Sig 225 A-1 Discontinued?

WVsig said:

The tube is the same. The baseplate is different. P225 A1 mags work in the P239 but not the other way around because the baseplate.

P225 A1
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P239

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IIRC it was one of the early complaints about the new 225 in that the spacer at the bottom, with a new mag tube and baseplate, could have left enough room to jam another round in the mag instead of "wasting space". You get the bigger gun with the same capacity.

It was not the name that caused me to pass on the 225A1, it was the different grip and then finding out that the mags were different was just too much. I have a P-6 and a 225. The action on the 225 was great from day one, but the P-6 needed work on the action and never worked with hollow points. It was a 100% reliable with ball, so I had a gunsmith polish the action and it was fine for the range. I got it from a surplus arms dealer at a good price and have not complaints about it.
It was a fine range gun and I found that COR BON Powerball 9m.m. would work fine in it if I wanted to carry it or use it as a car gun.

The problem with using the 225 name was that it was in my opinion, deceitful. Just plain and simple.
I love the 225 and P-6 for the grip shape. It fits my hand perfectly. I prefer BETETTA pistols with the VERTEC grip for the same reason. So when the offered an up-sized P-239, it was not what I wanted.

Some of you may remember a scandal at GENERAL MOTORS when it was found out that the were installing Chevrolet engines in Cadillac's and some buyers were very incensed. It is the same thing. If you are telling people your product is one thing and then selling them something else, well you just lost a lot of credibility with me and well as a lost sale.

I still like SIG products, most of them are very good, but this "shill game" they tried to play lowered my opinion of them.

Jim

Thats why i stopped buying SIG stuff. I bought the sig 556 a while ago. Then they discontinued it. and have no support for it. A 1200 dollar rifle i do not dare to shoot because if a part breaks, i can not get another one.

Then they stopped the P239, which was my favorite pistol.

I want a 10mm P220, but i am not getting one for that reason. I was a YUGE sig fan. But over the years i will not spend a dime on any of there products. At one point i had 7 classic P series. I am down to a P220 sao compact, P220 with the sig logo lasergrips and a P226

Wow, you guys holding a grudge against a gun company for its products' evolution and improvements must really be upset at Chevrolet. How could it improve on the '53 Corvette, even with the '63 Sting Ray ... or the ZR1 ... or (gasp) moving the engine with the C8?

Life is way too short to be upset at using an old name on a new product. "Deceitful?" I also don't recall any SIG company officials ever attempting to pass off the A-1 as the original; really the basic commonality was it being a single-stack 9mm pistol. And frankly, a great improvement over the original.

And I've got a lot of expensive firearms that have been out of production for many years, alas, with parts availability dry up more every year. But I still shoot 'em. And if one breaks, it breaks. It's just stuff.

Old dog, you got it all wrong. I understand companies have to change and make improved modals and such. but i have older rugers and some very old S&W revolvers. ruger and Smith and Wesson still support them. When i call sig about the 556 4 months after i bought it, they said they no longer had it under warrenty. That is what set me off.

Old Dog said:

Wow, you guys holding a grudge against a gun company for its products' evolution and improvements must really be upset at Chevrolet. How could it improve on the '53 Corvette, even with the '63 Sting Ray ... or the ZR1 ... or (gasp) moving the engine with the C8?

Life is way too short to be upset at using an old name on a new product. "Deceitful?" I also don't recall any SIG company officials ever attempting to pass off the A-1 as the original; really the basic commonality was it being a single-stack 9mm pistol. And frankly, a great improvement over the original.

And I've got a lot of expensive firearms that have been out of production for many years, alas, with parts availability dry up more every year. But I still shoot 'em. And if one breaks, it breaks. It's just stuff.

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Old Dog you are wrong on this one. Sigs marketing practices one these updated "legacy" guns was deceptive. Look at the P228 M11 A1. They even faked UID cage codes and promoted it as the US Military compact successor to the M11 but no one ever adopted it. Not a single Govt agency. Yet it still shipped commercially with one of these. They faked the entire thing.

They were marketing these to buyer who knew that the "originals" were not available and direct replacements but they were far from that. IMHO

I can see why some would see how the company marketed the M-11A1 as deceptive. This is how SIG has been advertising the pistol the past few years:
Designed to meet, and exceed, rigorous military standards, the M11-A1 Compact performs like no other 9mm available. This pistol features the black hard-coat finish on its alloy frame and SIG's Nitron finish over a stainless slide. Internal parts and controls are phosphated for extreme corrosion resistance and reduced friction while the barrel is finished in Nitron which easily passes the military's accuracy requirements, even after 20,000 rounds. This pistol also passes the military's 240-hour salt spray corrosion test. Additional features include vertical front strap serrations and SIGLITE night sights.

WVsig said:

They were marketing these to buyer who knew that the "originals" were not available and direct replacements but they were far from that.

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I see where you're coming from but don't fully agree. Most buyers of the A1 knew full well that they were not getting an "original" P-228. SIG certainly implied the A1 was the successor to the M-11, but never stated that it'd been adopted by any agency, simply that it was designed to meet and exceed military standards. A "deceptive" advertising practice? Isn't most advertising deceptive? Isn't it the consumer's responsibility to educate himself/herself?

