I'm on a wheel gun kick...

Watch that wheel gun stuff, people will talk...... A fine wheel gun is just a thing of beauty, like a fine, solid gold Pocket Watch.

I have two S&W revolvers and one Colt that are 100 years old or older. They all shoot just fine. I use mild target ammo. The S&W M&P is a little more wobbly than I would prefer, but just a little. The Colt is tight as a drum. The Hand Ejector is in between.

My best revolver triggers have been S&W revolvers made in the 50's, 60's, or 70's. I like Rugers, but their DA revolver triggers have not come close. I only have the one Colt, and its trigger is just pretty good.

If fixed sights are okay, I would go for a police turn-in Model 10. The one I have has an excellent trigger and it cost around $300 OTD.

If you prefer adjustable sights (I do), look at the adjustable sight versions.

I've owned three Taurus Model 66 variants made from the mid 1980's until 1991. I still have two. One was stolen from me. They all had/have very good to excellent triggers, were reliable and accurate.

I had a Rossi Model 971 made in the early 1990's. It was also reliable, accurate, and had a nice trigger. I had to give it up in a trade. It was a good revolver.

If single action doesn't bother you, the Old Model Ruger Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks made in the early 1970's or earlier have exquisite triggers. They are not safe to carry loaded with six, but they are incredible range toys.

My last auto handgun purchase was a Glock 17L and an LCP II on the same day, about two years ago-ish... the other handguns I’ve purchased since include a S&W Model 66 .357, S&W model 67 .38, a S&W 48 .22 WMR and a Ruger Wrangler .22 LR.

I’ll be honest, other than maybe a 10” MkII or maybe an older Smith target .38 Wadcutter or .22, I’m just not enamored with buying another auto right now...

Curse you, oh wheel o’ fun!!

Stay safe.

I've always been a revolver guy. I have to admit I carry bottom feeders , simply because every time I have revolver money in hand I choose something big. It's a character flaw. But I have been considering a carry revolver (I've carried big ones in the past). Right after I order this BFR I've got my eye on...

gregp74 said:

I'm trying to be somewhat responsible this time. Rather than just running to the store and throwing my money at the first thing that looks neat I'm actually taking the time to learn just what I'm buying. And I have a few other recent purchases to keep me busy so there's no hurry to get something. (Also kind of hoping to find something used that's in good shape.)

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My first revolver (and handgun for that matter) was a Rockford Park Police S&W M681 trade-in, lol.

Had to sell it to feed my kids when things got dicey during the Big R. I miss it every day.

I might be over-compensating now. It VERY hard to resist accumulating S&W revolvers because there is so much variety and they all have different "personalities"-

Sounds like you already have a fine old shooter in that M&P (assuming the timing and endshake check out). I wouldnt hesitate to shoot it with factory non+P loads.

That said, the M686 (stainless, center) is my favorite because it is the near-cousin of my long-lost 681. Sigh.

I’m not a wheel gun guy, but there are two that I have owned and wish I still had. Both smiths.

A 610 10mm and whatever the number is for the .45 acp model. Both very fun calibers to shoot and play with. Slick shooting and quick to reload and you don’t have to chase brass.

Hmmm... I’m feeling an itch.

Miss my little Model 63 (gifted it to a grandson last year):

I shot a couple of my revolvers at an indoor range today. The other lanes were occupied by shooters using semi-autos. There seems to be some kind of rule that when shooting a semi-auto one must fire one shot per second until the magazine is empty. Their groups would not have been covered by a dinner plate, even at 5 yards.

I am not a good bullseye shooter. After 60 years of shooting I still have to concentrate to avoid jerking the trigger. But I thought I could do better than my range companions, bless them,

I shot these last 6 shots of the day with my Smith and Wesson Model 18, made in the 1970s, one handed, single action, with the target all the way down to the end of the track, 51 feet. I don't think I give much away using a wheel gun.

Seems like trigger control should be emphasized to new shooters, sometimes.

