Capacity. How much does it matter to you?

For the fun of it, smallest thing I ever carry is the Kahr P9. It's getting an RDS update within days, as my eyes are bad enough now it's marginal at 25 yds, and I think if I can't (given 2-3 seconds to aim) hit a head at 25, it's not worth carrying.

It's a 5+1, so a slim 6 shooter.

And... another 8 rounder, always, as the backup.

12. Bare minimum when I consider myself armed is 12 rounds of 124 Gold Dots.


Before I decided I valued light and laser, my main low-profile gun was the only-slightly chunkier Firestar Plus. 13+1, and a 15 round backup. 29.


Normal carry (which I can do in a t-shirt and shorts) is the M&P9, RDS and WML. 2 @17s +1. 35.

And, lots of my armed professional friends mock me for only having one reload. They are more like 51 day to day (unless at the gym, etc etc). Yes, even off duty.


I have never picked a good number based on stats. One time — pre carry, decades pre legal CCW here — I and some friends were set upon by at least 8-12 members of a crowd exceeding 50. I got a concussion, we ended up with broken windows and lights and had to drive the car off road to escape (I also tried pushing another car out of the way. That only works in movies it turns out).

If I had a gun, and resorted to that... what happens? Does brandishing do it? 1-2 rounds for the imminent threat then the noise calms it down? Or does everyone break out weapons, and being surrounded (by cars, but no other cover or concealment within 200 yards), mean nothing short of a belt fed gets me out of it.

It is VERY hard to pick a top number that's needed, so: the most that I can carry concealed, and will actually bother to. Because like most of us: lazy.

shoobe01 said:

For the fun of it, smallest thing I ever carry is the Kahr P9. It's getting an RDS update within days, as my eyes are bad enough now it's marginal at 25 yds, and I think if I can't (given 2-3 seconds to aim) hit a head at 25, it's not worth carrying.

It's a 5+1, so a slim 6 shooter.

And... another 8 rounder, always, as the backup.

12. Bare minimum when I consider myself armed is 12 rounds of 124 Gold Dots.


Before I decided I valued light and laser, my main low-profile gun was the only-slightly chunkier Firestar Plus. 13+1, and a 15 round backup. 29.


Normal carry (which I can do in a t-shirt and shorts) is the M&P9, RDS and WML. 2 @17s +1. 35.

And, lots of my armed professional friends mock me for only having one reload. They are more like 51 day to day (unless at the gym, etc etc). Yes, even off duty.


I have never picked a good number based on stats. One time — pre carry, decades pre legal CCW here — I and some friends were set upon by at least 8-12 members of a crowd exceeding 50. I got a concussion, we ended up with broken windows and lights and had to drive the car off road to escape (I also tried pushing another car out of the way. That only works in movies it turns out).

If I had a gun, and resorted to that... what happens? Does brandishing do it? 1-2 rounds for the imminent threat then the noise calms it down? Or does everyone break out weapons, and being surrounded (by cars, but no other cover or concealment within 200 yards), mean nothing short of a belt fed gets me out of it.

It is VERY hard to pick a top number that's needed, so: the most that I can carry concealed, and will actually bother to. Because like most of us: lazy.

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Exactly. Most are lazy

Mr. Mosin said:

That 640 Pro meets all criteria, minus one.

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If it does for you, that's great. From my experience with other small frame revolvers, it would not do so for me. Honestly, attempting some timed drills was a big eye opener for me. And I seriously doubt I could even come close using such a gun. At least not without a huge amount of practice.

I guess in the end, we all justify our choices one way or another. Some justifications are more emotional, and some are more pragmatic. Many times it's both.

Which of the criteria does the 640 Pro not meet for you?

When one says a gun meets your needs - how many gun fights have you been in as to test whether it worked for you? How many one person to 4 person fights have you been in and share the outcomes?

This is a topic that comes up every few weeks in every gun forum.

Now a message from President JB in 2021:

My fellow Americans - given the language in the Heller decision which is ambiguous, I will resolve the ambiguity with an executive order similar in purpose and scope to that of my conservative predecessor Donald J. Trump. As he viewed the bump stock as too dangerous and useless for the American civilian public, I view the higher capacity magazines and guns that can hold them as similarly dangerous weapons of mass destruction. The bump stock would not have been useful except it was used with higher capacity magazines. I note that many massacres have occurred with 10 round magazines, so even that number is too high.

