Non-Colt SAA Pattern Revolvers

Never tried one but you are correct about the Pietta connection. My guess is that they would be acceptable to the average shooter like me.
My guess is the undeserved reputation as low quality of the small bore offerings keeps their big bores off the radar.

Mr. Mosin

Can't speak as to where Heritage Firearms Big Bore revolvers are made (though I thought at one time they were made in Germany), but EMF Company carries a rather extensive line-up of Pietta SAA revolvers if that's what you're looking for. I have a Beretta Stampede which was made for them by Uberti and the overall fit and finish are very nice. I also have an older Ruger Vaquero which is also an extremely solid, well built single action revolver.

I have a definite preference for Rugers as I've owned them for yrs and their customer svs has always been excellent to me and many others on this site.

Mr. Mosin said:

When I eventually get around to buying one (if ever I do) I want the 4 click hammer. Buddy has a Vaquero. Points like the finger of God. But I want the 4 click hammer on one.

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Which should also include the hammer-mounted firing pin. You should go full Colt style, not transfer bar, if you want authenticity.

However, I owned one of the earlier New Vaqueros that had a case-hardened cylinder frame. Very nice and very accurate. Shot to point of aim too.

I picked a great western 2 .45 Lc a while back- it was thru SOG in their last few months. Got it shipped under $350.
It’s a great revolver, and other than the markings looks 99% like a colt SAA to me at least. Tight lockup, and parts seem to be fully interchangeable with actual colt parts... firing pinned hammer, etc...

Old Stumpy

However, I owned one of the earlier New Vaqueros that had a case-hardened cylinder frame. Very nice and very accurate. Shot to point of aim too.

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Same thing with my older Vaquero: with factory ammo or handloads that are close to factory spec., it shoots to the point of aim. And while it's nice to hear those 4 clicks it's much nicer to have a really accurate gun as well.

As a long-time Ruger fan, I believe they build the best S/A available.
However, I also wanted to scratch the SAA itch, so I bought an Uberti el patron in .45colt. I am very happy with it. I was introduced to uberti and pietta through my cap and ball revolver addiction, and was impressed with their quality. I wasn't disappointed when I got my hands on the El Patron. It is smooth as butter and very accurate. Fit and finish is excellent.
I am not a competitor but a plinker and woods roamer. I am glad I decided to try the Uberti. If you decide to try one of the Italians, the el patron is supposed to be the factory tuned high end model Uberti.
It does not have the 4-click action. I believe the Piettas do.

bannockburn said:

Old Stumpy



Same thing with my older Vaquero: with factory ammo or handloads that are close to factory spec., it shoots to the point of aim. And while it's nice to hear those 4 clicks it's much nicer to have a really accurate gun as well.

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I've owned Vaqueros, Ubertis, a Colt and a USFA the only one I had issues with POA/POI was the 44 Special Ruger Sheriff it had to go back to the mothership for a taller front sight.
We won't get into the Taurus Gaucho fiasco.

Mr. Mosin said:

Is their quality lacking, or are they just overlooked ?

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Well, yes and no...

I bought a brand new 4.75" .357 Big Bore last spring. I do like the gun, it is pretty decently finished, and shoots as well as I can. The downside is, the was an issue with the bolt not locking up into the cylinder notches with the hammer down. When cocked, there wasn't an issue. This was un-fired and new out of the box, mind you. So, I called Heritage. Per the rep, I could pay to have it sent back, and they might fix it and they might not (possibly on my dime), and then I would have to pay return shipping! I told them to stick it, and 15 minutes with a file and some emory cloth had it locking up tight. Essentially the bolt was minutely wider than the notches, and it wouldn't fit in them properly with the hammer at rest. While it was apart, I went ahead and smoothed and polished the working parts, and now have a pretty slick little six-gun. I've never put it on paper, but I fear if I did I'd be disappointed. The gun will shoot minute of tin can at 10 yards, and has claimed the lives of several possums and other varmints around the farm.

Bottom line, I would definitely give any Heritage arm a thorough inspection before taking it home. And, even though I like mine now, I couldn't recommend someone else purchase one. They're simply "good enough", no better; a range toy or occasional plinker. If I had it to do over again, I'd save a little more money and buy a Uberti, or an EAA.

Mac

There might be a certain amount of “guilt by association”. Heritage has a reputation for very useable but not higher quality firearms. People looking at the rest of their line might think the entire line is of the same quality.

This may taint a gun if and when it comes time to sell it.

If the purchase price is much lower than a comparable gun of the same quality, go for it. If similar in price, I’d stick with a more established brand, especially after the previous tale here of poor customer service.

I handled a Big Bore and it seemed well made. I will admit, I couldn't get past the stink of the rimfires with glued in barrels associated with the name.

I bought a Great Western II in .357. Points and shoots like a SAA, more accurate than my Ruger, and if I am in an absolute pinch I can carry it 6 up with the firing pin resting between the thick rim of the .357 cartridges. Truthfully, I like it better than any of my Blackhawks.

I have Rugers and shoot them a lot. They resemble a Colt but are very different under the hood. Ruger revived its medium sized frame to make the New Vaquero closer to the size of a Colt but it’s still a wee bit larger and heavier than a Colt. In my opinion, though, if you want a revolver that can be safely carried with a round under the hammer, Ruger is the way to go.

Uberti and Pietta make revolvers that are closer in size and function to a Colt. Some, like the Great Western 2 line sold by EMF (a long time Pietta importer that is now owned by Pietta) are very faithful replicas of the Colt SAA. For better or for worse. Carry with the hammer down on an empty chamber.

