIA can execute a good 9mm 1911, there must be others in the non-premium realm that run like that, too. I am NOT arguing with the facts Tuner posted. I just feel lucky that my 9mm 1911 runs so well. At this stage (early in it's life) I have shot 1500-2000 rds through it-- all 124gr round nose, except a few Federal 124gr HSTs. Everything just runs. I can only report from my sample of one! It likes factory and my reloads. I guess I'll just count my blessings!

Tuner's post does give me pause about recommending 9mm 1911s, but only just a little.;)

@WVsig, do you know of other brands that have had problems with 1911s in 9mm?
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RIA, Colt, Dan Wesson, S&W pretty much everyone who makes them. When you get one that runs it is great. I think the vast majority run well but when you get the dog with fleas there is almost no way to get rid of them. I know people who have them and are just resign to the fact they will never be 100% and use them as range toys vs defensive guns. I currently have a Dan Wesson Valykrie and a Guncrafter No Name and both run 100% but when I was looking for a 1911 in 9mm for carry I opted for a 1911 like gun not a 1911 but If am being honest I carry an alloy BHP/P35 most of the time.

bYwjyB9.jpg
 
WVsig said:
RIA, Colt, Dan Wesson, S&W pretty much everyone who makes them. When you get one that runs it is great. I think the vast majority run well but when you get the dog with fleas there is almost no way to get rid of them. I know people who have them and are just resign to the fact they will never be 100% and use them as range toys vs defensive guns. I currently have a Dan Wesson Valykrie and a Guncrafter No Name and both run 100% but when I was looking for a 1911 in 9mm for carry I opted for a 1911 like gun not a 1911 but If am being honest I carry an alloy BHP/P35 most of the time.

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Right... I guess one should be persistent if you get a lemon... pretty much like any gun.;)
 
drband said:
Right... I guess one should be persistent if you get a lemon... pretty much like any gun.;)
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My take away and personal experience is that the likely hood of getting a good 1911 in 45 ACP is higher than 9mm. I can't put a % on it but is it higher. That said remember what Ken Hackathorn says about 1911s.

-The 1911 chambered in 45 ACP is the Worlds Finest Close Quarters Sidearm and King of feedway stoppages. -KH
 
With all the input, and it is all good, I think we have to look at just what we are trying to accomplish with the gun. Competition, carry gun or just plinking.
For me, a reliable 9mm is my Glock. Although not my favorite handgun, it will go bang every time. But for competition, give me a tuned 1911 in 9mm.
 
Ks5shooter said:
In 9mm are heavier bullets best or will lighter bullets function well in a 1911. I have lots 115 grain bullets.
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Realize the 9mm 1911 slide weighs the same as the .45 Auto 1911 slide, which is generally not the case with other guns, such as Glock. The .45 Auto Glock is a completely different gun than the 9mm Glock, size-wise.

The typical 9mm 1911 will have a lighter recoil spring than the typical .45 Auto 1911 which will allow it to function with the lighter round. Generally speaking, the weaker the round, the lighter you need to go with the recoil spring.
 
WVsig said:
@Jim Rau After a certain point one does need to entertain thoughts that have no merit. Clearly you don't actually understand the quote in my signature. I have entertained your opinion and clearly have not adopted it. Unlike you I do not consider my subjective preferences to be objective truths. You are certainly entitled to continue your championing of cheap Turkish 1911s but I am not sure you are going to convince people of your position. In the end I think you focused the quote in my signature. LMAO
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I am not 'championing', any thing/gun. Just stating some FACTS.;) John Browning designed the 1911 and there were some mods to make the A1, and in it BASIC A1 FORM it will do as good in a real life shoot our as the 3-4K one will, just a FACT that has been proven thousands of times since it's birth.:) Like I said, this is AMERICA so it is your RIGHT to spend $$$$ as you wish, but it don't change the facts. The root word for 'ignorance' is 'ignore'!;) That is why I never ignore any one when they speak even if I disagree with them:).
 
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