I have researched the issue through the gun worlds' own rhetoric. Repeatedly, they feel that higher capacity magazines and guns are not needed for self-defense. The average usage is about 3 rounds but most incidents are resolved without out shots even being fired. Most defensive usages are within a few feet so longer barrels are not needed. The few rare instances of higher round counts or longers distances are so infrequent that the majority of the gun world discounts those risks and regards those who worry about that as being, as I can say politely, slightly paranoid. Gun trainers who are national experts say that if you can't git it with a few founds, you ain't doing your job. You should run.

Also, about defense against tyranny, even a higher capacity gun in the hands of civilian cannot counter a F-15 with Hellfire missiles.

Thus, after reading the gun world's own views, I am appointing Beto as my gun czar and to work with the BATFE to devise a policy of confiscation of all hand guns except 5 shot Snubby revolvers. If your state allows carry - that is all that is needed.

Good Night and God Bless the United States of (what country is this again? - where am I?).

Now of course, this action by President JB might be countered by SCOTUS - oh wait, they won't take a case and/or Roberts thinks this is just dandy.

We now return to the View.

I agree with GEM. Basically anything and everything we post here can be used against us.

I’m pretty sure a member of THR just recently was doing a study (probably Bloomberg funded) where he was asking our opinions and telling us he will post results in 5 years, and that guns are absolutely not needed for the general public.

I carry 16+ because there could be a situation where 5 rounds leave me dead. Like the old saying goes; It’s not about the odds, it’s the stakes.

My 2 most common carry guns both hold six shots, that’ll be enough until it’s not. Then I’ll be dead so it want matter.

You are correct, if you are dead - it may not matter. How does that contribute? You are basically admitting that you accept the risk of having a gun that is limited. That is your decision. It is similar to not wearing a seat belt or smoking.

DeepSouth said:

Then I’ll be dead so it want matter.

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Deleted. Never mind.

I just sold the only real "high capacity" pistol I owned, a G20. Nothing I now have holds more than 9+1. If I think I'll need more, I'll have a couple of extra magazines with me. I've resigned myself to the belief that, if I'm ever involved in a shooting situation where more than a magazine's worth is needed, I'm probably not going to survive anyway. Believe me, I'm not going out by standing up and giving up, or rolling on my back and pissing myself, but I have to consider the odds. In a one-on-one scenario (man-to-man or man-to-animal), it's going to be patience and/or shot placement more than how many. If I'm in a zombie apocalypse, then it won't matter how many the magazine will hold.

The Bushmaster said:

I have 8 round in my carry weapon and 7 round in a spare magazine. That's 15 rounds. If I can't solve the problem with 15 rounds than we have a REAL problem.

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Agreed, but if you can't solve it with 8, you will be very glad that you have another 7.

I carry 15 +1. Not because I expect to need that many shots, but thats what it holds, so that is what I carry.
I do also have a magazine belt carrier that holds two additional magazines, but I only carry it when I am going to be working in a remote area and want to swap to hard cast or other ammo.
Urban carry, I only have the one magazine that is in the gun.

GEM said:

You are correct, if you are dead - it may not matter. How does that contribute? You are basically admitting that you accept the risk of having a gun that is limited. That is your decision. It is similar to not wearing a seat belt or smoking.

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Do you wear a 5 point harness, a nomax suit and a hans device with a helmet when you drive?
Same concept

Kleanbore said:

Why do you have your "carry guns"?