Some of the Italian guns have safety features of various types. Both companies have made revolvers with a transfer bar ignition. The Heritage Big Bore is an example as are Piettas sold by Cabelas and Heritage, the Beretta Stampede and the Uberti Horseman. I’m not very impressed with these. They look weird and they have a reputation for breaking. Uberti’s latest idea is the Cattleman 2 which has a hammer mounted firing pin that retracts unless they trigger is depressed. A good idea, maybe. Some have had problems and others seem to work OK.

In my experience, shooting sass matches fairly aggressively from 2005 to 2014, it broke down along these lines:

Rugers were the primary choice of the competitors, do to strength and durability. The Metallurgy was good, and with the modern coil springs, there was less to break.

The Italian Colt clones were a strong second choice. The Metallurgy was a bit softer, but they had the traditional action going for them. This had up sides, and downsides. The upside was the traditional for click action, but the downside was the small flat springs, the bolt, and handsprings, which were both prone to breakage.

Both tended to be rough inside, from the factory. The Ruger however, was more able to function in that condition. The softer Italian steel was prone to wear. Both would have benefit considerably from an action job, but it was a luxury on the Ruger, while it was a necessity on Italian guns.

The decision between modern, and traditional actions is a personal one. Me, I had a good set of each. I had a set of Great Western IIs, which took me to the state championship. Later, I had a set of 50th anniversary Blackhawks built into full race guns by Jimmy Spurs, the acknowledged master of Ruger tuning.

Mr. Mosin said:

Power Custom's "half cock" hammer kit.... does it basically nake the Ruger action function like the old Remington's ?

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Not quite sure what you mean by 'the old Remingtons'

If you are talking about a Remington Model 1875 or 1890, no. They have '4 click' hammers.

Working from memory right now, I don't have one of my 1858 Remingtons in hand. I seem to recall, like most Cap & Ball revolvers, they have no 'safety cock notch' in them. Meaning that the hammer only goes all the way forward, halfway back to load, and all the way back for full cock.

If I am recalling that part correctly, yes, the Power Custom Half Cock hammer does make a New Model Ruger function that way. There is no 'safety cock' notch on the hammer.

You get 'half cock, the loading position, and full cock. And of course, all the way down.






Why would one opt for this on a revolver that functions just fine without it? I put Power Custom half cock hammers in three 'original model' Vaqueros. I did not do it to hear the extra clicks, you can't hear the clicks when you are shooting with hearing protection on. The Ruger New Model (the ones with transfer bars) action has one small problem that bothered me no end. Normally, you free the cylinder to rotate by opening the loading gate. Then you can load or unload. With the 'original models' they had the annoying habit of if you rotated the cylinder just a tad too far, the hand would pop into the next ratchet tooth on the cylinder, and the chamber would not quite line up with the loading gate. Probably not a problem with 38s or 357s, but with a 45, the chamber had rotated just a teeny bit too far and you could not get a round into the chamber. It was out of line just a teeny bit. In order to load that chamber you would have to go 'all the way around' to that chamber again. That was the only way you could get a round into that chamber, and you had to be careful again not to rotate a tad too far, or you would have to do it again. After getting frustrated with this a bazillion times I ordered the Half Cock hammers for my two Stainless Vaqueros and a blued one.

With the Half Cock hammer installed, you load just like a Colt. Put the hammer on half cock, then open the loading gate and load. Even though Rugers are safe to load with six, I always only load them with five, because that is what I am used to doing with a Colt. Besides, that's what we have to do in CAS anyway. With the half cock hammer, you rotate the cylinder until a chamber lines up with the loading gate. The hand will then pop into the next ratchet tooth on the cylinder, forming a stop. If you rotate a teeny bit too far, you can back up to the stop without a problem. After I installed the Half Cock hammers I stopped cursing at my Vaqueros. But I stress, I did it for ease of loading, not to listen to clicks.

The kit is easy to install, the hardest part is taking the Ruger apart and getting it back together again. If you can do that, you can install the kit yourself. I don't shoot my Rugers much these days, but they were my Main Match revolvers for CAS for a few years, and I was always glad I had installed the kits. The New Vaqueros can have a free spin pawl in them, so the need for the Half Cock hammer has gone away. If you miss a chamber you can just back up to it.

Unless you really like hearing clicks.

By the way, if you are going to put the kits in, do yourself a favor and buy the trigger too. You can modify the original trigger to work with the Half Cock hammer, but I simply spent the extra bucks on their trigger.

One other thing. Notice the stains on the side of this hammer? Power Custom does not offer an actual Stainless hammer. (at least they did not when I bought mine a whole bunch of years ago) For their 'stainless' hammer they simply polished away the blue on the back of the hammer. It is a carbon steel hammer. That is why my Black Powder loads have stained the sides slightly.

One more thing. The Power Custom hammers are made by Wire EDM (Electrical Discharge Machine). They are actually more precisely made than the OEM Ruger Investment Cast hemmers.

Driftwood Johnson said:

With the 'original models' they had the annoying habit of if you rotated the cylinder just a tad too far, the hand would pop into the next ratchet tooth on the cylinder, and the chamber would not quite line up with the loading gate.

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I remember my Super Blackhawks did that, too. I basically had to hold the cylinder in the loading position for each chamber, as the "at rest" position was too far past to load.

Driftwood Johnson said:

After I installed the Half Cock hammers I stopped cursing at my Vaqueros.

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The other curse inducing habit of the Ruger action was that if one didn't quite make it to full cock, the hammer would slip all the way back down, without firing that chamber. To find the unfired round, one would have to click click click click click bang, all the way around. We called it doing the Ruger Go- Round. If you had a half cock hammer, though, the half cock notch would likely catch it, and save considerable cussing.