daniel craig
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I agree. I do think it's helpful if we're all speaking the same language when discussing a topic and that's the point in trying to make.
Why semantics on firearms terminology actually matters
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daniel craig
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2009
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I absolutely agree. I'm just wondering why a lot of the gun community seems to think it's not ok for those on the outside to make some simple mistakes but it's ok for gun people to do so. The best solution all around would be to just chill, you're right.
milemaker13
Member
Shoddy?My little pet peeve is when someone uses "caliber" when they should be using "cartridge"; and let's not even go to the pre-teen slang with things like "shotty".............
Howland937
Member
Shotty=shotgun, winny=Winchester, etc...
jamesjames
Member
No, not shoddy as in “shotty”. Shoddy as in...this is lame.
Not in the July 1940 War Department Manual for the US Rifle, Caliber 30, M1, signed by Army Chief of Staff G. C. Marshall.
It was called a clip.
if you've ever been corrected rudely, for using a common term in speech, because it is technically incorrect - you become far less likely to correct others for their use of common language. there are 2 sides to this really, if you can understand what the person is trying to communicate, the goal has been accomplished so, nothing further is needed - if you are on good terms - you might ask them if they know it is not technically correct, but tread lightly - people can and should get offended for having their speech mocked or corrected rudely. the other side of it is, when people will use technical semantics to derail or refuse to communicate and understand - seen this many times, then the conversation ends an nothing is understood, but everyone is frustrated.
in my area - the word supposably is used all the time, but it is not a word, not one that I learned growing up, but it is common. if I turned around and corrected every time that the word their trying to say is supposedly, every one of those people would be pretty annoyed since it is very common. same with saying bullets to mean cartridges. what was the one that I got railed for - oh yea, I said "dilapatated" which is common speech, but the actual dictionary word is "dilapidated" .. and we were having such a nice ride around the lake on a nice summer day until that moment, then it became hell in about 1/2 second.
in my area - the word supposably is used all the time, but it is not a word, not one that I learned growing up, but it is common. if I turned around and corrected every time that the word their trying to say is supposedly, every one of those people would be pretty annoyed since it is very common. same with saying bullets to mean cartridges. what was the one that I got railed for - oh yea, I said "dilapatated" which is common speech, but the actual dictionary word is "dilapidated" .. and we were having such a nice ride around the lake on a nice summer day until that moment, then it became hell in about 1/2 second.
bdickens
Member
Context and perspective.
Words mean things. They mean what they mean and not something else. The imprecise, lackadaisical, sloppy [mis]use of words leads to misunderstanding.
However,
Context and perspective.
To riff on someone's earlier example, "up the road" and "down the street" are perfectly fine. In context.
The difference between Cherry Blossom Street and Cherry Blossom Road could be miles. Or a gun stuck in your face at 1:00 in the morning.
When discussing technical matters, the precise use of words is extremely important. Ask an engineer some time about the difference between accuracy and precision. They are not the same thing. In casual speech, however, either word will probably sufficiently convey the intended meaning.
Spelling is important. Misspelled words can cause confusion. They can either be another word entirely or mere gibberish. There, their, they're. Certain common misspellings, the reasonable person should be able to accommodate.
Capitalization, punctuation, paragraphing and grammar are important. I believe that the higher educated and highly advanced readers actually struggle more with this. High level readers do not read word by word; they read text in chunks and use these things as landmarks and as clues to meaning.
A missing comma can mean life or death. Witness: "let's eat, Grandma" versus "let's eat Grandma." If the difference isn't immediately obvious, then you probably don't understand why it's so important.
Grammar. Grammar is a description, not a prescription. Properly understood, grammar tells us how language is used rather than a set of rules that must be followed.
I could go on, but I'm already going wayyyy off topic here and really don't want to get the thread locked.
Words mean things. They mean what they mean and not something else. The imprecise, lackadaisical, sloppy [mis]use of words leads to misunderstanding.
However,
Context and perspective.
To riff on someone's earlier example, "up the road" and "down the street" are perfectly fine. In context.
The difference between Cherry Blossom Street and Cherry Blossom Road could be miles. Or a gun stuck in your face at 1:00 in the morning.
When discussing technical matters, the precise use of words is extremely important. Ask an engineer some time about the difference between accuracy and precision. They are not the same thing. In casual speech, however, either word will probably sufficiently convey the intended meaning.
Spelling is important. Misspelled words can cause confusion. They can either be another word entirely or mere gibberish. There, their, they're. Certain common misspellings, the reasonable person should be able to accommodate.
Capitalization, punctuation, paragraphing and grammar are important. I believe that the higher educated and highly advanced readers actually struggle more with this. High level readers do not read word by word; they read text in chunks and use these things as landmarks and as clues to meaning.
A missing comma can mean life or death. Witness: "let's eat, Grandma" versus "let's eat Grandma." If the difference isn't immediately obvious, then you probably don't understand why it's so important.
