Why no .22 Maximum?

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NIGHTLORD40K

NIGHTLORD40K

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I understand the reasoning behind .22 Magnum having a fatter case to deter numbskulls from shoehorning them into older, fragile revolvers......but, to me, the inability the fire conventional Long Rifle rounds through them (without swapping cylinders) makes the Magnum a no-go.

Why then has no gun maker attempted to do an even LONGER case rimfire? So long, in fact, that it would be impossible to cram one into a LR chamber- yet of the same outside diameter so that Long Rifles could be used interchangeabley?

Call it the .22 Maximum, or .22ELR (Extra Long Rifle), or such.........

If they made such a thing, I, for one, could hardly get my wallet out fast enough!
 
I agree. I think thats the big complaint with the 22 mag. But they didn't want a leaded up barrel when using jacketed bullets. Mixing them screws accuracy. So I get these for my .22 mags to plink with. Wmart has a bulk pack. so I'm just doing something similar. Oh one other problem. The jump for the bullet would be similar to using shorts in a LR. Not good accuracy and a ring of debris in the chamber when you go back to LR.
931d52e4c48d390a7c7bfceb281e624b_6.jpg
 
Scooter22 said:
I agree. I think thats the big complaint with the 22 mag. But they didn't want a leaded up barrel when using jacketed bullets. Mixing them screws accuracy. So I get these for my .22 mags to plink with. Wmart has a bulk pack. so I'm just doing something similar. Oh one other problem. The jump for the bullet would be similar to using shorts in a LR. Not good accuracy and a ring of debris in the chamber when you go back to LR.
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All valid concerns, but not so different from the issues with .38s and .357.......at least it doesnt seems like a safety concern with those. Indeed, the "jump" might even be less of a factor because the O.D. of the LR bullet and case are the same unlike with the .38/.357.
 
Sounds kind of like the CCI stinger cases, as they are a bit longer than regular LR cases and can be fired in a .22 LR chambered rifle or pistol.

9EC61BCC-3693-4C42-B0E0-FC1711EFA2E2.jpeg

FWIW the heeled bullet of the .22’s is what allows the longer case without problems in the regular chamber, the mouth of the case could never contact anything that would stop it from going deeper, the rifling or rim are the only things that can do that.
 
Hartkopf said:
Maybe not enough velocity difference to sell? Another 150 fps, for example, wouldn’t justify a new cartridge? Of course new cartridges seem to be dreamed up all the time now a days.
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It wouldnt even have to have any extra pressure or velocity- although that would be an added bonus if the gun were strong enough. They could just load it to regular .22 Mag. velocities.

The idea Im having is a cartridge with .22 Magnum power, but with the ability to use .22 LR for casual plinking or practice, without the need for a second cylinder.
 
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The fact that .22lr uses a heeled bullet doesn’t make it possible to have a longer case that won’t chamber in older guns.

The .22lr case is already pretty long for it’s diameter and this causes feeding issues in more often than fatter cartridges like 9mm. Anything longer is going to cause even more issues.

.22lr is so popular because it’s cheap. Any different cartridge is going to be much more expensive.
 
reddog81 said:
The fact that .22lr uses a heeled bullet doesn’t make it possible to have a longer case that won’t chamber in older guns.

The .22lr case is already pretty long for it’s diameter and this causes feeding issues in more often than fatter cartridges like 9mm. Anything longer is going to cause even more issues.

.22lr is so popular because it’s cheap. Any different cartridge is going to be much more expensive.
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Well, Ill concede that it wouldnt work in any sort of automatic action. Just as with the .22 magnum, though there are a handful of those around such as the PMR30. But feeding isnt really a goal.

As for the heeled bullet, the cartridge would have to be long enough that it would stick out of a revolver cylinder on the far side, therefore preventing the cylinder from closing (DA) or rotating (SA). One would just have to figure out what the longest .22 LR. cylinder is (Probably a M17 or .22 GP100 if I had to guess), and make the OAL of the cartridge a bit longer- say 2" or so.

If one attempted to insert such a cartridge into an older rifle chamber, it would engage the rifling long before the bolt/breech closed, I would think.

As far as cost- the cartridge itself would not be competing with .22LR but with .22 Magnum, and shouldnt cost any more to produce.

The abiliy to use standard LR ammunition would be a huge selling point for the gun.
 
It would be great if they did a bottleneck with the head size the same as the old 32 rimfire... pulled bullets and formed cases would make for a lot of old guns to be able to be shot again. Not gonna happen though.
 
Sounds kind of like the CCI stinger cases, as they are a bit longer than regular LR cases and can be fired in a .22 LR chambered rifle or pistol.

Yes but not in tighter match chambers. Then you can have a pressure problem.

Indeed, the "jump" might even be less of a factor because the O.D. of the LR bullet and case are the same unlike with the .38/.357.
I didn't think about the .22LR being a heeled style bullet with the driving bands the same diameter as the case. So I'd think they would ride the chamber tighter than a typical bullet that fits in the case. Might not screw the the accuracy as much. I don't think we'll ever know. But some are looking for a larger rimefire going back the the old .25 cal days. Good luck with that. I have a .22 Hornet and 25-20 to fit those nitches.
 
History, guys.
There was a .22 Extra Long.
The .22 Long, Rifle originated as the 40 grain Extra Long bullet in the Long case.
Smokeless powder obsoleted the Extra Long.
Would a .22 Extra Long Nitro +P be worth tooling up for? Apparently not.

Elmer Keith thought an updated .25 Stevens Long would have been a more worthwhile upgrade than .22 Magnum.
 
Yes but not in tighter match chambers. Then you can have a pressure problem.
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I didn't think about the .22LR being a heeled style bullet with the driving bands the same diameter as the case.
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Like I said, rifling or rim are the limits.
 