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Same reason we all do a hi cap 9 isn't a magic talisman

The progression of the handgun, and firearms in general, has been towards smaller and lighter, with higher capacity. Firepower matters. If you watch Active Self Protection or other security footage on Youtube, you know many of the defensive gun encounters end up being a response to an ambush. It isn't uncommon to see multiple assailants, and they get to choose the time and place of the encounter. Surviving an ambush is about response time, violence of action, and firepower. You are already behind, trying to catch up. If you fail or lack in any of these three things compared to your attackers, you are probably taking the room temperature challenge.
Murphy is an SOB. He rears his head at the least opportune moment and enjoys watching you fail. Things that can go wrong, will go wrong. All handguns are unreliable stoppers. You probably are going to have to shoot someone several times to get the desired effect. There may be several assailants. Nobody shoots as well when they are dodging bullets as they do on the square range, so you should be prepared to miss. This doesn't leave a lot of margin for error with only 7 or 8 rounds.
A lot of people like to talk about averages. But a gunfight is an anomaly. The average anomaly does us little good. If we were preparing for the best case scenario, or even the average defensive gun use, in which there is no rounds fired and merely brandishing causes the bad guys to tuck tail and run, then we would feel adequately prepared with harsh language. When it comes to defending your life, it is probably safer to prepare for the worst and hope for the best, and nobody ever got in a gunfight and wished they had less ammo.
Ammo is opportunity, the opportunity to save your life. In a marketplace full of compact, lightweight, reliable, high capacity handguns, why would you voluntarily limit the number of opportunities you have to save your life? If you only need five rounds when you have 15, fine. But if you end up in a really bad situation, between really bad guys and their escape, for example, and even one of them has a modern pistol with 15+ rounds, while you are stuck with eight rounds, that is probably not going to end well for you. Chances are, you are going to look really foolish, and then die. Don't be that guy. Don't look foolish. Don't die. This isn't 1920. Have enough capacity to be relevant in a modern gunfight.

I can’t understand how some of the previous posts center around “I’ll be dead anyway” or “It won’t matter.”

I look at as every minute I live longer is a win. If I get shot multiple times and will bleed out in 30 seconds, but I was able to take down the bad guy before I fade out, that’s a win. Especially if the next victim the bad guy was going to kill was a member of my family.

At the risk of stating the obvious, we have a gang problem in the Chicago area. Attacks by multiple attackers is not uncommon, and while we don't have many shootings in the suburb I live in (1 every year or two), the times it and other violent crimes such as armed robberies happened there were frequently 4 attackers. Capacity is very important to me, and 10+1 is my minimum with 12 + 1 being preferred. I would not want to have to defend myself against 4 attackers with 5 rounds.

Man, a little joking/sarcasm and you guys flip. I guess I’m not the best communicator.

But let’s face it no one can carry unlimited ammo, so we are all limited and your limitations may mean your death. If you don’t accept that you’ll live in a heavily armed vault.

Capacity means everything if and when you ever need it. The trick is to know (crystal ball aside, you never really will) if you ever will and to plan accordingly. Always a question of practicality vs the worst case scenario-a quandary that will never be resolved in this thread nor any other-ever.

I guess we never tire of this discussion, since we do it every few months or so.

I'm gonna stay firmly in the camp of 18-round mags are good, one in the pipe, and especially with two 20-rounders on the belt. That, with a good cup of coffee, I'm ready to start my day.

When I used to visit my local Wal-Mart (only to buy ammo back in the day), I might've sported a back-up-gun as well …

The average gunfight is supposedly 2-3 rounds. I suppose the trick is to only have average gunfights

I usually carry a Kahr P9, which is a 7+1 9mm in warmer weather. In cooler weather I have lately been moving toward a CZ P-07 in 40, which is 12+1. I suppose having the single stack might get me killed one day, but so far I’ve been OK. My body shape makes it hard for me to carry a bigger gun, although now that I’m retired it matters less if my gun prints or my pants need pulled up every three minutes.

Just staying home sounds really good these days...

I didn’t vote in the poll.

Kleanbore said:

Your lawful objective is to avoid being injured.

What happens to the other guy is non of your concern whatsoever.

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It is when in the defense of my family, which is what I wrote in the next sentence. I should have combined the sentences so it read as one thought. My first objective is for nobody to get hurt at all.

Hartkopf said:

It is when in the defense of my family, which is what I wrote in the next sentence. I should have combined the sentences so it read as one thought. My first objective is for nobody to get hurt at all.

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I agree.

If my family is involved I DON'T CARE what my "lawful objective" is. I'm going to do everything in my power to stop you before you get to them.