New to Reloading with Newbie Question

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71GTO

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As the title says I am a newbie not only to reloading, but also to this fine forum. I purchased and read 3- different reloading books by Lee, Lyman and Hornaday and also read everything that I could on this forum as well as a few others to educate myself before I made any purchases. I ended up buying a Lee Classic Turret , Lee Classic single stage, Lee dies, Tumbler, case prep tools and gauges, etc...
I took my time and cleaned and prepped all the brass that I have shot and been saving for the past 6-months since I decided that I wanted to start reloading. I read all of the Lee documentation and watched a ton of YouTube videos on setting up the dies correctly. I am starting with .223 so I have lubricated, full resized, trimmed, chamfered, deburred and tumbled all of my .223 brass. I set up the Lee Adjustable Dead Length Bullet Seating Die using the information that I learned from the sources that I have listed above. I also set up the Lee Factory Crimp Die (1/2 turn) to put a light crimp. I am using Sierra Matchking 53 gram .224 HP bullets. I made a half dozen dummy rounds to verify an OAL of 2.250. I then checked them in my Sheridan Slotted .223 gauge and did the plunk test in my barrel. Everything looked and seemed perfect until I tried to push the finished cartridge down on my bench. I had seen and read in a few places to try this to check for bullet setback. To my amazement I was able to push the bullets of all six of my dummy rounds not only just a few thousands, but all the way into the case! It did take some effort, but just pushing down hard with my thumb was enough to do it.
Of course now I am totally bummed out because I really did take my time on every step and paid total attention to all the details to get to this point. After I had made and verified the 6- dummy rounds I thought that I was ready to tackle the next steps to make real rounds, but now I am at a total loss of what has gone wrong. Also just so you are aware, I measured and verified each case with 2- different sets of calipers and also checked the neck tension of each case using a Ballistic Tool Case Mouth and Neck Tension Tool. Each case showed between .001 and .003 of neck tension before I pressed the bullet into the case.
I am sincerely hoping that one of you fine Gentlemen or Ladies, can give me some guidance on what might be my issue and what things that I can check or do to correct it.
Thank you very much for reading this,
Tom
 
Is your expander ball set proper, it could be only sizing the neck at the case mouth and not the hole neck. Other thing could be your seated last the bullets ogive. Is all the brass the same? You could polish the expander that would give you more neck tension, or use more crimp.
 
Hello and welcome to THR. Lots of information in your 1st post. Sounds like you are off to a great start and did your homework. There is a lot more to this hand loading craft than meets the eye at first glance. I would be really helpful if you could assemble another dummy round and post some photos for us to look at.

.40
 
Test a SIZED only piece of brass in the gauge and see if it passes. If not you will need to adj your sizing die down. If you need help in locating where it's hanging up at, color the brass with a marker and see where it rubs off at. If all good now seat the bullet and check. Remember the seating die can crimp too so if you have the die body set too low it will start crimping the case. Which can buckle the shoulder area. With the 53gr SMK you should not have to crimp that if you have enough neck tension. For a simi-auto you need 0.002-0.003" interface fit as a min. I run all mine in the 0.003"-0.004" interface fit without a crimp. Crimping a match bullet is going to damage it. Again paint the round to see where it's hanging up at in the gauge.
 
I would check the sizing die. Specifically the expander ball. It may need to be honed down some.

You only checked six cases but have an, in my opinion, a wide variation of sizes, with one thousandths not being enough.
Springy, hard brass will resist sizing.

Strange, too though, that the ones with three thousandths also pushed in. That is the number I shoot for when loading.

A conundrum for certain.

As @Blue68f100 said, stop putting a crimp on them at all. Quite simply, a range AR does not need any crimped bullets. A half turn seems like a lot to me, too.

Neck tension should be sufficient, but you don’t have any neck tension. We need to find out why, then, maybe, we can return to crimping, while using a bullet with a cannelure to crimp into.

The bullet you’re using now has a cannelure, doesn’t it?



I thought that I was ready to tackle the next steps to make real rounds,

Kinda glad you waited.:) Everyone looks better with eyes.
 
As the title says I am a newbie not only to reloading, but also to this fine forum. I purchased and read 3- different reloading books by Lee, Lyman and Hornaday and also read everything that I could on this forum as well as a few others to educate myself before I made any purchases. I ended up buying a Lee Classic Turret , Lee Classic single stage, Lee dies, Tumbler, case prep tools and gauges, etc...
I took my time and cleaned and prepped all the brass that I have shot and been saving for the past 6-months since I decided that I wanted to start reloading. I read all of the Lee documentation and watched a ton of YouTube videos on setting up the dies correctly. I am starting with .223 so I have lubricated, full resized, trimmed, chamfered, deburred and tumbled all of my .223 brass. I set up the Lee Adjustable Dead Length Bullet Seating Die using the information that I learned from the sources that I have listed above. I also set up the Lee Factory Crimp Die (1/2 turn) to put a light crimp. I am using Sierra Matchking 53 gram .224 HP bullets. I made a half dozen dummy rounds to verify an OAL of 2.250. I then checked them in my Sheridan Slotted .223 gauge and did the plunk test in my barrel. Everything looked and seemed perfect until I tried to push the finished cartridge down on my bench. I had seen and read in a few places to try this to check for bullet setback. To my amazement I was able to push the bullets of all six of my dummy rounds not only just a few thousands, but all the way into the case! It did take some effort, but just pushing down hard with my thumb was enough to do it.
Of course now I am totally bummed out because I really did take my time on every step and paid total attention to all the details to get to this point. After I had made and verified the 6- dummy rounds I thought that I was ready to tackle the next steps to make real rounds, but now I am at a total loss of what has gone wrong. Also just so you are aware, I measured and verified each case with 2- different sets of calipers and also checked the neck tension of each case using a Ballistic Tool Case Mouth and Neck Tension Tool. Each case showed between .001 and .003 of neck tension before I pressed the bullet into the case.
I am sincerely hoping that one of you fine Gentlemen or Ladies, can give me some guidance on what might be my issue and what things that I can check or do to correct it.
Thank you very much for reading this,
Tom

