US. Krag

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TheFlynn01

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Hello everyone!

A while ago I had a thread up about a few milsurps I was trying to choose between, a Swiss k31 and a M1903. After searching and looking at everything I actually ended up going with a Krag rifle. So far it has been pretty awesome to have! The gun needs some TLC for sure, there is alot of gunk and grime on the stock and I have been trying to clean it off with some lacquer thinner. Doing so relieved its makers marks! So now that i have this beautiful bit of history, I would love to hear all about it, things to look for and to be careful of, as well as care and reloading information!

Thank you!

Mike.

P.S. I would also like to know how to upload photos to share.
 
On a cell phone.
After you reply before you post, Press the upload a file button next to the post reply button. Select the appropriate option. After it loads in. Press post reply. As all my photos are on my cell phone it’s the method I use.
Don’t know if a computer or tablet is different. I’m sure someone else will carry it forward from here.
 
I was given my great uncle's Krag back in '68. Spent many hours scrubbing and finally lapping the bore. Bought 200 new WW cases and started loading at 30-30 level, working up to about 95% of the book starting load with 170 grain bullets. Original load was 220 grain round nose which my uncle said he killed many deer and elk for the lumber camp where he was the cook, after WWI. As there is virtually nothing live I can hunt with it save coyote and woodchuck I mainly shoot cast bullets.
Great guns. Have fun. BTW, I magnafluxed my bolt before starting the renovation.
 
50 years ago I killed my 1st deer with one. The rifle was taller than me but at the time it was one of the few rifles my dad had. I wish I could turn the clock back, those were great years hunting with my dad in northern Michigan. He just passed in February at 88. Of all the guns my brother, sisters and I inherited, this one was at the top of my list. My dad actually had us all get together and divide them up about a month prior to his passing. I think it pleased him to know that we all cherished some of his most prized possessions:) 59550081-344C-480E-B03C-EBFE366E96C3.jpeg 00C24AF6-28B9-4B12-ADF7-77862A61BF8B.jpeg 7C1F95D5-658D-40FD-8662-E04FE5B7AEC2.jpeg
 
So here I attached a bunch of images of the rifle. Thanks for the info on how to do it!

it’s a beautiful gun no cracks or anything that I have found. Besides a small hairline crack on the wrist from behind the reciver
 

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50 years ago I killed my 1st deer with one. The rifle was taller than me but at the time it was one of the few rifles my dad had. I wish I could turn the clock back, those were great years hunting with my dad in northern Michigan. He just passed in February at 88. Of all the guns my brother, sisters and I inherited, this one was at the top of my list. My dad actually had us all get together and divide them up about a month prior to his passing. I think it pleased him to know that we all cherished some of his most prized possessions:)View attachment 905589View attachment 905590View attachment 905591

you got a beautiful rifle there! Your bolt looks much cleaner than mine. I think someone blued mine as it is covered in all these little smooth dark spots that look like worn off bluing. From what I have read they were supposed to be polished. Right?

Also does anyone know what the 152 on the butt would be about?
 
One of the smoothest bolt actions you’ll ever use! Ive always wanted to have the Norwegian version in 6.5x55, but I’ve never seen one in person. Denmark also used this platform in their military, chambered in some odd 8mm rimmed cartridge I think.

Always wanted one of the Norwegian 6.5 Krags, never could find one. They came in the 1960's and only a small lot. All gone after that.

US Krags were all made in the 1890's and the steels of the era are inferior to the same composition of steel today. But no one would use those Class C steels for firearms today, they would use alloy steels. I recommend just keeping to the original low pressure loads found in the manuals. The 30-40 Krag shot a 220 grain bullet at 2200 fps, and that long bullet had a great reputation as a game bullet. It would expand reliably, and penetrate deeply.

There were Ruger #1's in 30-40 Krag and those modern rifles can be operated at the same pressures as any modern action, that is 60,000 psia. But when you are talking about 1890's metallurgy, I think the Krag was a 43,000 psia cartridge, and that is all the rifle will hold.
 
