Extreme Spread - Should I Be Concerned?

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Simply because what might be considered good/accurate at 50ft will fall apart @ 50yds when you have high es's/sd's.

Some people might consider this target/ammo/load accurate.
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In reality it's nothing more than blammo ammo/plinking ammo/dirt clod killers @ 10 paces. Good old unique and 60fps+ es's. The only reason I use that load is because it doesn't mater what bullet profile I use, anything in the 240gr to 265gr weight range will produce +/- 2" groups with that 11.5gr load of unique. Which means I don't have to put the rear sight up on blocks to get it high enough to hit 6" plates @ 100yds.

@ 50ft that load shoots bugholes in targets, @ 25yds I start to see a flier/1 shot out of the group. @ 50yds the fliers start showing up & @ 100yds I need to be on my game to hit 6" plates. Hense blammo ammo.

But the OP did not say at what distance and regardless shooting off hand I doubt any difference will be noticed in a 40 to 80 fps with so many other variables involved.
 
D.B. are you using mixed head stamps?
Have you checked to see if the cylinder throats are consistent?
I trim my brass to 1.149" and I don't mix head stamps. My revolver brass is kept in boxes of fifty so it has been fired and reloaded about the same number of times.
 
Should I be concerned about this? It's obvious that this is being caused by one or two shots outside the bell curve, but does this indicate a problem with either my powder measure/thrower (Lee Auto Drum) or my process?
If it’s grouping acceptably for you, then no. You can’t have a high confidence in the shape of the bell curve with a small sample size so just go with your velocities and decide if you need to adjust the load to meet your minimum specification. For my loads, I need to meet 125 PF, so I develop loads for 130-132 PF and keep tabs on the SD to help insure that random sample at the chrono stage will make 125.
If you’ve got a hint of OCD, when you craft your test loads, number each round, use your powder measure but measure every powder throw for each round, measure every case length, measure every COL, measure every bullet weight, and keep track of the chrono data per round. Then it gets really aggravating, since when I do this I find the rounds that have higher powder throws and shorter COLs don’t necessarily lead to higher velocities.
 
Try magnum primers and confirm your crimp. I had ES of 105 on a batch of 50 10mm that I trickled to 13.5gn of AA#9 exactly but my inconsistent crimp & standard primers resulted in large ES even with perfectly consistent powder drops. I now feel primer & crimp are the more important factors. 100 FPS is a lot of FPS and it's unlikely powder drop variation accounts for all of it.

With such a large case I also recommend barrel tipping as a good test to see if position sensitivity is getting you.
I use magnum pistol primers for everything these days and try to use Federal only. I know that certain powders, HS-6 being one of them, perform much better with magnum primers. Before my chronograph and other shooting equipment got stolen I spent a lot of time comparing velocities and spreads, trying to find some sort of magic, but I wound over thinking. I have never replaced the Chrony because now all I care about is accuracy. I have a real good idea of the velocity based on manuals and experience and less things to think about. Either a load shoots good or it doesn't
 
I have ran five shot strings of factory Magtech .44 Special with very similar deviations between high and low velocities that you are getting. Like already mentioned, if your load is accurate, no big deal.
Thanks for the feedback. I haven't bought factory 44 spl ammo in about 2 yrs. (Since I bought the press.) Ot's too expensive. SO it's good to have a factory reference to compare to.
 
If your "accuracy" is good then why concern yourself wit ES. ??

In large part because I have a minimum velocity to meet for the league I shoot, and I want to make sure I don't go below that. With this ES, shrug, that's a concern. (I realize that the solution is to just bump up the load 1 or 2 tenths of a grain.)


Then you can get into outside temp, humidity, altitude time of day, moon phase.:)

I do wonder in what ways and to what extent atmospheric conditions affect velocity, because I shoot from 15 degrees and 40% RH up to 70 degrees and 80% RH, but that's another discussion altogether.
 
Simply because what might be considered good/accurate at 50ft will fall apart @ 50yds when you have high es's/sd's.

Some people might consider this target/ammo/load accurate.

I would, at least for the purpose we're discussing here. In fact, that's about the results I normally get from the bench. I would just adjust the sights and go.

Which means I don't have to put the rear sight up on blocks to get it high enough to hit 6" plates @ 100yds.

