.308 has a kick?

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In the same weight rifles 30-06 has 20-25% more recoil than 308. And the effects of recoil is between the ears as much as anything else. Many people will swear certain cartridges recoil less than others simply because of the name. I've seen numerous internet suggestions for someone to choose 30-06 over 7mm Rem mag because anything with "Magnum" in the name will tear your shoulder off. But in this case 30-06 and 7mm Rem mag have virtually the same recoil. A 270 will recoil more than 308, but a little less than 30-06. The 35 Whelen recoils more than 300 WM and you also see people recommend it over 300 magnum.

Recoil is also cumulative. I can go to the range and shoot a few rounds of almost anything with no issues. But even with 308 I reach a point where it isn't fun anymore. The 308 is my go-to cartridge, but there are other options. For one thing the 308 you shot was one of the lighter options. A heavier rifle would have made a big difference. My lightest 308 is a 5 lb Kimber. There is a big difference in recoil compared to my 8 lb Tikka CTR.

If you are not going to include elk the 7mm-08, 260, & 6.5 cm are fine choices.

Those choices are just fine for elk out past 400 yards. The only animal in North America I'd hesitate to hunt with those are the 1000+ lb brown bear in Alaska. And I'd still use one if it were the only rifle I had.

If you're limiting yourself to deer then look no farther than 243. If you want to hunt anything else in the lower 48 the 6.5 CM is the way to go. Recoil is between 308 and 243, but closer to 243. 7-08 is a fine cartridge, but the difference in both recoil and performance between 7-08 and 308 is indistinguishable. The 260, or for that matter 6.5X55 are good choice, but unless you already own one the 6.5 CM does everything a little better. And 6.5CM rifles and ammo are actually on shelves in stores. Going with either of the other 2 means and matching 6.5CM performance means building a custom rifle and hand loading out of spec ammo.
 
There is a whole bunch of good info to be distilled out of this. All I am doing here is laying it out in. No great revelations from me!

First 308 does have some recoil. 15 or more would be about my limit. Depending on several factors.

Heavier rifles kick less. Consider a heavier rifle especially if you are going short distances, or, are fit enough to carry it. A pound of weight makes a huge difference in how hard it comes back.

Stock fit is hugely important. Too long of a stock will really exacerbate recoil. If your cheek is getting slapped the comb may be too low, or, the scope mounted too high.

There are things to mitagate recoil. Different recoil pad on the rifle. Slip on pads . Which I don't like as they add length. And the best IMHO is the past recoil pad. Check out Caldwell lead sleds also.

Not a fan of muzzle brakes. They are horrible noise makers for the shooter and worse than that for bystanders.

Other calibers kick less. 6.5 Creedmoor is a significant reduction in recoil. 243 is about 25% less than a 308. Both will knock the stuffing out of any white tail or mule deer.

Last , but not least, you are not a wimp. My tolerance with my 30/06 is 20 give or take 5 depending on the day. Everyone can be different in this respect. My buddies son set down at the bench wearing just a t shirt. He then proceeded to shoot 50 out of my wife's 308 that weighs 6.75 lbs.. These were 180 gr over as much 4350 as would fit in the case and defined had quite a push. After he was done his only complaint was there was not more ammo. He is nearly recoil proof. 12 gauge slugs are about the only thing that bother him.
 
Me and a buddy had us a 308win range day.

We were shooting an old Cetme, a new PTR-91 his Ruger American and my built out R700.

The Hk pattern guns were big 'ol pussy cats. All that weight and the semi auto action soaking up the recoil.

Then we started in on the bolt actions. I was happily plugging away with my R700. Heavy fiber glass stock, muzzle break, 4-15x scope, decently thick rubber butt pad. It's not too heavy to tote around as needed, but it ain't light. Then we swapped.

After one 5rd group on his lightweight rifle I was over it. It's a nice rifle, I could see myself with one if I wanted a lighter weight hunting rifle. But it's not gonna go with me for extended practice sessions. It beat me up in short order comparatively.
 
Despite popular lore, your Carhartt jacket doesn’t really offer substantial recoil protection. What it does, however, is offer the rifle an opportunity to get a running start, so when it finally hits your shoulder, it has a head of momentum and you take more impact than the “padding” absorbs. Wearing a jacket like that only means you have to work harder to suck the stock into your shoulder properly so it doesn’t pick up more speed than it would otherwise.

.308win certainly has more recoil than is necessary for it’s capability. Free Recoil is about powder charge and bullet weights, and their respective velocities balanced against the weight of the rifle. Felt recoil is essentially a near-science La La Land. 308win, 7-08, and 6.5 creed are all running relatively similar charge weights, and at the “common end” of the 308, not so dissimilar bullet weights. The smaller Creedmoor case will run a bit slower, a bit lighter bullet, and a bit lighter charge weight - so each of these tiny changes does add up to a pretty substantial recoil reduction. A 140 at 2800 over 40grn instead of a 150 at 2900 over 48grn. Powder charge change matters 75% more than bullet weight change - so you’re talking about 15% less recoil momentum, and 33% less Free Recoil Energy on a 6.5 Creed than a 308win - all to do the exact same job.

Personally, for deer, I’ve come to consider the 6-6.5mm’s from Grendel to 243win to be absolutely ideal. Not a minimal concession that “will work if you only take short shots,” or “great for women and kids,” but a truly ideal class of cartridges for the task.

Many old generation folks have an irrational bias against brakes - to be honest, I expect because they’ve never cared to wear proper hearing protection with their rifles, and having a bit more sound coming back at them exceeds single layer protection. I shoot almost exclusively suppressed for hunting, but the rest of my rifles wear brakes. I spend most weekends shooting beside 50-80 “rude rifles” with highly efficient muzzle brakes - it’s really simply a matter of how a person wants to view the world. Folks banging the “brakes are too loud” drums usually don’t care much for anything which anyone else does which doesn’t align with their philosophy. I don’t tend to offer validation to silliness like that in my own decision making.
 
And hunting from a blind? If so, a target rifle will work just as well as a hunting rifle. The added weight will reduce recoil. That is the major factor in recoil reduction. Stocks do have some to do with it, a short or poorly fitting stock will compound a problem, but heavier rifle is the solution. Also worth mentioning is the improved “table manners” of the target rifle stock.
My target rifle weighs just under seventeen pounds. There is very little recoil...:D

If 99% of your shooting is done one way, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to buy a rifle styled for another.

Sporter rifles are designed for carrying. All day. Over there. Down this hill. Through this thicket. And then, take one shot.

If you like shooting and will be putting some rounds through it often, a .243Win or a 6.5 Creedmoor may be the ticket. With a definite tip of the hat to the 6.5 for deer. Inarguably, they will work on a deer and they have less recoil.


Just like,

, one of the more memorable mistakes I’ve recently made was firing my AR, in 450Bushmaster, from the bench, in a small plastic rifle holder(I am loathe to call it a rest.).
The first shot was incredible!
Not to be one to know when enough, is enough, I finished the magazine. Which is what filled out the bruise so nicely, I assume...

Light rifle, heavy recoiling cartridge, bad form, nice wallop.
Standing is not so bad, but I had no idea my threshold was so low! My two Thirty Aught Sixes don’t beat me so horribly.:eek:
They also have a nice thick pad too. Not a hard plastic buttstock...;)

Clothing really doesn’t have a lot of shock absorption either. Soft rubber pads are where it’s at!
I totally agree with this post.
One thing I'll add is, you get used to heavier recoil over time. But you can't jump in above your level. It will almost guarantee a flinch.
I prefer the 6.5 to any other bore diameter for deer. 6.5cm, 260, or 6.5x55 with a 120-130 grain bullet is perfect in the recoil to performance ratio.
 
First off welcome to the forum.
I have mentioned it before that I had to stop, due to injury, shooting, and hunting. I used to shoot a lot if 12 ga, 3006, and 7mm mag.

A year or so after surgery I tried shooting 12 ga field loads. One shot was all I could do. I picked up a 3006, and 7mag a couple years later, each was to much. The 7 mag actually brought tears to my eyes. Then I got a 243 win. In a savage 111, the first shot I took was like getting hit with a piece of paper.

Well I I picked up a 223, and a 7mm08 and used all 3 in a rotation every time I went out to the range. At first the 7mm08 was uncomfortable so I only shot a few rounds each session. Now I can shoot it all day and not have a problem.

My point is that recoil takes getting used to, the more you shoot the less it will bother you. I'd recommend rifles with increasing amounts of recoil until it doesn't bother you anymore.
 
...Free Recoil is about powder charge and bullet weights, and their respective velocities balanced against the weight of the rifle. Felt recoil is essentially a near-science La La Land. 308win, 7-08, and 6.5 creed are all running relatively similar charge weights, and at the “common end” of the 308, not so dissimilar bullet weights. The smaller Creedmoor case will run a bit slower, a bit lighter bullet, and a bit lighter charge weight - so each of these tiny changes does add up to a pretty substantial recoil reduction. A 140 at 2800 over 40grn instead of a 150 at 2900 over 48grn. Powder charge change matters 75% more than bullet weight change - so you’re talking about 15% less recoil momentum, and 33% less Free Recoil Energy on a 6.5 Creed than a 308win...
Thank you, VT. I hope everyone reads and digests the above carefully. There is a important difference between free recoil (measurable and calculable) and felt recoil (which involves acceleration/deceleration, duration, distribution of recoil to the shooter and the shooter's impression of the recoil). Adding mass to the firearm, reducing mass of the payload, reducing velocity and changing the vector and/or slowing the gas exiting the barrel are the only ways to reduce recoil. Adding a recoil pad, changing the shape of the stock, changing action type only change how recoil feels (changes to acceleration/deceleration rate, duration of recoil impulse, how recoil is distributed to the shooter).

I don't dislike muzzle brakes because I'm old, I dislike them because getting a sharp slap in the face from a firearm six feet to my side gets painful.
 
KJamesJr,
Good for you for recognizing this issue before blowing a bunch of money on something you may regret buying later on. Also, do not feel bad about admitting you don’t like the recoil. There is no one here with the authority to take away your man card. ;)

I personally like the .308 round but do not “enjoy” shooting it. What I enjoy are small groups and hitting where I intend for the bullet to hit. If the rifle isn’t accurate there is zero attraction to punishing my shoulder trying to make it accurate or finding the load it likes so it can be shot accurately.

My friends have laughed at me for my attitude and opinions regarding hard kicking guns and ammo. My one buddy called me a sissy because I will not shoot his .300 Win. Mag. I have shot them before and I have no need to shoot one again.

The one thing that you need to do is find out what your hunting conditions will be, or what you intend them to be. You mentioned northeast whitetail hunting.
Will you be hunting in thick woods or open fields? Thick woods with shots less than 100 yards, perhaps consider a 30-30 lever gun. Open fields with shots 150 yards and further? Then you will need to choose a cartridge that will work in that scenario. If you want the gun mostly for bench shooting and the occasional hunt then perhaps a heavier rifle will be the ticket.

One of the things that one must look at is the shape of the stock. If the stock doesn’t fit you properly then no matter what you do in regards to rifle weight, recoil padding, cartridge selection will make up for a poor stock fit. Having a good stock fit and a nice recoil pad will make a lot of difference in your perception of a rifle and how it shoots for you.

One thing I learned when buying a Remington 673 in .308 years ago was that what feels good and natural standing in a gun shop and pulling a rifle up to your shoulder and it’s actual use in the real world are entirely two different things. Shooting that gun standing up was a pleasure. Sitting at a bench or sitting on the ground leaning against a tree was entirely different. It was awkward and I caught myself fidgeting and trying to keep the gun in position to fire while also trying to regulate breathing and staying in target.
What I found was I had the wrong scope mounts (too low) and that I was crowding the scope. I also found that my LOP (length of pull) needed to be longer by 1/2”. The nice thing was by changing the buttpad to a thicker one I solved the LOP issue and the felt recoil seemed diminished.

There are lots of guys on here with lots more experience with this issue than I have. Heed their advice. Welcome to the forum. :)

PS: Why the Howa 1500? Since you are new to this I am just curious as to why you picked that particular model?
 
If you thought a .308 shooting 150 gr bullets was too much you should probably give up the idea of hunting. Sounds like you have never shot a rifle before. I would suggest you spend some time shooting a .22 and work up from there.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Not helpful^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Brutally honest. Sounds like the OP has never fired rifles before. The obvious solution is to start at the bottom and spend time with a .22. From there you work up.

