Kahr Arms?

George P said:

The Kahr forum has a great "sticky" tutorial on the proper break-in procedure, cleaning and lube procedure and how to check your mag springs - at one time, many of their mag springs were put in backwards

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I had forgotten about that. When I first bought my CM9 I couldn't load the magazine to full capacity. I broke it down & oriented the spring properly & then I could fully load it. To be honest I didn't really give it much thought. Other than the slide not locking back on empty the first time I shot it that was about the only issue I've had. The slide lock has worked fine ever since. The problem was a clumsy guy having his thumb on the slide stop. Not much real estate on that little pistol.

Is that forum on Kahr's web site, or somewhere else?

MedWheeler said:

Is that forum on Kahr's web site, or somewhere else?

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Kahrtalk.com... I've been a member there for years. It's not a very active or popular forum, but the regulars there are good people...

meatballs said:

Just curious about your opinions on Kahr Arms. I’m looking for a new 9mm for carry. Thanks in advance.

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I never owned or fired any polymer Kahrs, but I own 5 of their steel framed pistols (MK9,MK40,K9,K40).

I’ve owned:
3 K9’s
1 MK9
1 PM9
1 K40
1 T9

The K9 is an awesome carry pistol. Last one I had I gave to a buddy. (It was an NYPD approved off duty gun for years).

The K40 was not as reliable as I’d liked.

The MK9 was heavy for what it was. But, utterly reliable.

The PM9 was as easy to conceal as anything I’ve owned.

I’d carry any one of them again. Just other things worked a little better for me at the time.

The T9 is in a class of its own. Incredible ergonomics. Laser accurate.

sgt127 said:

I’ve owned:
3 K9’s
1 MK9
1 PM9
1 K40
1 T9

The K9 is an awesome carry pistol. Last one I had I gave to a buddy. (It was an NYPD approved off duty gun for years).

The K40 was not as reliable as I’d liked.

The MK9 was heavy for what it was. But, utterly reliable.

The PM9 was as easy to conceal as anything I’ve owned.

I’d carry any one of them again. Just other things worked a little better for me at the time.

The T9 is in a class of its own. Incredible ergonomics. Laser accurate.

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That's what I'm missing from my collection. A T9. I'll hopefully will be able to find a used one for a great price sometime this year. I have two 2 K40's, 1 MK40, 1 MK9, and 1 K9. No issues with any of them, but one K40 is still NIB unfired (for about 3 hours Bud's had them new for $297 with 3 mags plus Kahr had a $45 rebate going on... no brainier).

I prefer the MK9 the most and it's my favorite out of all of them. My wife is actually trying to steal it from me. It has some weight, but it's not too heavy at only 24oz. I can shoot hundreds of rounds through the MK9 in one sitting whereas some of the lighter 9MM have a little more sting to them. I generally carry the MK9 OWB and it's completely undetectable even with a medium untucked t-shirt. I added Lakeline steel mag followers, steel recoil spring assembly, and G10 grips, Wolff +20% mag springs, and TruGlo TFX Pro Tritium/Fiber-Optic sights. It's been flawless.

My Kahr experience has been a mixed bag... some good, some bad. I've owned an early carbon steel K9 that ran well but I really never liked the long trigger, (longer than other models). Next came a reliable and much lighter early P9. A nice gun that was traded for a PPS. Bought a T9 that was ok but it never made me love it. Very reliable but it rubbed my middle finger raw at the trigger guard. Something the K9 didn't do. Weird.
Then I went .45 acp with the P45 and TP45. Neither proved reliable and I could not shoot either with any speed whatsoever due to the recoil. Sold them both.
Tried a new CW9 but it was never reliable. Around the same time I picked up another K9 , this one with the shorter elite trigger. This became a favorite for many years and many thousands of rounds. Then it recently broke! My faith was shattered.
Along the way I picked up TP9 that is my favorite Kahr. Reliable but it experienced several broken followers, all replaced by Lakeland after market followers. Kahr followers have long been a weak spot.
After all of that I still went for a S9 when they were offered a few years ago. So far it's been ok after maybe 1000 rounds. I prefer the three dot sights on it to the standard sights.
I call myself a Kahr fan but my experience has moved me away from trusting the brand as a trusted carry brand. I think that's nine guns and only three were reliable enough to gain my trust. I enjoy them but don't trust them the way I do say HK or Beretta, guns I put round after round through without failures, broken followers or other parts.

usp9 said:

My Kahr experience has been a mixed bag... some good, some bad. I've owned an early carbon steel K9 that ran well but I really never liked the long trigger, (longer than other models). Next came a reliable and much lighter early P9. A nice gun that was traded for a PPS. Bought a T9 that was ok but it never made me love it. Very reliable but it rubbed my middle finger raw at the trigger guard. Something the K9 didn't do. Weird.
Then I went .45 with. P45 and T45. Neither proved reliable and I could not shoot either with any speed whatsoever due to the recoil. Sold them both.
Tried a new CW9 but it was never reliable. Around the same time I picked up another K9 , this one with the shorter elite trigger. This became a favorite for many years and many thousands of rounds. Then it recently broke! My faith was shattered.
Along the way I picked up TP9 that is my favorite Kahr. Reliable but it experienced several broken followers, all replaced by Lakeland after market followers. Kahr followers have long been a weak spot.
After all of that I still went for a S9 when they were offered a few years ago. So far it's been ok after maybe 1000 rounds. I prefer the three dot sights on it to the standard sights.
I call myself a Kahr fan but my experience has moved me away from trusting the brand as a trusted carry brand. I think that's nine guns and only three were reliable enough to gain my trust. I enjoy them but don't trust them the way I do say HK or Beretta, guns I put round after round through without failures, broken followers or other parts.

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What broke on the k9?

The trigger bar broke. The part that contacts the cam seared off rendering the gun useless. Never expected that. This admittedly after thousands of rounds, but still.
Kahr did repair it for free but it took about 8 weeks.

usp9 said:

The trigger bar broke. The part that contacts the cam seared off rendering the gun useless. Never expected that. This admittedly after thousands of rounds, but still.
Kahr did repair it for free but it took about 8 weeks.

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Can't speak on the other problems, but the the trigger bar is $14 part that isn't hard to swap out. The nice thing about Kahrs is that all the replacement parts along with diagrams are catalogs for sale in their main website. You can find replacement parts in eBay as well for cheap.

I agree that I heard bad stories about Kahr 45 ACP's and Kahr mags. The rest of the mentions I've heard from owners have been favorable. The main complaint about the mags are the followers (which I believe they changed the design and added a small steel insert), and the fact that they have the tendency to lose a round. I never had a follower break, but I have had the top round fall out the mag if throw in a range bag, etc. Stored in a mag holsters, I never had this happen or any issues. Even still as we both referenced, there are companies who make after market springs, recoil assemblies, triggers, followers, etc, so those are an option.

The thing about Kahr is that they been making guns for a long time, and they don't really have a versioning system nor are they public about any design updates other than the dimple under the slide meaning the slide is cut for the newer sight desgn. As you can see in the pics below, there are changes to the design of the Kahrs in my collection. I've even started a thread on KarhTalk about this and no one even noticed the differences when I pointed them out. No one knew why or when these changes took place. Some of the issues that might have plagued earlier Kahrs have been address, but there's no way of really telling the difference especially if you buy used.

I'm very pleased with my CW9. It's extremely reliable and much more precise than I expected.

I currently own four 9mm Kahr pistols a CM9, An MK9, a CW9 and an ST9. I've also owned Kahrs in 45 acp and 380 acp. Nine millimeter is definitely the sweet spot for the Kahr design.

I have a PM40 that I got used for super cheap. My hands are too large to shoot it effectively with the regular magazine, but I can shoot it well with the extended magazine.

I took it to the range a couple of times, maybe 100 rounds total, and had no problems.

The last time I went to the range it failed to return to battery properly some of the time. It was maybe half an inch shy.

Today I replaced the mainspring... and realized that I'd had it in backwards.

I'm assuming my next range visit will be trouble-free.

I don't find the trigger to be at all long or troublesome.

Assuming I get a couple of trouble-free range trips with it, I will probably start carrying it on occasion.

I shoot it accurately and the recoil is NBD. With the extended magazine and a pocket holster it fits in larger cargo pockets without getting turned around.

Don’t forget about the CT line. They’re dirt cheap, relatively speaking. And they kahr through and through.

Charlie98 said:

Mine have all been reliable, with one exception (a P45 I had.)

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My P45 was garbage, too. It kept having bad days with feeding: worked reliably for a few magazines, then FTF, then worked again. It whacked followers with the barrel lug as well as dropped mags randomly (even when shooting left-handed). Factory magazines were hit an miss: fully 30% for them failed to feed outright. Lots of people reported using 1911 magazines, but that never worked in mine. I destroyed 6 or 7 of them trying to get them working and only managed to make 1 that fed okay (a Kimber), but that one did not lock the slide.

I am still on lookout for a T9 at gun shows, but P365 and Hellcat put the final nail into the idea of carrying a Kahr.

When I was searching for a subcompact 9mm I rated and tries Kahr CW9, M&P Shield, and Walther PPS M2. I thought the Shield and PPS M2 were nearly equal but that the Walther had the better trigger and much better ergonomics. Both beat the the Kahr on trigger pull, recoil management, and ease of racking. My accuracy with CW9 was the worst of the three. I attributed that to three things: trigger pull, recoil management, and the fact that everything I read about the Kahr indicated that it would take at least 200 rounds to break in th gun. I bought the Walther which was top notch out of the box with no break-in. Never any type of failure in over 1,000 rounds. If you are considering buying I suggest you rent the gun(s) at a range before deciding.

1942bull said:

I attributed that to three things: trigger pull, recoil management, and the fact that everything I read about the Kahr indicated that it would take at least 200 rounds to break in th gun.

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The trigger DOES require some amount of familiarization, it's true. I don't shoot DA revolvers well, but I can shoot the Kahr lights-out... but the Kahr fits my hand better (the 9mm's.) Recoil? What recoil? As far as that break-in thing... I've never had to break one in, and that's including 3 brand new CW9's and my CM9; or I guess you could consider my first range session the 'break-in trial' but that was just me shooting a new pistol, and I didn't encounter any problems, anyway. I guess I'm of the opinion that I would no more take a NIB pistol out of the box and shove it in my carry holster, without running at least a box of ammos through it... officially 'breaking it in' or whatever.

1942bull said:

If you are considering buying I suggest you rent the gun(s) at a range before deciding.

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Now... THAT I agree with!

I’m a Kahr fan and own the CM9, CW9, CT9, & CT380. Like all mechanical things, they aren’t perfect, though.

The 9mm’s have functioned without problems, and I trust them for carry and home defense. I purchased them all as used so I don’t know their former use or problems, but the CT380 had issues with light strikes and feeding issues. I contacted Kahr, shipped the gun to them, & they fixed the problems at no cost for repairs or return shipping. Shipping to them was my cost since I’m not the original owner and it was beyond any warranty period, but that’s fair. And the repaired CT380 cycled 200 rounds of assorted FMJ (and a few mags of my carry JHP ammo) without a problem after I got it back, so it’s an EDC pocket gun now, too.

I'm surprised by some who say the trigger is bad or the triggers on other guns are better. It's usually people who can only shoot and only like the shorter and lighter striker fired triggers. If a trigger isn't like a Glock trigger, it's considered not good. The problem isn't the trigger but the skill level of the shooter IMHO. Kahrs have DA revolver like triggers but are much shooter and lighter. Matter of fact, they have smoothest double action like pull on the market hands down IMHO.

I have a CW9, a CW45 and had a CT9, bought it new cheap and sold it before I ever had a chance to shoot it. I like the CW9 and carried it for a while and it ate everything I put in it. I then got a CW45 (my favorite) and carried it for six or so years, it was very accurate but had a tight chamber and some reloads wouldn't chamber but never failed with factory loads. I used Colt Officers ACP mags in mine after tweeking the mag lips they were 100% reliable. The trigger pull was very good, felt like just about any DAO pull or shooting a revolver double action. Wish I would have gotten to shoot the CW9.

Steve.........

Man, this thread is making me want to get another Kahr. I went shooting yesterday with my G48 that I'm trying to transition to. Not an insignificant investment. ~$450 for the gun, $40 each for the six S15 mags (plus shipping), another $60 or so on a trigger (because the stock trigger pinches), ~$100 for sights, $20 for traction ships and, so far, about 800 rounds of ammo.

I shoot the CT9 more accurately and faster than the G48. Those extra rounds sure do look like a lot less of a reason for the transition.

I carry a CM9 often, although not as often now as I used to. My CM9 is 100% reliable - in about 500 rounds, it has never failed to function with any ammo I have tried, including handloads. In comparing my other 2 small carry pistols, the Kahr trigger is almost as smooth, but has a longer pull, though with virtually no stacking. I don't know how they do that, but the trigger is indeed very nice. The comparison pistols are a Sig P365: slightly better trigger and far less travel, and a Kimber Solo: better trigger than either the Sig or the Kahr (... and I'm sorry to tell you guys that don't like the Kimber Solo, mine is a truly fine handgun and just as the Kahr and P365 are, it's been 100% reliable with the correct ammo.)

I would recommend a Kahr CM9 to anyone for carry. A great little gun.

I've had a CM9 since 2014.

I did almost everything that Jocko on KahrTalk recommends doing for break in. I cleaned the CM9, including using non-chlorinated brake cleaner in the striker channel. The brake cleaner partially erased the paint on the rear sight. I went to Hobby Lobby and bought Testers Bright White paint and repainted the rear site with a toothpick. I manually cycled the slide 500 times. Yes I actually manually cycled the slide 500 times.
One of the things that you are supposed to do is double-check to see if the magazine spring is inserted correctly. When I looked at the magazine I noticed that I could see the spring coils. It wasn't until I took the magazine apart and a plastic piece fell out that it dawned on me that the reason I could see the spring coils was because the follower was broke. Yep I received a magazine from the factory with a broken follower. Kind of ironic that they test fire the gun at the factory and the test firing breaks the follower and they don't notice it and ship it out broken anyway. But obviously they're not test firing the gun to make sure it doesn't break followers, they are firing it to make sure it feeds, fires and ejects. Maybe they should add another thing to their test checklist "Look at the follower after test firing"

Jocko at KahrTalk recommends using FMJ at first and I had read on the KahrTalk forum where users had trouble with some 115gr ammo during the "Break In" phase, and read where guys who were using hotter ammo didn't have problems, so I decided to use "NATO" ammo for the first few hundred rounds. When I say NATO - I mean 124gr FMJ rated at or near 1200 fps from a 5" barrel. That is a little hotter than the average and quite a bit hotter than the rather anemic 115gr Blazzer Brass. Fifty rounds of the Winchester Ranger RA9124N (NATO) and 200 rounds of the Georgia Arms 124gr "NATO" I considered those 250 rounds the "Break In" rounds and I fired other stuff like 147gr Federal HST and 115gr Winchester "Target" FMJ.

The broken followers didn't affect performance at all. For me, the feed ramp just punched out the front section of the magazine follower that was hitting. I could have left things the way they were, I didn't have any malfunctions. But Kahr offered to do a rampectomy at their expense so I sent my gun in. It came back with 2 new magazine followers, and of course the little guy had undergone a rampectomy.

Styx writes:

If a trigger isn't like a Glock trigger, it's considered not good... ...Kahrs have DA revolver like triggers but are much shooter and lighter. Matter of fact, they have smoothest double action like pull on the market hands down IMHO.

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This is true. Seasoned revolver-shooters will "get" the Kahr trigger fairly quickly. Glock-only shooters will find it different enough to require some acclimation (just like revolver-only shooters would when firing their first Glocks.)

I've had a CW9 for about 11 years and carry it fairly often. Thin, long but smooth trigger and accurate. Slowly going to the G43 as it is a little smaller, thinner, and I hit better with it. Gave up on the Shield. Alternate in a EC9S every now and then. All similar in size.