higgite
Member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2009
- Messages
- 2,080
Exactly!
My T-7 is permanently set up with dies for making .223 and .308 “target” rounds.
Plinking fodder is done with an RCBS Pro 2000.
Turret presses ???
- Thread starter jski
- Start date
- Status
My T-7 is permanently set up with dies for making .223 and .308 “target” rounds.
Plinking fodder is done with an RCBS Pro 2000.
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,872
I bought a T7 after years of hearing legend of its superiority for precision loading over the LCT’s I had set up on my bench. I was absolutely underwhelmed, and worse, I was grossly disappointed in the head tilt under load. I bushed the axle and shimmed the rear support (to the point of inducing interference drag when turning the head), and still didn’t find the magic. It does indeed hold more dies so a guy can run more cartridges in the head than the LCT, and it’s slightly faster than swapping dies in a Co-ax, but it’s just a press. What run-out it does have presents as tilt, rather than float, and it just makes me itch. No difference in the ammo or results on target for any of them - but it makes me itch. Spending 3x for the press to get no difference from the LCT, or paying the same as a Co-ax to have more deflection. So I still have a couple LCT’s set up on my bench, and still have a couple Co-ax’s, but my T7’s in a tub on the shelf in my garage.
It’s a press, it’s not magic. I don’t recommend against it by any means, but go into it with eyes wide open.
It’s a press, it’s not magic. I don’t recommend against it by any means, but go into it with eyes wide open.
Awhile back I bought a set of Dillon .30 Carbine dies. Worst set of dies ever!
The resizing die left my brass with a belt at the bottom. I called and they sent a new set of dies but with the same problem yet again ... but less extreme. I sent those back and got my money back.
BTW, I sent their quality engineer 3 examples of the belted brass. Afterwards, the aforementioned quality engineer kept asking (via email) if I’d send him some unused .30 Carbine brass so he could try to duplicate the problem with those.
You’d think Dillon could afford to buy their own.
The resizing die left my brass with a belt at the bottom. I called and they sent a new set of dies but with the same problem yet again ... but less extreme. I sent those back and got my money back.
BTW, I sent their quality engineer 3 examples of the belted brass. Afterwards, the aforementioned quality engineer kept asking (via email) if I’d send him some unused .30 Carbine brass so he could try to duplicate the problem with those.
You’d think Dillon could afford to buy their own.
whughett
Member
LOL. Wish I had seen this before trying to sell you on the Dillon. You know how long it takes to type this stuff out with one finger. 
I do not like to see a Lee fan shop where I shop. But there is nothing that can go wrong with a die, shell hold and press that I can not trouble shoot, repair or diagnose.
A few years ago I decided I would help a friend with his case primer, seems he did not like the dents in the primer. I offered to loan him my shell holders and hand primers; my system was identical to his system. I explained him the problem was not with the shell holder of hand primer. Of course that did not work and RCBS would not give up on their effort to please him. Nothing helped, nothing improved. . I decided to call RCBS, they sent me a new shell holder. And I told them the problem was not the shell holder.
F. Guffey
There are two types of turret presses; manual, and the auto indexing Lee Turret. The manual presses started back in the 1930’s, and yes they WERE indeed designed to be used as a semi progressive. And progressive presses were around in the ‘30s as well.
Since most owners of Turret presses learned on a single stage they just transferred their loading methods of batch loading to the turret press. And thus saw the only benefit of the turret head as a die holder with no need for adjustment.
Using a manual Turret as a semi progressive is faster than batch loading averaging 150-200 rounds per hour. If I am in a zone I can easily do 250 and even more if I want to get crazy. But 250 is max speed for me to be safe, though I prefer to slow it down to around 200. If I’m short on time or need mass quantities I can go to my Dillon 550s or 1050s.
I own a lot of turrets including older Lymans (3 different designs), Herters, Texans, and Hollywoods.
Early Hollywood 3 position turrets on left and right. ^^^
12 position Hollywood Turret Tool in rear
12 position ^^^
Hollwood model 3, aka model B Deluxe
Texan 7 holers ^^^
Hollywood Senior Turrets ^^^
8 holers
Hollywood Super Turret^^^
12 holer
Of those mentioned the Op can not go wrong with the Lyman or Redding. The RCBS is known to have a good amount of head flex. The advantages of the Lyman over the Redding is the extra station and a significant lower cost. The advantages of the Redding would be reputation and a better priming system as reported by owners of both.
I prefer the older stand up Turrets that don’t interfere with drawers or underneath bench access or smash the knees. Hollywoods are my favorite.
Attachments
Last edited:
DazedandConfuzed
Member
Another T-7 user here...love it!
- Did you do all of us a favor and communicate with Redding?
- Did you explain your problems to them?
- If so, what was their response.
TTv2
Member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2016
- Messages
- 4,986
I by no means have any experience with any turret press other than the Lee. When I was much younger (about 3 years ago) I use to hate the manual turret presses, I saw no value in them having more holes, costing more, and giving less output vs the Lee. Time and experience changed my opinion on them, but the one that I see no value in paying for is the Redding and the RCBS looks like a cluster. The Lyman does the same thing the Redding does... for $150 less.
$150 is a lot of brand new brass or 5000 primers.
As someone else said, you could have all the stations filled with with seating dies and never have to adjust them again for your preferred handloads. Heck, if you're a high mix reloader you might need more than one head full of seating dies and if so, that's another reason I do not like the Redding because a new head will cost you $90 while the Lyman is around $50.
I'm not at the point now, but in the future I could see myself owning a Lyman turret press. With the Lee APP press being able to crank out sized and mouth flared brass and maybe even crimping operations lickety split, all that leaves is seating.
$150 is a lot of brand new brass or 5000 primers.