LOL, you too!? smh. Yeah, when I go from shooting 44 specials to hot loaded magnums, I have to lower the rear sight all the way to to the stop, and it still shoots high. I need a spare front sight to which I can gob on epoxy and paint it black, then sand it down to get a good zero.
 
Try magnum primers and confirm your crimp. I had ES of 105 on a batch of 50 10mm that I trickled to 13.5gn of AA#9 exactly but my inconsistent crimp & standard primers resulted in large ES even with perfectly consistent powder drops. I now feel primer & crimp are the more important factors. 100 FPS is a lot of FPS and it's unlikely powder drop variation accounts for all of it.

With such a large case I also recommend barrel tipping as a good test to see if position sensitivity is getting you.

It may be possible that I'm not putting enough crimp on here and there, but would that cause a lower or higher velocity?
 
But the OP did not say at what distance and regardless shooting off hand I doubt any difference will be noticed in a 40 to 80 fps with so many other variables involved.
At most 25 yards, and that's rare. 20 is more common and the norm is 15. And I agree, I'm much more likely to miss because of technique or fatigue than because of an 80 fps drop in velocity.
 
D.B. are you using mixed head stamps?
Have you checked to see if the cylinder throats are consistent?
I trim my brass to 1.149" and I don't mix head stamps. My revolver brass is kept in boxes of fifty so it has been fired and reloaded about the same number of times.

No. This is entirely Starline Brass that came from either factory loaded HSM ammo or bought new unfired. I've weighed a few random cases from both sources and all were identical or nearly so in weight. However, I've never measured or trimmed the brass. I don't track the times fired, but no so any signs of damage.
 
In large part because I have a minimum velocity to meet for the league I shoot, and I want to make sure I don't go below that. With this ES, shrug, that's a concern. (I realize that the solution is to just bump up the load 1 or 2 tenths of a grain.)




I do wonder in what ways and to what extent atmospheric conditions affect velocity, because I shoot from 15 degrees and 40% RH up to 70 degrees and 80% RH, but that's another discussion altogether.

All those factors (air temp, humidity and altitude) do effect velocity but would think it would be true for all shots in the group

All the same brass and bullets, I have no clue. Other than perhaps try a slighly higher charge or even another powder. Does you min velocity meet the standards??
 
It may be possible that I'm not putting enough crimp on here and there, but would that cause a lower or higher velocity?
Crimp can affect velocity. More crimp will usually increase velocity. Another problem you're probably seeing is at such low pressure you're getting inconsistent sealing of the cases against the cylinder walls.
Easy fix load some a little hotter and bench rest them at 25 yards and see what happens to accuracy.
 
I think light bullets affect the burn.
Try some 240-250 gr bullets like Smith & Wesson and Elmer Keith used.

I am loading powderpuff .45 ACP and ES is wide. Bullseye is the most consistent - or least inconsistent, really - of powders I have tried.
 
Ran some 44 Special loads over the chronograph today, and saw some things I didn't like...These seem like significantly high deviations...

Should I be concerned about this?...

Accuracy is consistent and acceptable....but I'm just wondering if this indicates a problem somewhere.

Only in your mind, if you are happy with how it shoots and can’t tell the difference, no, there is no problem. Even if you had a firearm capable of great accuracy off the bench, I doubt you could see a difference, on paper, at 7-15 yards. Put the chronograph away and enjoy shooting.

If accuracy was unacceptable or inconsistent, you might want to start problem solving but if it ain’t broke...
 
i forgot about powder forward/powder back. large case volume coupled with a small powder charge can generate extremely extreme spreads. unique powder is the best for being insensitive to this phenomenon, imo, at least according to my tests with the 45 colt and 255 grain bullets.

luck,

murf
 
One of my most accurate loads in 44 magnum has really high es. I trimmed the brass, hand loaded the powder, measured crimp and still had high es. Now I just load it on progressive press again, don’t trim brass and enjoy shooting it.
 
When I am working on a load I try to reduce as many variables as possible.
I shoot these loads off a bench or tailgate with sand bags, I try to replicate the same grip as if I were shooting with no rest.
If a load seems worthy I will chrono those loads, often the most accurate are not always the ones with the lowest extreme spread of velocity.
I do use a chrono for initial work up for bullets I have no data for. JMHO:)
 
HHMmm I would think a larger sample size would most likely lead to a larger ES but a smaller SD,
but then am not a Math major or a stat guy.

If they shot well ES and SD don't really matter, most targets are worse at math than I am:D
 
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