Armybrat said:

Miss my little Model 63 (gifted it to a grandson last year):

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Good for you!

gregp74 said:

I’ve been eyeballing that Model 19 classic. Anyone have experience with those?

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I have several "classic" models, though none are the Model 19. I really want to like them, but they just aren't very good guns, at least for the money. As long as older ones cost the same or less, I would recomend you buy them instead.

gregp74 said:

I’ve been eyeballing that Model 19 classic. Anyone have experience with those?

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I have a Model 19 that digests .38 Specials with gusto. It has the thin barrel throat/forcing cone, as do other K Frames, that has been known to crack after shooting 125 grain .357 Magnums.

So if you are looking to shoot .357 Magnums mostly, get an L frame 586 or 686, or N Frame. If you are content with shooting .38 Specials, the Model 19 is a wonderful choice.

Mine:

gregp74 said:

I think I saw someone post that the 19s are a 38 frame, and I'd be better off with a 586 or 686 that's beefier.

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Well, it depends. The L frames add a bit of weight, which helps damp recoil. They also will hold up better if you shoot lots of magnums, and are also better if you want to shoot really hot loads. The same can be said again for the N frame, which is the next size up. (That would be the Model 27, in S&W parlance.)

My main competition gun was built on a 686 and I put roughly a zillion rounds through it, to the point that it's pretty well used up now. So L frames are very impressive guns, in my opinion. But they are also neither here nor there, to me. I find that for carrying, and for shooting midrange .357 ammo, the K frame fits me perfectly. When I really want to shoot a bunch of rounds, or really hot rounds, I usually reach for an N frame. The L frames tend to stay in the safe these days.

J-Bar said:

I have a Model 19 that digests .38 Specials with gusto. It has the thin barrel throat, as do other K Frames, that has been known to crack after shooting 125 grain .357 Magnums.

So if you are looking to shoot .357 Magnums mostly, get an L frame 586 or 686, or N Frame. If you are content with shooting .38 Specials, the Model 19 is a wonderful choice.

Mine:

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Fair enough. I will only add that I put lots and lots of midrange (158 grain semiwadcutters at 1200 fps) through Model 19s and so far have not done any harm. I do not fire jacketed bullets - especially 125 jhp - through them at all, though.

.38 Special said:

Fair enough. I will only add that I put lots and lots of midrange (158 grain semiwadcutters at 1200 fps) through Model 19s and so far have not done any harm. I do not fire jacketed bullets - especially 125 jhp - through them at all, though.

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Yes. I think the hot 125 grain slugs caused the problem, related to bullet length. I have shot 158 grain bullets in my 19 with no problems either. With arthritic hands, I got nothin' to prove these days!!

The new model 19 Classics do not have the cutaway at the bottom of barrel. I called S&W and spoke with a man in customer service they said the new 19 can handle a steady diet of .357 magnum with no problem. I wrote his name down for future reference but I do not remember his name right now.

If you get an older model 19 I would recommend sticking with 158 grain .357 loads of / when you shoot magnum loads. It’s the lighter bullets that cause the cracking issue, I have been told. I haven’t cracked one (knock on wood) so I have no first hand experience with that. I have a model 19-4. I mostly shoot .38s but I do shoot .357 magnum occasionally. It’s so hard not to. The gun seems more accurate shooting .357.

Since you like wood and blue steel I would also look at a model 586. I think a 586 with a 4” barrel is about perfect in regards to balance.

I own a model 60 Pro. You were right to walk if the recoil of a .357 from a 23 ounce revolver doesn’t interest you. I must say that shooting 158 grain .357 SD loads from mine is quite invigorating.

I wouldn’t call the 19, or 66 for that matter, a .38 frame. I’d call it a .38 +P frame. I shot lots of .357 out of mine. I never broke a frame or cut a top strap all the way through, but I did knock the timing out of whack.

I’ll say that for a .357, the 19 makes a heck of a .38. Loads mimicking the 158gr Lswc Hp are a pleasure to shoot.

Any K-frame S&W .357 is best thought of as a .38 with the capability to fire Magnums in a pinch. That said, you may give up a bit of accuracy firing the short cases in the longer cylinder, and of course over time it will build up a carbon ring that will have to be scrubbed out eventually.

19s are fine guns if you dont care about match accuracy or shooting tons of hot magnums. But if .38 is all you ever plan to shoot, then the M14 or M15 may be a better choice thanks to their shorter cylinders.

Armybrat said:

Miss my little Model 63 (gifted it to a grandson last year):

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It went to a good home

I love the beauty of wheel guns. Rugers fit my hands. Ps. If for carry, the short barrels are ok. If for home or fun, I’d get a 4 inch, longer (5 1/2 min) for hunting. On second thought, I’d get all three!!

gregp74 said:

I think I saw someone post that the 19s are a 38 frame, and I'd be better off with a 586 or 686 that's beefier.

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Howdy Again

Not quite. The model 19 is built on the K frame.

Let's go back a little bit into the history of S&W revolvers for a slightly more thorough explanation.

This is a Smith and Wesson 38 Military and Police 1st Model, also known as the Model of 1899 Army-Navy Revolver.

This is the first revolver Smith and Wesson made for the then brand new 38 Special cartridge. The frame size of this revolver came to be known as the K frame.






This photo shows how the cylinder for the Model of 1899 was the perfect size to accept six 38 Special cartridges. Just enough metal between the chambers to contain the pressure generated when the cartridges fired. (I might add that the very first 38 Special cartridges were loaded with Black Powder, not Smokeless. Anybody who has ever reloaded the 38 Special will have noticed how much extra space there is in the case after the powder charge has been added. This is because Black Powder was not as energetic as modern Smokeless powder, and a cartridge loaded with Black Powder needed a lot of space inside for enough powder for a man stopping load.






Interestingly enough, there was no relief cut on the bottom of the forcing cone on this model.






But not too much later S&W modified the design of the gas collar on the front of the cylinder, and a relief cut was added to clear the modified gas collar. This is the forcing cone on a 38 M&P from 1939, clearly showing the relief cut. So the forcing cone is slightly thinner in the area of the relief cut. This was never a problem with 38 Special cartridges, there was never an issue with K frame forcing cones splitting with standard 38 Special ammunition.






I explained earlier how the Model 19 came about, as a 357 Magnum revolver built on the K frame, weighing less than the N frame 357 Magnum revolvers available at the time. This is the forcing cone on an N frame Model 28. The cylinder is much larger than the cylinder of a K frame revolver, so there is more space between the center of the cylinder and the center of the bore. Notice how massive the forcing cone is on this revolver, and notice there is no clearance cut because the extra space means it is not required.






Around 1980 Smith and Wesson came out with the L frame. Slightly larger than the K frame, but not as massive as the N frame.The point was there was slightly more space between the center of the cylinder and the center of the bore. So there was no need for a relief cut to clear the gas collar. This is a photo of the forcing cone on a Model 686. Not as massive as the Model 28 forcing cone, but because there is no relief cut there is no weak spot where the forcing cone might tend to split. The L frame was designed specifically with the 357 Magnum cartridge in mind, unlike 357 Magnum K frames, which are a bit of a compromise.






One more photo. Here is the forcing cone on my K frame Model 19-3. You can plainly see the relief cut. I have owned this revolver for 45 years and it is still going strong. Of course I don't shoot much Magnum ammo through it, never have. And when I do it is pretty much 158 grain Magnums.






So there you have it, how the K frame came about to house a brand new cartridge called the 38 Special. Except of course if you look at the caliber marking on any S&W 38 Special revolver it will say 38 S&W Special CTG. It is the same cartridge, S&W likes to add their name to 38 Special because they developed the cartridge. And CTG is short for Cartridge.