Nice rifles, but limited in military use. The round itself is limited by the single locking lug receiver system. However one must bear in mind the M1892 was to replace the Springfield "Trapdoor". Since the 'old' rifle was a single shot and had a trajectory not unlike an artillery gun, the 'new' rifle was rather impressive. This is also why the .30 Army (.30-40 Krag) cartridge featured a long, heavy bullet and the velocity was around 2000 fps. On the positive side, the heavy bullet, slow velocity Krag round is very effective on both game and enemies of the Republic. Consider also the typical range for game or enemies of the Republic is not all that distant.

The velocity may not seem like all that and a bag of chips, but the rifle it replaced had the astounding velocity of around 1400-1500 fps. So 2,000 fps is somewhere between 25 and 33% faster. Viewed from that angle, it's a screamer.

Possibly what killed it off as a Military rifle was the rather slow reloading (comparatively) of the rifle and the mechanical limitations of the cartridge design. Loading the magazine is rather simple for a casual range shooter or hunter, but in combat is very slow and rather clumsy compared to the Mauser 'stripper clip' concept.

One of the other things to know is every time the Krag had more than a single update, it was issued with a new model number. Which is why there are 1892 Krags, 1896s, 1898s and 1899s. Rifles and carbines. Under current thinking they would be A2, A3 and so on.

A Krag will probably not compete well against a modern 6.5 Gredel in long range competition. But it was never so intended. Shooting moose, the Krag wins hands down.
 
The 30-40 is a fine cartridge even at the 40,000 is loads.

I know a guys with more then a dozen Norwegian krags, only wish I had the money to try to buy one he's getting up there in age. I have shot a few of them years ago with him, they were good fun but you see why they changed the magazine.
 
I believe Hatcher in his notebook tested the krag, he cut the lug off and fired a test round. I believe the bolt moved back a 1/2" before stopping, better then I would have though .
 
you got a beautiful rifle there! Your bolt looks much cleaner than mine. I think someone blued mine as it is covered in all these little smooth dark spots that look like worn off bluing. From what I have read they were supposed to be polished. Right?

Also does anyone know what the 152 on the butt would be about?

Welcome to the THR,

You have an apparently nicely kept original Springfield that are quite uncommon these days in its original as issued condition. The number on the butt was probably put there by a unit, whether Regular or National Guard and is known as a rack number for inventory purposes.

The original finish of U.S. Krags was done as rust bluing at Springfield Armory. However, you don't have any pitting apparently despite most of the finish being gone so it actually looks quite nice, don't try to improve the polishing though as it generally smears the markings on the receiver.

Be really careful about removing the rear handguard to dismount the action. You have to lift the rear sight to full mast, gently pry the front and rear prongs off the barrel of the rear sight, and then maneuver the handguard's opening around the raised rear sight to remove it. These handguards are thin, brittle, and can break easily and there is no replacements outside of paying $100 for a replica and then having the match the finish.

All in all, be careful firing it as the wood is over one century old and brittle if not kept oiled up with linseed oil or some other natural wood oil. Petroleum based oils are a no-no for old stocks like this. High pressure loads are also not a wise idea as @Slamfire says. The Army tried to upgrade the old .30 Government round and had to backtrack after cracking a fair amount of bolts from the higher pressure round. The design is safe enough but not one to load up as it was produced when smokeless powder was just getting started so keep the pressures low.

A lot of folks also like to put varnish on them which often darkened and crazed over the years which prevented the wood from being reoiled. This may be what obscured any stock markings. Using lacquer thinner you would have probably removed any such crud.

The crack in the wrist also needs to be fixed before firing--it won't get better with firing and recently if you look up @GunnyUSMC, he has a recent thread in the gunsmithing area about how to fix this specific rifle stock in the last month or so. The stocks on these are fragile and even reproduction stocks for the Krag are pretty hard to come by. A stock alone for a long rifle with the handguard goes for about $300-350 on gunbroker or ebay so take care of it.

My recommendation is reload it with a cast lead flat based bullet which will keep your load pressures down, do pretty well in your Krag's bore, and might make up for the wandering bore sizes these rifles are known for. You can get the brass from Grafs and Sons usually and there are a couple of places that you can buy cast bullets from such as https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/308-lyman-311299-200gr-sil-gc/ and they allow you to select the bullet width to fit oversized bores (if really oversized, then .311 or larger bullets can be found that work also for the British .303).

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCB30-40Krag.htm
Old reloading thread about Krags.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/favorite-30-40-krag-load.523841/

One thing to remember though, is not all Krags will feed spirepoint bullets from the magazine, some will and some won't and the receiver is not conducive to grinding the feed ramp etc. to make it work.

Get Joe Poyer's Northcape Krag book as it is affordable and will teach you about the rifle.
https://www.amazon.com/American-Kra...ions+kreg&qid=1586050017&s=books&sr=1-1-fkmr0

There is also a Krag Collectors Forum that you might want to read up on.
http://www.kragcollectorsassociation.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl

Let me know if you have some questions, Krags are fascinating rifles and I have a couple of them.
 
Troy: I have always heard about the "weak bolt" of the Krags and also the same was said of the Remington 788. I am at a complete loss to understand these criticisms as the bolt handle also locks into a notch so I cannot understand how the bolt could move rearward without doing severe damage to both the stock and the rear tang. Do you have any information to support the rumors?
 
Troy: I have always heard about the "weak bolt" of the Krags and also the same was said of the Remington 788. I am at a complete loss to understand these criticisms as the bolt handle also locks into a notch so I cannot understand how the bolt could move rearward without doing severe damage to both the stock and the rear tang. Do you have any information to support the rumors?
Hatchers notebook has a bunch of info, I think I can find a pdf but only the hole book and not the krag parts. I believe Ackley and Whelan did some tests to.
 
I just went out to my gun room and examined my Krag. Not only is the bolt locked into the back of the receiver and stock there is a small protrusion at the back of the bolt that locks into the rear arch of the receiver, I do not doubt that the steel used was inferior to more modern designs but as a Tool and Die Maker I naturally question statements that are unquestionably accepted as gospel truth. Has anyone here ever had a Krag bolt fail or blow up in there face?
 
Hello everyone!

A while ago I had a thread up about a few milsurps I was trying to choose between, a Swiss k31 and a M1903. After searching and looking at everything I actually ended up going with a Krag rifle. So far it has been pretty awesome to have! The gun needs some TLC for sure, there is alot of gunk and grime on the stock and I have been trying to clean it off with some lacquer thinner. Doing so relieved its makers marks! So now that i have this beautiful bit of history, I would love to hear all about it, things to look for and to be careful of, as well as care and reloading information!

Thank you!

Mike.

P.S. I would also like to know how to upload photos to share.
Welcome to the forum. You have a very nice rifle, but you will need to address the cracks in the stock, no matter how minor they are, before shooting. If not they will only get worse.
Read through this topic and it will cover the repairs I made to the stock.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/how-would-you-fix-these-cracks-krag-1898-stock.863740/
 
I just went out to my gun room and examined my Krag. Not only is the bolt locked into the back of the receiver and stock there is a small protrusion at the back of the bolt that locks into the rear arch of the receiver, I do not doubt that the steel used was inferior to more modern designs but as a Tool and Die Maker I naturally question statements that are unquestionably accepted as gospel truth. Has anyone here ever had a Krag bolt fail or blow up in there face?
Thing is if the receiver rings fail the safety lugs can't work. There are plenty of Iran's online blown up.here's some tests from Ackley
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3IJumUb66GNq8l1b3u_yrV
 
Danish 8mm and Norwegian 6.5mm Krags had the rear lug in contact with the receiver bridge, unlike the US Krag where it is a "safety lug," not touching unless the front lug is upset or cracked. Carried over to the '03, sort of.

There were a few beefed up Trapdoors made to experiment with the newfangled .30 cal smokeless.
 
Welcome to the THR,

You have an apparently nicely kept original Springfield that are quite uncommon these days in its original as issued condition. The number on the butt was probably put there by a unit, whether Regular or National Guard and is known as a rack number for inventory purposes.

The original finish of U.S. Krags was done as rust bluing at Springfield Armory. However, you don't have any pitting apparently despite most of the finish being gone so it actually looks quite nice, don't try to improve the polishing though as it generally smears the markings on the receiver.

Be really careful about removing the rear handguard to dismount the action. You have to lift the rear sight to full mast, gently pry the front and rear prongs off the barrel of the rear sight, and then maneuver the handguard's opening around the raised rear sight to remove it. These handguards are thin, brittle, and can break easily and there is no replacements outside of paying $100 for a replica and then having the match the finish.

All in all, be careful firing it as the wood is over one century old and brittle if not kept oiled up with linseed oil or some other natural wood oil. Petroleum based oils are a no-no for old stocks like this. High pressure loads are also not a wise idea as Slamfire says. The Army tried to upgrade the old .30 Government round and had to backtrack after cracking a fair amount of bolts from the higher pressure round. The design is safe enough but not one to load up as it was produced when smokeless powder was just getting started so keep the pressures low.

A lot of folks also like to put varnish on them which often darkened and crazed over the years which prevented the wood from being reoiled. This may be what obscured any stock markings. Using lacquer thinner you would have probably removed any such crud.

The crack in the wrist also needs to be fixed before firing--it won't get better with firing and recently if you look up GunnyUSMC, he has a recent thread in the gunsmithing area about how to fix this specific rifle stock in the last month or so. The stocks on these are fragile and even reproduction stocks for the Krag are pretty hard to come by. A stock alone for a long rifle with the handguard goes for about $300-350 on gunbroker or ebay so take care of it.

My recommendation is reload it with a cast lead flat based bullet which will keep your load pressures down, do pretty well in your Krag's bore, and might make up for the wandering bore sizes these rifles are known for. You can get the brass from Grafs and Sons usually and there are a couple of places that you can buy cast bullets from such as https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/308-lyman-311299-200gr-sil-gc/ and they allow you to select the bullet width to fit oversized bores (if really oversized, then .311 or larger bullets can be found that work also for the British .303).

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCB30-40Krag.htm
Old reloading thread about Krags.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/favorite-30-40-krag-load.523841/

One thing to remember though, is not all Krags will feed spirepoint bullets from the magazine, some will and some won't and the receiver is not conducive to grinding the feed ramp etc. to make it work.

Get Joe Poyer's Northcape Krag book as it is affordable and will teach you about the rifle.
https://www.amazon.com/American-Kra...ions+kreg&qid=1586050017&s=books&sr=1-1-fkmr0

There is also a Krag Collectors Forum that you might want to read up on.
http://www.kragcollectorsassociation.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl

Let me know if you have some questions, Krags are fascinating rifles and I have a couple of them.


Thank you for all the info! I ordered the book right now. I got her apart and cleaning the stock. I heard that wax is good to put on after the boiled linseed oil, to keep the gun oil from going back in? And the reloading info is awesome. I am super excited to get into and fix it up. I would like to restore it if I can, rust blue it to keep it from getting any further along.


Welcome to the forum. You have a very nice rifle, but you will need to address the cracks in the stock, no matter how minor they are, before shooting. If not they will only get worse.
Read through this topic and it will cover the repairs I made to the stock.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/how-would-you-fix-these-cracks-krag-1898-stock.863740/

thank you! I will read up on this and the the stock fixed. I am also going to clean it up more with lacquer thinner. When I did I can the guns markings showing up! It’s amazing to clean it and see those hidden pieces of history!
 
Huh looking over my stock. I have no band spring... is that normal? It’s just a metal pin. There isn’t even a hole where a spring would go.
 
Stocks that have old oil finishes tend to have a slight shiny look. I do a hard rub polish coat of BLO to do this.
A hard rub polish coat is easy. Apply a very thin coat of BLO, very thin. Then let it sit for 24 hours. This very thin coat will have soaked in but should have a slight tacky fill. You then want to rub it by hand until it is smooth.
The hard rub is to give you that kind of shin that an old oil finish has. Then let it sit for three to four days before applying a wax top coat.
 
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