Your thoughts on PCCs (pistol-caliber carbines)

ATLDave said:

Living in one of the areas where PCC's got insanely popular insanely fast, there are definitely guns that I see run super reliably. There was definitely a lot of scrambling in the first year of PCC in USPSA, but there are now some pretty well-established "recipes" of part combos that work pretty darn well.

In contrast, I've seen people have insane levels of problems with the Ruger PCC's. But those are mostly used by old guys where I am, and old guys seem to have all kinds of skills at inducing malfunctions!

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I am prepared to admit that I was hitting matches almost every weekend when PCC became a 'thing' but have really reduced my match attendance the last year or two.

Glad to hear some people have it figured out!

I’m a fan of the pcc’s currently I’ve got a Colt 9mm AR, Cobray M11, Special Weapons SPP(based on the HK MP5) then also an knock-off of the HK MP5, MP5 SD and MP5K, I cannot remember who manufactured but all have been flawless.
Edit to add, forgot I’ve also got a PWS AR57, 5.7x28 uses the 50 round FN P90 mag.

Edit to add ... Scorpion, and picture ... most, but not all are "carbines" (sbr'd yet)

taliv said:

what i want to know is for a given course of fire, what are the average times and best times for PCC vs pistol

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PCC and Open pistols (the most race-gun of all guns - compensators, optics, big magazines) will generally be very, very close in performance at USPSA matches. PCC can only get scored minor, so they have a slight disadvantage on stages with lots of partial paper targets (i.e., where "center of brown" is a non-A hit), whereas open's major PF is no particular advantage with steel or very distant full cardboard targets... in most matches, these just about wash out. PCC and Open can pretty well run heads-up. PCC will be appreciably faster than any other pistol division.

That's among highly skilled competitors. PCC performances for lower-skilled shooters will be much better than pistol performances for lower-skilled shooters.

gunsrfun1 said:

Your thoughts on PCCs (pistol-caliber carbines)

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HOORAY! You started that out correctly! Thank you!

Many folks here (IMO, too many for the enlightened & enlightening bunch that we should be) just toss out an acronym with no initial, up-front, explanation and blithely charge off into the Thread.

bfoosh006 said:

I enjoy the heck out of my Colt Pattern 9x19 PCC.
Easily Accurate to 100yds, inexpensive to shoot and considerably better recoil impulse compared to my 22LR AR. ( Training wise. )
AR triggers range from incredible to Mil-Spec... just remember not all of them are compatible with all the 9MM AR PCC designs. The tip of the Hammer ( typically ) needs to be a full Mil-spec profile for a lot of the designs to allow full, consistent cocking.

But if you can do the same with a 22LR AR.. then stick with it. 22LR is dirt cheap.

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What is recoil impulse?

taliv said:

what i want to know is for a given course of fire, what are the average times and best times for PCC vs pistol

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A buddy of mine let me run his AR9 at a match awhile back. I had never fired his PCC before and wasn't familiar with the AR controls. Even with all that I hit a slightly faster time than I did with my stock pistol but more importantly I had all shots in the A zone vs my pistol I got, well less than that.

taliv said:

that's what i expected. i was guessing at the top end, pistol might have a slight advantage, but close to even and my experience almost assured me that they'd be much better than pistol on the low skill end.

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I would add that the last 2 years have seen lots of innovation in PCC equipment and technique. The footwork, how to hold the gun while running, etc., are all different with PCC... it took a little while for the "state of the art" to close the gap on the pistol, which have had 30+ years of innovation/perfection/competition to sort out fine points.* For instance, 24 months ago, most PCC guys dropped the gun down low to run... now most run with the buttstock up above their shoulder. Little stuff like that.

* Yes, I'm aware that people have been using rifles in action games for longer than that, but most rifle stages of 3gun matches were set up a little differently and with less emphasis on shooting into and out of positions, hitting precise foot locations, and the other things that are ubiquitous on USPSA/IPSC courses.

somethingbenign said:

A buddy of mine let me run his AR9 at a match awhile back. I had never fired his PCC before and wasn't familiar with the AR controls. Even with all that I hit a slightly faster time than I did with my stock pistol but more importantly I had all shots in the A zone vs my pistol I got, well less than that.

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Yep, that's one reason PCC got so popular so fast. It's just much easier to hit stuff. Remember how scary texas stars were to people 5 years ago? Now even n00bs can shoot those things fairly confidently - if someone has given them a PCC, rather than some iron-sighted handgun!