As someone else said, you could have all the stations filled with with seating dies and never have to adjust them again for your preferred handloads. Heck, if you're a high mix reloader you might need more than one head full of seating dies and if so, that's another reason I do not like the Redding because a new head will cost you $90 while the Lyman is around $50.
I'm not at the point now, but in the future I could see myself owning a Lyman turret press. With the Lee APP press being able to crank out sized and mouth flared brass and maybe even crimping operations lickety split, all that leaves is seating.
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,872
Yes, I contacted Redding, and as I mentioned, I did the common tricks they and others which came before me have used to correct the issue.
It does appear, however, based on the comments made in this thread by others, the Lyman AA8 also suffers a bit from the same inherent design issue. They’re both a center support axle design which has to index over the top of a rear support column - to be supported by the column, they HAVE to start to tilt, else they don’t make contact. Using properly sized bushings for each head and shimming the rear support does help, but it’s still tilt, not float. Floating the dies does help (only time I’ve found the old style Lee lock rings to be useful), but it’s asking your die to act in a way it wasn’t intended to make up for a particular issue (read weakness) in the design of the press. It’s not so dissimilar to the shell plate tilt guys see in the Hornady LNL-AP when they’re first starting or finishing up, such there aren’t cases in every position. Nature of the beast, or rather, the design.
THR thread on T7 head tilt and bushing job
Accurateshooter thread on T7 tilt
As I said above, I don’t recommend against the press, but don’t let yourself be fooled by legends of superiority without understanding, under the green paint, it’s still simply a machine, and any machine will have inherent design characteristics - and in this case, head tilt is an inherent design characteristic.
This must also be the case with Dillon presses?
They too have a “center support axle design“.
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,872
Don’t be daft enough to assume I am as well.
All presses flex. Some flex in different areas than others, some more than others. The Dillon has a huge ram and a small diameter shell platform, for that reason - minimizing flex.
Accurate Shooter thread re: Dillon 650 flex
A product which ONLY exists to eliminate they shell platform flex when sizing on a Dillon
Jesse Heywood
Member
I have the RCBS turret. Bought it during one of the Obama panics, part of my problems I attribute to getting pushed through due to the demand. But there are many design issues that I am still working around. I was not pleased. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/turret-press-choice.533212/page-2#post-6622291
Whiterook808
Member
Which Dillon would that be? No center axle on my 550 since the toolhead slides in. I am sure there is flex in all aluminum presses though.
Not sure if all do? The RCBS Rock Shucker single stage press doesn’t “flex”? If you examine it’s design, there’s no way it could.
higgite
Member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2009
- Messages
- 2,080
"center axle" a.k.a. "ram" a.k.a. the shaft that pushes the shell plate up when you lower the handle
I do not like to see a Lee fan shop where I shop. But there is nothing that can go wrong with a die, shell hold and press that I can not trouble shoot, repair or diagnose.
A few years ago I decided I would help a friend with his case primer, seems he did not like the dents in the primer. I offered to loan him my shell holders and hand primers; my system was identical to his system. I explained him the problem was not with the shell holder of hand primer. Of course that did not work and RCBS would not give up on their effort to please him. Nothing helped, nothing improved. . I decided to call RCBS, they sent me a new shell holder. And I told them problem was not the shell holder.
F. Guffey
After observing and talking with br/long range shooters I went with a Redding T-7 some years ago and have been real pleased - several cartridges on three heads running A1. I've been on the phone with Redding for guidance with various products and they've consistently set me straight. Excepting user error/inability to solve, there's no reason for a persistent problem with a T-7. It's a popular press for good reason.
You guys can not measure cam over, it does not surprise me you can not measure flex. I have tension gages, my tension gages do not measure tension because my tension gages are marked in pounds. I waste my time going further but I also have deflections gages; my deflection gages measure IN thousands and in pounds. Deflections are like tensions, ,my deflection gages do not measure deflections and my tension gages do not measure tensions.
Long before the Internet presses were rated; today a reloader never wonders where it goes; that is because they do not know what 'it' is.
Think about it: I had a friend that was having trouble sizing cases in a RCBS A2 press, he got the ram up and the press in such a bind he could not lower the ram. There is no reason to explain that one because no one would understand.
I will make it simpler: I had some cases that had more resistance to sizing than my press could overcome. One remedy would be to give the die an additional 1/4 turn, that would be the same thing as lowering the die .017". And then let us pretend lowering the die 1/4 turn/.017" did not increase the presses ability to overcome the cases ability to resist sizing. .No one wonders what is going on, my presses flex when I put a load on them, I am convinced because I have measured the flex in thousandths. And then there is another gage, some call the other gage a strain gage. I can install a strain gage in one of my presses. After installing the gage I can lower and raise the ram and watch the dial indicator move back and forth.
F. Guffey
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,872
It’s quite clear from this and your last, you don’t understand that of which you speak.
All presses flex. Some more than others, and some in different areas than others.
There is no way around that. A center post supported turret by design has to have run out, or it won't be a turret. It is inherent to the design. It is a bad design and it is a logical conclusion that I reached just by seeing one the first time. I would never get near one for precision rifle reloading, because I would itch the same way.
Plenty of people have great results, showing it is the indian, not the arrow, I still won't own one and stick to my LCT circumferentially supported puck design. It doesn't make me itch.
All that being said, those old hollywood presses are something that caught my eye long ago, but those 12 holers(universal model?) are rare, and pretty pricey if one finds one for sale that is complete.
Look, the RCBS Rock Chucker design uses a square frame made of a single piece of cast iron. Even if the piston is off center (causing a torque), that frame will be incredibly resistant to any flexing. It Is a SINGLE PIECE OF CAST IRON after all.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked