I seem to be a better shot from prone

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it’s simply easier to get comfortable, because not all benches are perfect height for seat and bench to fit an appropriate position.
I use an old drummers stool at the range for bench shooting, just adjust it to fit. It rotates on a threaded shaft to go up or down. I also have a folder that is adjustable, but not as finely.
 

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I recall my first day on the range at Parris Island with an M1. The instructor impressed upon us that the prone position was the best position to achieve maximum accuracy. That is due to stability of ground contact with a large portion of your body rather that two feet or one foot and knee to your butt and two feet. That is true whether shooting a long gun or a handgun. In a self defense situation it also makes you a lower profile target.
 
And the training I received as a youth was NOT a part of BSA nor 4H. I've never been a member of 4H, and there were female youth who trained right alongside me, it was not associated with the BSA. However, the BSA summer camp my older brother and I went to had a rifle training program, but was a short duration being part of summer camp. The NRA youth training I participated in was NOT a short duration program, I went there for years, including after leaving the BSA, and stopped going when I took a job at Wendy's as that income providing activity schedule trumped my being able to continue the routine evening meetings and participation in that training program. I also secured my Texas Hunter Safety certification through that same group, when I first started there, in 1973. I started working at Wendy's in 1975. This group met at the rear of the #1 Fire Station in Corpus Christi, Texas, where that section had been converted into an indoor range for this activity. That section of town had become a bit run down as things like shopping malls came into being, andrepairs and renovations of that older part of the city were spotty at best after Hurricane Celia in August 1970 that my family and I rode out. There was a strip club next door to what was converted into the rifle range we trained at. My father was amused watching me during a break where we went outside of the range on the sidewalk on a hot summer evening, this range was not climate controlled, seeing a cop and a stripper with an unbuttoned shirt lazily thrown over her shoulder, otherwise clad in a design that would pass as fashionable ladies' beachwear today, holding an extended conversation and smoking cigarettes on the sidewalk next door. It's still a vivid memory from when I was 14 years old! I wasn't driving age during the years I participated in this program.

Now tell me more about how my firsthand experiences couldn't possibly be authentic @Varminterror.
 
@Mr. Zorg - your reading comprehension is as bad as your memory.

The youth programs are not EXCLUSIVELY offered through the 4H or BSA - you should have read above I said they OFTEN are. I differentiated that your criticism of the current rifle shooting classes don’t line up with the youth program you recall is inappropriate, because the rifle shooting courses aren’t the same thing as the youth training program.

Please share the name of your recent NRA instructor who failed to follow the NRA instructor guide for an NRA basics of Rifle shooting class. His Training counselor and training HQ will be interested to correct his course content. Unless students point out these failings, HQ has no ability to to improve the quality of their instructors to meet the standard they expect.

As I shared, your instructor WAS instructed to teach 5 position shooting, and he IS required to teach 5 positions during a BoRS class. If he only instructed on benchrest, then either he could not have been flying under an approved NRA class structure, or he failed to meet the standards for instructing that class.

And again, all 5 positions, including sling usage, are included in the NRA BoRS class, as well as remain to be included as standards for the NRA/Winchester Marksmanship Qualification program.
 
Please restate this as you what you actually mean, as I infer from the below question that the program and book do not include the 4 basic shooting positions, nor sling use. When you ask - why doesn’t the program include 4 position? - and you state there is nothing about using a sling, it sure seems I wasn’t far off in how I read the below section.

Why doesn't the NRA Basic Rifle training program today include shooting from all 4 the basic positions on the range as well as being in the book now, and nothing about using a sling in the range exercises?

I could envision some NRA instructors not including sling instruction during the live fire portion if you didn’t bring a sling on your rifle, but he should have doneso if you had one. However, he was required, if he wants to keep his credentials, to follow the NRA instructors guide, such he absolutely should have instructed you on 5 shooting positions. Excluding required content like that has been a means for loss of certifications for many instructors, and he likely needs to be added to the list.
 
@Varminterror, this may come as a complete surprise to you, but I don't answer to you.
FWIW, I didn't think you could read my post objectively, but you certainly have had ample opportunity to do so, even when you chose to quote part of it in your own post.
 
I did read your post. Apparently you took my response as a personal attack, which it was not intended to be. You incorrectly classified the current NRA programs as lacking material which, as an instructor myself and holding the instructor guide, NRA supplied course presentation, and the course Guidebook, it’s easy to prove the material IS included in the course.