Jim Watson said:
History, guys.
There was a .22 Extra Long.
The .22 Long, Rifle originated as the 40 grain Extra Long bullet in the Long case.
Smokeless powder obsoleted the Extra Long.
Would a .22 Extra Long Nitro +P be worth tooling up for? Apparently not.

Elmer Keith thought an updated .25 Stevens Long would have been a more worthwhile upgrade than .22 Magnum.
Click to expand...

It’s been 85 years since they quit making it but it was a lot like a stinger loaded with a 40 grain and using BP.

ED96A15B-9D75-463A-92D9-32B0B3407734.jpeg
 
Jim Watson said:
History, guys.
There was a .22 Extra Long.
The .22 Long, Rifle originated as the 40 grain Extra Long bullet in the Long case.
Smokeless powder obsoleted the Extra Long.
Would a .22 Extra Long Nitro +P be worth tooling up for? Apparently not.

Elmer Keith thought an updated .25 Stevens Long would have been a more worthwhile upgrade than .22 Magnum.
Click to expand...

Well the dopes should have put the smokeless in the Xtra long case and all would be good. No .22 Mag and no .22 Maximum thread.:p:D Sorry I'm tired on a Sunday night.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
I understand the reasoning behind .22 Magnum having a fatter case to deter numbskulls from shoehorning them into older, fragile revolvers......but, to me, the inability the fire conventional Long Rifle rounds through them (without swapping cylinders) makes the Magnum a no-go.

Why then has no gun maker attempted to do an even LONGER case rimfire? So long, in fact, that it would be impossible to cram one into a LR chamber- yet of the same outside diameter so that Long Rifles could be used interchangeabley?

Call it the .22 Maximum, or .22ELR (Extra Long Rifle), or such.........

If they made such a thing, I, for one, could hardly get my wallet out fast enough!
Click to expand...
Worn chambers and light/shot out rifling are two reasons why I could see it not happening. All it would take is one idiot to combine the two, (and you know that would eventually happen!) and I'm thinking lawsuit.
What would such a round have in advantage over .22 Hornet or that stalwart of the .22 centerfire lineup .22 Jet? (or .22 Savage Hi-Power, AKA 5.6x52R)

NIGHTLORD40K said:
It wouldnt even have to have any extra pressure or velocity- although that would be an added bonus if the gun were strong enough. They could just load it to regular .22 Mag. velocities.

The idea Im having is a cartridge with .22 Magnum power, but with the ability to use .22 LR for casual plinking or practice, without the need for a second cylinder.
Click to expand...

Then you run into the same problem many do with .38/.357; a baked-on ring of carbon in the chamber that prevents using the longer round until it is removed.
 
entropy said:
Worn chambers and light/shot out rifling are two reasons why I could see it not happening. All it would take is one idiot to combine the two, (and you know that would eventually happen!) and I'm thinking lawsuit.
What would such a round have in advantage over .22 Hornet or that stalwart of the .22 centerfire lineup .22 Jet? (or .22 Savage Hi-Power, AKA 5.6x52R)



Then you run into the same problem many do with .38/.357; a baked-on ring of carbon in the chamber that prevents using the longer round until it is removed.
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The advantage is in the gun having the power of a .22 magnum with the capability to use cheap and readily available 22lr. There would not be any ballistic advantage over the centerfire .22s.

Could someone maybe shove a 2" long case into a .22lr chamber if the rifling was gone? I guess so, but the odds would be about the same as somebody managing to close a .38 chamber over a .357 round and yet the ammo makers still produce them both. Most .22lr rifle and semi-auto actions dont open wide enough to even attempt it I would argue.

Yes, carbon buildup would be an issue, but its one the .357/ .38spl world has managed to live with for a long time.

Perfectly valid reasons against it, but not insurmountable, I think.
 
I’ve said it many times before but I really wish there was a 22 WSM. Just neck up the 17 WSM.

I would take the first one produced and wouldn’t care how bad ammo supply was as long as there was a 50gr or heavier bullet option. It would be the perfect workaround for the rimfire only hog hunting areas I frequent.
 
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I thought the .22 WMR was a hot rod version of the .22 WRF.

the design from that, not to differentiate between reg LR and Magnum.

Just Winchester being proprietary.
 
There is a .22 maximum. It's one of the most popular cartridges ever made, and is currently used as the standard rifle cartidge of the U.S. military.

Semper Fidelis.
 
Because if it was made, who would buy it? If you want more power than .22 LR, buy .22 Mag. If you want more power than .22 Mag, buy .32 S&W or .32 Mag.

The days of rimfire cartridges has long been dead, it's only the .22 LR and Magnum family (including .22 Short and .17 HMR in that) that keep it around.
 
TTv2 said:
Because if it was made, who would buy it? If you want more power than .22 LR, buy .22 Mag. If you want more power than .22 Mag, buy .32 S&W or .32 Mag.

The days of rimfire cartridges has long been dead, it's only the .22 LR and Magnum family (including .22 Short and .17 HMR in that) that keep it around.
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If you get much above the current cost of 22 mag, you might as well graduate to 5.56/223. It is inexpensive compared to other centerfire rifle cartridges and the cost of entry level AR's is relatively low (or 9mm if you stay with pistols).

IMO, the purpose of going to rimfire is cost and the other rimfire cartridges are not so cheap. That and I imagine everyone wants semi-auto today and rimfire cartridges often struggle with reliability in semi-auto.
 
The design of the 22 lr brass doesn't allow for the increased pressure of a 22 Maximum. Ignition with rimfire cases is hard and would be more so with any significant increase in powder capacity and the cases couldn't take much more pressure. Thus, the different case design of the Magnum.
 
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