In the end, though, all I'm saying is that I don't get the outrage. (And I still like my M-11A1, but I did take the sticker off)

Old Dog said:

I can see why some would see how the company marketed the M-11A1 as deceptive. This is how SIG has been advertising the pistol the past few years:
Designed to meet, and exceed, rigorous military standards, the M11-A1 Compact performs like no other 9mm available. This pistol features the black hard-coat finish on its alloy frame and SIG's Nitron finish over a stainless slide. Internal parts and controls are phosphated for extreme corrosion resistance and reduced friction while the barrel is finished in Nitron which easily passes the military's accuracy requirements, even after 20,000 rounds. This pistol also passes the military's 240-hour salt spray corrosion test. Additional features include vertical front strap serrations and SIGLITE night sights.

I see where you're coming from but don't fully agree. Most buyers of the A1 knew full well that they were not getting an "original" P-228. SIG certainly implied the A1 was the successor to the M-11, but never stated that it'd been adopted by any agency, simply that it was designed to meet and exceed military standards. A "deceptive" advertising practice? Isn't most advertising deceptive? Isn't it the consumer's responsibility to educate himself/herself?

In the end, though, all I'm saying is that I don't get the outrage. (And I still like my M-11A1, but I did take the sticker off)

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They faked a UID sticker. What more proof do you need?

WVsig said:

They faked a UID sticker. What more proof do you need?

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Proof of what? It's a freakin' marketing gimmick; we all know that. I still don't get the outrage ...

OLD DOG,

It is simple, they announced they were bringing out a product (they did not call it the A1 in their announcements or say it could not use the same magazines) and then did a bait and switch as far as I am concerned.
As I have said several times, the 225 has the most ergonomic grip (for me) that I have ever used. The 225A1 IS NOT. If they called it the 239A1, I would not have looked at it in the first place and have nothing to complain about. If you like the 225A1, good for you, but it is just an out and out lie to me.

By the way, as a confirmed Chevy buyer from the age of 16, I gave up on Chevy in the 1990's, when they just kept breaking down. I am now on my second TOYOTA with a KIA in between and while the second TOYOTA has not reached the 239,000 plus miles of my RAV4 before I sold it, my new one just celebrated hitting the 200,000 mile mark and is still going strong, so that is how I deal with company's trying to sell me inferior products. I switched from Chevy to TOYOTA and from COLT to other makers like BERETTA, GLOCK and SIG when COLT stopped making new guns that worked and offered nothing to compete with the above named makers, (anyone remember the AMERICAN EAGLE or COLT 2000?).
SIG has dropped a notch, in my opinion. I still like many of their guns, but better than the rest reputation that they "HAD", is gone in my opinion.

Jim

golden said:

but it is just an out and out lie to me.

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Harsh crowd here. I continue to marvel at the large number of folks on the internet who hold grudges against businesses because of past decisions their executives (many long deceased or long-ago fired or retired) have made.

I am ambivalent about the advertising.

I don’t buy a gun because the Military adopted it or because James Bond or Clint Eastwood uses it. I buy it on it’s perceived merits and it fills a need.

However, if I’m on the fence and know that a company is deceptive, I’ll probably stay away. But Old Dog makes a great point here. vvvvvvvvvvv

Old Dog said:

Harsh crowd here. I continue to marvel at the large number of folks on the internet who hold grudges against businesses because of past decisions their executives (many long deceased or long-ago fired or retired) have made.

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Chances are it was just one or two guys that made the decision and are now gone.

golden said:

It was not the name that caused me to pass on the 225A1,

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Me ether. It was the price. I would love to have one. It would fit great right in between my 239 and my 228. But not at the price they are asking. No way, Never.

Reinz said:

I am ambivalent about the advertising.

I don’t buy a gun because the Military adopted it or because James Bond or Clint Eastwood uses it. I buy it on it’s perceived merits and it fills a need.

However, if I’m on the fence and know that a company is deceptive, I’ll probably stay away. But Old Dog makes a great point here. vvvvvvvvvvv



Chances are it was just one or two guys that made the decision and are now gone.

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Cohen is still very much in control of Sig Sauer. Inc and running the Mimber marketing playbook to Sig perfection even after his plea deal.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_Sauer

https://www.nhpr.org/post/sig-sauer-ceo-avoids-jail-time-role-illegal-arms-shipment#stream/0

Check it out. Found this one in a local GS.

I have a couple of 239s, great carry guns you are unconcerned about capacity. Some are. some aren't. I really like mine. Mags have become pricey after the discontinuation, glad I had several spares before they started bringing a premium. {Not that they were cheap to begin with}

I was interested in a 225-A1 when they came on the market. Handled a couple in the LGS, never bought one, didn't want to part with the asking $ at the time, thought it was a tad high, although what ever the market will bear is ok by me. Yay capitalism! One of the shops nearby still had a NIB one as of a couple of months ago, so there is still a chance a new one can be found if so desired. {Hmm. I may go look}

I understand some people are finicky about what gun makers do or don't do as far as marketing, sales policy, design changes go. I hate the locks on S&W revolvers, although I have owned several. And Kimbers have always worked well for me, despite the sneering they garner on the interwebz. We gun enthusiasts sometimes come off as a bunch of crotchety old hens, however. lol

The Sig P225 has excellent ergonomics and feel great in the had. On the flip side it's an 8+1 which really dates it.

OP: I can not answer your question.
My Sigs are a P225 ('87), and a pair of P6 ('80 and an '01). Both P6 mainsprings were changed to have DA pulls/"stacking" exactly like a standard P228 or P229.

For German Sigs which were never abused we should not need any factory support.
My handguns need none.

Plan2Live said:

Care to share the name of the store?

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Glen's Gun Shop, Lebanon County, PA.