Without starting at the bottom you develop bad habits like a flinch pulling the trigger. Start at the bottom and avoid the problems.

Maybe I could have worded it better but the first centerfire I fired was a .308 when I was 20 years old and weighed 135 lbs. Never a complaint from me because I started at the bottom.
 
IMG_20200223_100712939.jpg

A squishy recoil pad can make a big difference.

Although not a perfect fit (hence the electrical tape), this Limbsaver makes a big difference to the felt recoil of my Henry .45-70, versus the truck tire of a pad that it came with.

Popular brands of rifle usually have better aftermarket support, and so often you can find a pad that is designed to fit a common rifle design perfectly.
 
Brutally honest. Sounds like the OP has never fired rifles before. The obvious solution is to start at the bottom and spend time with a .22. From there you work up.

Without starting at the bottom you develop bad habits like a flinch pulling the trigger. Start at the bottom and avoid the problems.

Maybe I could have worded it better but the first centerfire I fired was a .308 when I was 20 years old and weighed 135 lbs. Never a complaint from me because I started at the bottom.

More like brutally rude. The dude literally says he’s new to rifles. He also says he’s shot several. He’s asking for assistance and opinions. Not an opinion that he should give up on hunting. We want to promote shooting and firearms in general. Not pooh-pooh someone who is honest with himself about what he finds uncomfortable. He needs to find something he can shoot maybe twice in order to bring down a deer. And look beyond that to some target shooting. Nobody cares at what age you popped your .30 caliber cherry.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys. I’ve read up on a lot of good info here so I’m going to try and cover a few topics instead of quoting everything.

I picked up a lot of rifles the past few days and to be honest none of them fit me well. The sales manager said I will most likely need a 1” cheek pad regardless of what I’m buying because I can’t see through the scope when shouldering the majority of the rifles. With the shortest rings the scopes were too high. I have longer than normal arms. A lot of the stocks are kind of short. I would say this plays a minimal roll as cheek shims and stock extensions can added easily.

Most of the hunting will be in the woods. 30-30’s are very popular here. I am however more partial to the bolt actions. The range and the mechanics I like most.

The general consensus seems to be going with either a heavier rifle, or a small cartridge like the .243. I liked the .308 due to long barrel life, ammo availability and rifle selection. I don’t want to limit myself to the .243 because... well you never know. I’m thinking now of splitting the difference and getting a smaller caliber in a heavier rifle. Something like the 6.5 in a 9lb rifle. I’m not looking for the next best thing, I just want something that works in the woods but I can shoot at a bench.

I’m a pretty fit person but no stranger to fatigue. I think my weight limit would around 9.5lbs +/- .5lbs for a carrying rifle. I won’t be shooting from a stand or blind. Given that if the 308 can be controlled easier in a heavier rifle I may still purchase the caliber.

Someone asked why I’m going with the Howa. From what I’ve read and what I’ve been told it’s just a good quality rifle. The sales manager could have tried to up sell me when I told him about wanting the Howa and he told me to stick with it as it’s a good rifle.

Someone mentioned something about not hunting. I feel pretty confident I can walk into the woods and kill a deer with a 30 cal. It’s not that I wasn’t accurate with it, or that it hurt. If I couldn’t manage it I wouldn’t have put a box of 20 through it. I simply don’t like the punch and the tenderness that followed. Nor do I want to develop any bad habits. I wouldn’t be going through the buying process on top of already taking the hunter safety course if I wasn’t serious about it. As mentioned I have shot rifles before. I fired 30 cals at 18. I didn’t like it then and I find much hasn’t changed now at 33. I thought the 308 was a step down from the 30-06 but for me it wasn’t. I’m looking for an alternative.

Someone at the range next to me was shooting a 308 in a AR platform with a muzzle brake the next seat over. I felt the blast in my skull. I waited until he was done before doing more shooting. I’m not against muzzle brakes, but generally I’d error on the side of caution and try to be courteous with one.
 
If you are splitting the difference the .270 does hold some appeal. A lighter grain bullet in .270 would offer some of the recoil reduction you seek, and you’d still have a projectile with plenty of knockdown power for deer and other animals. And it’s available in many popular rifle brands and models.

All caliber choices come with tradeoffs that you will need to be okay with, no matter your choice.
 
Brutally honest. Sounds like the OP has never fired rifles before. The obvious solution is to start at the bottom and spend time with a .22. From there you work up.

Without starting at the bottom you develop bad habits like a flinch pulling the trigger. Start at the bottom and avoid the problems.

Maybe I could have worded it better but the first centerfire I fired was a .308 when I was 20 years old and weighed 135 lbs. Never a complaint from me because I started at the bottom.
I take a slightly different view on that thought. I'd suggest buying a .22 rifle AS WELL as the centerfire of choice.
Shoot the .22 for a bit at the begining of the shooting session. After a warm up, fire the centerfire till the shooter is tired of it, then switch back to the .22 for a while.
This is the only way I can shoot a few of the rifles that come my way from time to time.
Recoil is part of the issue of dealing with larger rifle, but so is blast. Exposure to both will allow the shooter to develop the techniques, and resistance to mitigate the effects. You don't want that exposure to reach the point of pain tho, and taking a break to shoot something smaller and easier keeps the whole experience fun.

I'm about to head out to keep fire forming rounds for my 30-06ai, got 60ish left lol. I shoot much harder recoiling rifles, but I'm still taking my .22 (and 6.5 Grendel) to take a break with, when I get tired of shooting the bigger gun.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys. I’ve read up on a lot of good info here so I’m going to try and cover a few topics instead of quoting everything.

I picked up a lot of rifles the past few days and to be honest none of them fit me well. The sales manager said I will most likely need a 1” cheek pad regardless of what I’m buying because I can’t see through the scope when shouldering the majority of the rifles. With the shortest rings the scopes were too high. I have longer than normal arms. A lot of the stocks are kind of short. I would say this plays a minimal roll as cheek shims and stock extensions can added easily.

Most of the hunting will be in the woods. 30-30’s are very popular here. I am however more partial to the bolt actions. The range and the mechanics I like most.

The general consensus seems to be going with either a heavier rifle, or a small cartridge like the .243. I liked the .308 due to long barrel life, ammo availability and rifle selection. I don’t want to limit myself to the .243 because... well you never know. I’m thinking now of splitting the difference and getting a smaller caliber in a heavier rifle. Something like the 6.5 in a 9lb rifle. I’m not looking for the next best thing, I just want something that works in the woods but I can shoot at a bench.

I’m a pretty fit person but no stranger to fatigue. I think my weight limit would around 9.5lbs +/- .5lbs for a carrying rifle. I won’t be shooting from a stand or blind. Given that if the 308 can be controlled easier in a heavier rifle I may still purchase the caliber.

Someone asked why I’m going with the Howa. From what I’ve read and what I’ve been told it’s just a good quality rifle. The sales manager could have tried to up sell me when I told him about wanting the Howa and he told me to stick with it as it’s a good rifle.

Someone mentioned something about not hunting. I feel pretty confident I can walk into the woods and kill a deer with a 30 cal. It’s not that I wasn’t accurate with it, or that it hurt. If I couldn’t manage it I wouldn’t have put a box of 20 through it. I simply don’t like the punch and the tenderness that followed. Nor do I want to develop any bad habits. I wouldn’t be going through the buying process on top of already taking the hunter safety course if I wasn’t serious about it. As mentioned I have shot rifles before. I fired 30 cals at 18. I didn’t like it then and I find much hasn’t changed now at 33. I thought the 308 was a step down from the 30-06 but for me it wasn’t. I’m looking for an alternative.

Someone at the range next to me was shooting a 308 in a AR platform with a muzzle brake the next seat over. I felt the blast in my skull. I waited until he was done before doing more shooting. I’m not against muzzle brakes, but generally I’d error on the side of caution and try to be courteous with one.
You have done your homework and have picked out a great rifle in the Howa. Enjoy your new hobby in whitetail hunting!
 
Please note; new to the forums/rifles/hunting.

I’m getting my shopping list together for the first rifle I will take on my first hunt. North East whitetail. I’m new to shooting and firearms in general, although I have a buddy from work helping me out. He took me to the range today to test fire some of his rifles. One a .308, one a 30-06 and the other a 22-250 (I believe).

I had intended to purchase a .308 from Howa but now am second guessing the caliber. After 15 rounds through a Mossberg Patriot my shoulder was feeling it. 20 rounds and I was done. I’d also like to point out it’s winter and I had three layers on including a Carhartt. So I’m feeling a little emasculated. It wasn’t exactly pleasurable to shoot and 99% of my shooting will be from a bench. I was hoping it would be a good “all purpose” round because I’d like to pick up target shooting as a little side hobby (nothing too serious) or at least grow confidence in my ability to shoot.

I’m not exactly a small guy either 5’9” medium build. The ammunition itself was 150 gain and for some reason I just couldn’t get with it. To me it feels no different than a 30-06. The 22 was fine. Super light recoil could shoot it all day. My buddy was checking for form, everything was choked up nice and snug and was hitting plates at 300 yards. That rifle shouldn’t have been putting out more than 15lbs of recoil right?

My buddy tells me everyone reacts different and no one really likes felt recoil. That I shouldn’t feel bad. He basically suggested to go as light as I’m comfortable with and we’re playing with the idea of a 6.5 Creedmoor. 7mm-08 was on the list however the 6.5 ammo has flooded the shelves and the 7mm is hard to find.

Still set on the Howa 1500 platform. Should I give their .308 a shot? Step down to 6.5, or just settle with .243?

Anyways, sorry for the long post but thanks for reading.

Well...

Got my sons Mossberg Patriot Synthetics chambered in .270 WCF.

They are a light rifle with a good recoil pad, and shoot 150 gr. factory rounds at about the same muzzle velocity/energy as the .308 Win.

Recoil is < 19 lb-ft.

What kills game is well constructed bullets with adequate penetration to an appropriate location.

Doing your part - is paramount.


As I see it, you have One or Two choices to make.

1. Drop the recoil - A 6.5 CM will be ~ 14 lb-ft and will take deer fine.
2. Manage the recoil - A good tight shooting position will turn a 7.5 lb. rifle into a 57.5 lb. rifle, with the commensurate reduction in recoil.

Becoming a Rifleman - is important to successful hunting - and may mitigate your < 19 lb recoil problem along the way.

On the other hand - Luck, and a 6.5 CM, will fill a freezer as well.

And a Rifleman with a 6.5 CM is at no disadvantage in the deer fields.




GR
 
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I’m new to shooting and firearms in general. . . After 15 rounds through a Mossberg Patriot my shoulder was feeling it. 20 rounds and I was done. . . 99% of my shooting will be from a bench.
This sounds perfectly normal for a first trip. Second trip, spend some time feeling how the butt contacts your shoulder, and experiment with collarbone pocket vs shoulder muscle contact.

By the fifth trip, you'll be getting tired at 40 rounds; by the fifth month, you'll be fine for 80. I've been shooting weekly for years, and I'm still working up to .375H&H.

.308 is a great place to start if you want a white-tail capable all-purpose rifle.
 
I did not read entire thread so this may have been mentioned, having the rifle fit you is extremely important as far as recoil goes.

I'm 5'6" and 150lbs. While I like the 308 cartridge a lot I don't enjoy shooting it.

I bought a 7mm short action for my bolt gun (284 Winchester that has just a touch better ballistics than a 270.) I can shoot this rifle all day no problem.

I've decided at my height size, I must use a short action bolt. The browning a bolts fit me good.

However I have found short action remington model rifles are stocked for guys bigger than me and they pound me when I shoot them.

I also have a browning 348 win lever action carbine that is a "heavy" gun and I can handle its recoil for extended shooting since it fits me. And that's a 35 cal bullet at 2500ish feet a second.

I would look into the 7mm-08, I can't recommend the browning a bolts enough. 7mm 08 is an excellent whitetail and entry to shooting caliber and ammo is available off the shelf.

Also consider 270wsm another excellent cartridge. Ammo will probably cost more. And not as easy to get. Short action.
 
Brutally honest.
Still wasn't helpful, and not particular nice, it could have been worded in a kinder way.

My recoil level is .308, don't like the .30-06, too sharp, and forget 7 Mag. I do like the big push of the .458 Win Mag though. :)

Things that help recoil. Lighter bullets, slower velocities, more gun weight, better recoil pad.
 
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