Please use paragraphs. Large blocks of text are almost impossible for old eyes to read.
 
I agree with others. Skip the crimp for now. Compare the O.D. bullets you seated to a virgin bullet. That will tell if you swaged them. Also pull your expander from the sizing die, inspect and polish if need be.

Welcome to THR, and the addictive world of reloading. :)
 
Gentlemen, Thank you very much for all of your replies and I sincerely appreciate your help and suggestions. I am going to start from scratch by pulling the decapping/resizing pin from the Lee FL sizing die and inspecting it. Does anyone know what the expander part of the pin should mic at?
Thanks again
 
Expander ball would likely be about .003 less than bullet diameter. You can measure the outside of your case neck after sizing and then again after seating the bullet to determine the neck tension.
 
Expander ball would likely be about .003 less than bullet diameter. You can measure the outside of your case neck after sizing and then again after seating the bullet to determine the neck tension.
Thank you and yes I do measure the neck before and after pressing the bullet as well as using the neck tension gauge that I have, but was just curious as to what the expander ball measurement should be since I have removed it to inspect and measure.
 
One other question I wanted to ask because I have found so many conflicting answers in both manuals and videos, is it best to resize and then trim or to trim and then resize? Can you please provide an explanation (or personal experience) as to which sequence is best? Thanks again, Tom
 
One other question I wanted to ask because I have found so many conflicting answers in both manuals and videos, is it best to resize and then trim or to trim and then resize? Can you please provide an explanation (or personal experience) as to which sequence is best? Thanks again, Tom

Resize then trim. When the case is resized it gets pushed up as the diameter is forced into it's correct size. The case "grows" longer as a result.

.40
 
Resize then trim. You want the case length to be accurate when it goes into the chamber, too long and you can quickly get in a high pressure situation so I trim as late in the process as possible. I you are loading on a progressive this may not be possible so you would need to verify the case length is acceptable with a case gauge. I do load .223 on a progressive but I deprime then clean, size, trim, then run them through the press to prime, drop powder and seat the bullet.
 
I would check the sizing die. Specifically the expander ball. It may need to be honed down some.

You only checked six cases but have an, in my opinion, a wide variation of sizes, with one thousandths not being enough.
Springy, hard brass will resist sizing.

Strange, too though, that the ones with three thousandths also pushed in. That is the number I shoot for when loading.

A conundrum for certain.

As @Blue68f100 said, stop putting a crimp on them at all. Quite simply, a range AR does not need any crimped bullets. A half turn seems like a lot to me, too.

Neck tension should be sufficient, but you don’t have any neck tension. We need to find out why, then, maybe, we can return to crimping, while using a bullet with a cannelure to crimp into.

The bullet you’re using now has a cannelure, doesn’t it?





Kinda glad you waited.:) Everyone looks better with eyes.


Demi-human,
No sir the Sierra Matchking 53gr HP bullet I'm using does not have a cannelure. I resized some cases again after re-setting the Lee FL sizing die and pressed the bullets to a COAL of 2.256". I chose this overall length because I wanted to make sure that I wasn't seating them too far, while still fitting my magazines and passing the gauge and plunk tests.
I did not crimp them at all this time as you, and others have suggested. Unfortunately even though it took more pressure with my thumb this time, I was still able to push the bullets back into each of the 6- cases! One of these 6- cases had a neck tension of 4 1/2 thousands (.0045").

Just for ****s and giggles (and my own sanity) I took some brand new factory Winchester .223 55gr FMJ cartridges and attempted to set them back using just my thumb pressure. These rounds had a COAL of 2.196" and I was able to push them back to 1.650" and probably could have moved them more had I kept pushing. Plus these factory FMJ rounds do indeed have a cannelure.
Now I am completely confused and bewildered! As I said in my original post, I have read and heard different people say to do this "thumb push test" on the bench, but I'm wondering if I'm either misunderstanding what I'm reading (and hearing) or if I have the thumbs of Superman because it makes no sense that I am the only one complaining of this problem, especially with the brand new factory rounds!!!

Thanks again for all of your assistance
 
Please use paragraphs. Large blocks of text are almost impossible for old eyes to read.

Texas10mm,

I'm sorry about that because my eye sight isn't what it used to be either. I'll start using paragraphs as suggested.
Thank you, Tom
 
Here's a suggestion. Load up several dummy rounds. Measure OAL, write with a sharpie the length on each cartridge. Load them up in a magazine, I'm assuming you're loading for an AR, let the buffer spring/bcg chamber the rounds. Remeasure, repeat if necessary.
 
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