I can’t help you if your local instructor failed to adhere to the REQUIREMENTS laid out by the NRA for him, other than to again request you provide his name, such I could contact his Training Counselor to audit his classes and former students. If your claim is true, and I have no reason so suspect it is not, then he’s failing to instruct that which is required of him by the NRA, and he’ll either be corrected or released.
 
Ditto, early seventies for me. Good fun and competition meets. Use of a sling was very important!

View attachment 897519

Nearly fifty years later, still have the patches on the inside of the door to the powder storage, out grew the shooting vest.:)

We received metal badges that my parents paid for. My memory is a total of 8 bars were available after achieving Sharpshooter. My brother participated for a longer period than I did, including BSA Summer Camp on top of the training at the range in the back the old #1 fire station. I achieved 4 of those bars before my first time clock punching, paycheck with things like FICA deductions job took schedule precedence. Inspired by you, I took my awards out of the closet for a photo like you. Marksman First Class is a bar added to the Marksman award, rather than a separate award. 20200308_212025.jpg
 
I did read your post. Apparently you took my response as a personal attack, which it was not intended to be. You incorrectly classified the current NRA programs as lacking material which, as an instructor myself and holding the instructor guide, NRA supplied course presentation, and the course Guidebook, it’s easy to prove the material IS included in the course.

I can’t help you if your local instructor failed to adhere to the REQUIREMENTS laid out by the NRA for him, other than to again request you provide his name, such I could contact his Training Counselor to audit his classes and former students. If your claim is true, and I have no reason so suspect it is not, then he’s failing to instruct that which is required of him by the NRA, and he’ll either be corrected or released.
I didn't take your post as a personal attack any more than the NRA youth training I participated in was affiliated with 4H or BSA. You read my post, but still refuse to do so objectively and demanding my post to be rephrased just for you is one more layer of the all kinds of wrong you can't own.
 
Varminterror said:
What you went through as a youth was not the NRA Basics of Rifle Shooting Program, it would have been one of the handful of “youth marksmanship coaching programs,” often offered through partnerships between the NRA and 4H or BSA.
Mr. Zorg said:
And the training I received as a youth was NOT a part of BSA nor 4H.
Varminterror said:
The youth programs are not EXCLUSIVELY offered through the 4H or BSA - you should have read above I said they OFTEN are.
Mr. Zorg said:
I didn't take your post as a personal attack any more than the NRA youth training I participated in was affiliated with 4H or BSA.

There is no contradiction. Why are you pretending that there is?
 
We still offer both medals and patches as incentives for the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program.

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And we still instruct people on the classic 4 rifle shooting positions both in the Basics of Rifle Shooting class and in the Marksmanship Qualification Program - most typically used by any coach or instructor leading a youth program.

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I use an old drummers stool at the range for bench shooting, just adjust it to fit. It rotates on a threaded shaft to go up or down. I also have a folder that is adjustable, but not as finely.

I wish adjustable tables - worthy of shooting benches - were so easy to source.

I tend to find getting a seat of proper height to let my legs rest flat footed at nearly 90 degrees (balls of feet under knee caps) is pretty simple, but then finding a correspondingly adjustable bench top to allow a proper upright spine position is where I tend to struggle. I’m 5’10” with a 36” inseam - short torso, long legs, my wife is 5’4” with a 31” (which she ends up walking off under the heel of her boot, so probably a true 29”) - short legs, long torso. She’s ALMOST the same height at the shoulder above a seat as I when we’re both seated, but our seat heights are VERY different for our legs. Shooting prone from an elevated deck is super simple and fits both of us. Benches and seats to fit us both... not so easy. I built the bench at home to fit me, then she has to put concrete pavers under her feet to make up the leg difference.
 
Prone is as Taliv said, the most stable position. Shooting from a bench is less stable. There isuch greater potential for body movement and your muscles have to do more work.
As far as instruction, I had multiple courses in the army, qualified expert multiple weapons, was a trained and certified instructor multiple courses for 4H, DNR, NRA, and got to shoot at an Olympic training center. I almost forgot bring attached to the AMU in Germany. But I don't care to run long and multiple post's to sound like I know everything. But I do know a few things.
 
My only issue with prone is after a few "back" surgeries I don't have the range of motion in my neck anymore....prone is very difficult for me now.

I try to do it as much as I can but it will flat wear on me.....one shot then about 30 sec with my head looking down and wondering if the feeling will come back to the arm.

Tried a few things...canting to the side, everything I have tried has not really worked
 
When I think of shooting from the bench, I think about slow fire from a supported position in which the rifle itself is supported at the fore-end by either bags or a bipod, and the butt stock also possibly supported by a sand sock or similar support. If I compare this to traditional unsupported prone position shooting, I am somewhat more accurate shooting from a bench than shooting prone, although on good days I can come close shooting prone.

I am a bit mystified by the comments regarding lack of body support causing inaccuracy in bench shooting since it is rifle support that is the critical factor. So long as the rifle is fully supported by bags,tripod, bipod, etc., natural point of aim can be achieved and easily maintained. All that the body has to do is not screw it up shouldering the butt stock, achieving a decent cheek weld,, and pulling the trigger and I don't find that too challenging.

I know that some people find the prone position uncomfortable. I am actually pretty comfortable in prone despite having a long history of neck problems. But my rifle scopes have to be set up considerably farther forward for prone shooting than bench shooting. As for adjusting to the height of the bench, just go to Harbor Freight and get one of those mechanics roller stools with the pneumatic height adjustment for about $20 or so. I take one to the range every time I plan to shoot from the bench.

Shooting unsupported prone you are basically supporting the fore-end of the rifle on a monopod. That monopod is your support forearm. Even if you can plant your support elbow directly under the rifle, and some magazine configurations prevent this, it is still a monopod. A good loop sling definitely helps but a monopod is inherently less stable than a bipod, tripod, or sand bag. Moreover, when the support arm and hand are relieved of the requirement of supporting the fore-end of the rifle, the support hand can be used to fine tune and then stabilize the butt stock with a much greater degree of control than one can accomplish with the shoulder.

Now, shooting prone from a supported position using a bag or bipod for front support and a sand sock for butt stock support, I can probably shoot more accurately than I can from a bench, or at least as accurately.
 
I shoot more accurately prone than kneeling or standing for sure. A nice bench, rest and bags beats a good mat for me. Lots of variables in comparing the two though.
 
It depends on how you define “shooting from a bench.” My idea of bench shooting is from a concrete, unmovable, bench using a fully adjustable front rest that weighs 25 pounds and a rear leather bag rest filled with that ultra dense black sand. Of course, at this point it’s more about testing the capabilities of the rifle than my own. This for me is far more likely to show the true accuracy of a rifle.

My preferred method of shooting, the results of which I will claim the responsibility for, is prone off of a bipod. I use pantyhose to make squeezeballs filled with tumbling media that I use to support the rest of the rifle.
 
I am a bit mystified by the comments regarding lack of body support causing inaccuracy in bench shooting since it is rifle support that is the critical factor. So long as the rifle is fully supported by bags,tripod, bipod, etc., natural point of aim can be achieved and easily maintained. All that the body has to do is not screw it up shouldering the butt stock, achieving a decent cheek weld,, and pulling the trigger and I don't find that too challenging.
basically a lot of people put the rifle on front and rear rests or bags, then sit on a stool behind it, and rest their head on it and put their shoulder into it. because their torso is moving around (breathing, pulse, swaying, etc) it moves the gun around, despite both front and rear support.
a lot of "competitive benchrest" shooters, with 3oz triggers and BR cartridges in 20lb guns will aim the gun without any body contact and then touch the trigger which solves that problem. but guys trying to shoot some milsurp with a 12lb trigger and 30-06 in 10lb guns will use their body to stop the rifle from jumping off the bench...
 
For those who find shooting prone uncomfortable (myself included) I suggest the following

1. Do the superman stretch as a periodic exercise

superman_main_0.jpg

2. Shoot prone more often

3. Shoot prone more often
 
most of the people who find prone uncomfortable are either egg shaped, have neck injuries, or find it inconvenient getting up and down.
superman stretch would prob help people who can shoot prone but become uncomfortable after long periods of time (like 25 min for prep, unlimited sighters and 20 rounds for record)
 
a lot of "competitive benchrest" shooters, with 3oz triggers and BR cartridges in 20lb guns will aim the gun without any body contact and then touch the trigger which solves that problem.

That may be the most solid evidence for a bench. How many benchrest records have been set prone?

Likely the same number of prone records that have been set off a bench. :)

I guess it’s how one shoots a particular firearm the best and what “best” means. I don’t have any one method that I use for everything all the time.

That said, some of the most accurate fire I have done, I had zero or near zero effect on the firearm except the initial aim point and at what time it fired.
 
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