Of course, everyone you're shooting against in PCC is also getting "easy mode" for shooting, so being competitive requires being very fast.

taliv said:

i don't have time to go to matches though. i need the cliff notes haha.
if you've got any good links to videos or discussions on BEnos forum or whatever, don't hesitate to share

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I'm a pistol guy, so I'm just making casual observations. I don't think the great instructional book on PCC has been written yet. I'd look at videos of Max Leograndis, who seems like the odds-on favorite in any PCC match he enters. Whatever he's doing seems to work.

Here's his youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSu1aXNpFlKbxLs7Pk0U0qQ He goes by maximundi on Benos.

Well I live in Utah where you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a preper.

Years back I picked up over a half ton of decent 9mm ammo for less than $.09 /round.
So I have more PCCs and pistols with braces than I can count.
But I also have them in .40 , 10mm , 5.7 , .357 , .44 and .45

Is the High Point carbine worth the try?
I don't have a PCC but don't want to spend a ton on one. Also is it left hand friendly?

Unlike the Ruger PC or Beretta CX4, the High Point is not ambidextrous at all. It is crude but does the job, kind of like a Mosin or an SKS.

That said, as a lefty I haven't had any problems with it beaning me with brass or anything like that. The Hi Point works, and in my opinion is worth its low price. If you decide it's not for you, at least you aren't out of pocket by too much.

Spug said:

Unlike the Ruger PC or Beretta CX4, the High Point is not ambidextrous at all. It is crude but does the job, kind of like a Mosin or an SKS.

That said, as a lefty I haven't had any problems with it beaning me with brass or anything like that. The Hi Point works, and in my opinion is worth its low price. If you decide it's not for you, at least you aren't out of pocket by too much.

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Thank, I'm going to take a closer look at the High Point. Safe shooting

WisBorn said:

Is the High Point carbine worth the try?
I don't have a PCC but don't want to spend a ton on one. Also is it left hand friendly?

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The safety is definitely biased toward the right-handed but the rest of it seems fine to me. They are ugly, heavy, and only come with single stack mags, but the two I have used are dead reliable.

I have had my Hi Point carbine (40S&W) since around 2006. FUGLY as sin but it just works. I also shoot left hand and haven't had any problems with the Hi Point or any AR with the brunton bump (brass deflector). I also don't have any problems with my AR 9mm with the gas deflector and short ejection door.

Not counting rimfires I have 4 PCC, three levers in revolver calibers and a Ruger PC9 set up for Glock Mags.

Like most folks have said they’re a lot easier to shoot and hit with than handguns, especially as the ranges stretch.

I liken the PC9 to a 10-22 on steroids, it’s as much fun as any rimfire with a tad more punch when shooting plates or pins. For plinking it’s a hoot. For possible defensive use, the PC9 with 30 Win 124 +P SXT in the 3 large mags I have will handle just about any doomsday/ disaster scenario I could imagine... in my hands or being worked by my wife or kids.

The lever guns could do triple duty as plinkers, defensive use and 100 +/- yard hunting duties for critters up to moose (stout .44 mag or .45 Colt loads). Loaded down, they can be as mild as a .22 mag on the shoulder for newbies.

For versatile fun these guns are my favorites because they can do so much .

Stay safe.

WisBorn said:

Is the High Point carbine worth the try?
I don't have a PCC but don't want to spend a ton on one. Also is it left hand friendly?

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I know they're right-eject only, but I'm right-handed and so I have no idea how they handle for lefties.

For the $300-$350 they normally retail at, Hi Points give you your money's worth. If you want high capacity, I'd just jump straight to the Ruger PCC, but if 10 rounds are fine then Hi-Points are pretty fun.

JTHunter said:

One of the nice things about this is being able to carry a long gun and a handgun with only one ammo. Hence these two:
View attachment 894505 a Marlin 1894 and a GP-100 in .357 Magnum. View attachment 894506

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I thought I wanted to get into Cowboy Action Shooting and bought a Uberti Cattelman and 1895(?) in 45Colt ... but it passed ... does 22LR count?

Built a 9mm PCC, fun rifle to mess around with and great groups at 25yds, takes glock mags and can really romp out the rounds on the LNL when I want to feed it more. Need to get it out to a 50 or better range, but glad I built it.

I've got Marlins in .357 and .44 mag, Hi-Points in 9mm and .45 acp and a Suomi.
No regrets.