Grammar. Grammar is a description, not a prescription. Properly understood, grammar tells us how language is used rather than a set of rules that must be followed.
I could go on, but I'm already going wayyyy off topic here and really don't want to get the thread locked.
cc-hangfire
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- 589
I’m with jeepnik! When I saw this thread start, I figured it’d be better than 9mm vs. .45acp. I’m checking in periodically to see how it’s stewing.
I’ve realized since elementary school that “life is hard for grammarians”! (And I lean toward the AR/OC side of the spectrum myself)
I had assumed that during the course of a "Library Science" degree there would have been some mention of paragraph breaks.
Dear Mr. 38 Special: Thanks for the attack. I thought that such low-life attacks were supposed to be beneath the dignity of this board. Just goes to prove my point about a willingness to learn, particularly when it comes to an academic topic.
entropy
Member
Odd. I do the opposite. I expect members of the 'gun community' to know the correct terms, though I am more tolerant with parts names, becuase many people who 'know guns inside and out' don't know the names of the parts inside. (And out, sometimes.) if a 'non gun person' says 'clip' I don't bite their head off, I'll try to casually slip the term magazine into the conversation. Semantics on firearms parts is very important, which is why I will correct people in gunsmithing threads.
entropy
Member
In German Leupold is pronounced LOY-pold. And the name is German.
.38 Special
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- 7,334
I apologize for having insulted you. It was meant to be light hearted, hence the smiley.
danez71
Member
FWIW, and it's not worth much, I thought of it as lighthearted and not intended to be insulting.
Ernie Bass
member
I suggest folks do not go into a gun shop and pronounce Makarov correctly. Some of the clerks will give you a look like you are stupid and quickly tell you how wrong you are.Better to just go with the flow and be wrong.
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I have found that on forums, its easy to agree and still sound like you don't. for what its worth, I very much agree with what your saying. Theres a time and a place for harsh nitpicking. Confusing H110, for H335 for in reloading for example. Or .380, for .38. The culture certainly leaves room for dangerous misunderstanding. I suppose the reason I argue against the little things is because I know the big things are very dangerous. I have also been doing this long enough (we get old quick) to know a few rapid, aggressive corrections makes people loose interest quick.
Muh_Car_Ofv is how I say it, and yea, funny looks.
cdb1
Member
I’m not sure whether you were being tongue in cheek or totally misunderstood what I said.
jamesjames
Member
It was bound to happen. Folks are taking umbrage and getting sideways over well intentioned attempts to correct or deepen our understanding of terms, language, pronunciation.
many of us come to to this forum to learn something. Some of us come to this forum for affirmation. And some come just to sound off.
Sometimes you have to relax that death grip on your own certainty to open your self to the possibility of learning something new, or useful, or (God help us) true.
many of us come to to this forum to learn something. Some of us come to this forum for affirmation. And some come just to sound off.
Sometimes you have to relax that death grip on your own certainty to open your self to the possibility of learning something new, or useful, or (God help us) true.
Howland937
Member
Entirely tongue in cheek. I was unable to find an emoji thing that reflected my intent though. I did attempt a couple others, but for some reason they wouldn't load.
cdb1
Member
Cool Beans.
entropy
Member
Da. It's pronounced maKARov. The R sould be slightly rolled.
I have replied with "On govo REET pa RUSkee? Nyet?" before. Confuses them and shuts them up quickly. I have yet to have one answer, "Da."
mokin
Member
Don't leave me hanging entropy. What does what you typed mean? I've thought Russian would be a cool language to learn. The 33 letter alphabet is a challenge in itself.
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
I have no idea, but in the CONTEXT, I would imagine, "Oh, so you're Russian? Right?".
Context is everything.
One does not need to say a single number to discuss handloading with a reloader. But one must use numbers to discuss handloading with a Gambler.
I think the practice of enforcement is actually very fairly doled out, with neither, liberals, New Bees, the unwise, nor the unwilling to comply receiving more brow beats than anyone else.
In fact, brow beatings seem to be on the rise for the populace as a whole.
What an interesting bullet I just clipped from this magazine.
It reads: Mute Man Misunderstood.
Context is everything.
One does not need to say a single number to discuss handloading with a reloader. But one must use numbers to discuss handloading with a Gambler.
I think the practice of enforcement is actually very fairly doled out, with neither, liberals, New Bees, the unwise, nor the unwilling to comply receiving more brow beats than anyone else.
In fact, brow beatings seem to be on the rise for the populace as a whole.
What an interesting bullet I just clipped from this magazine.
It reads: Mute Man Misunderstood.
Ernie Bass
member
I have no idea, but in the CONTEXT, I would imagine, "Oh, so you're Russian? Right?".
Context is everything.
One does not need to say a single number to discuss handloading with a reloader. But one must use numbers to discuss handloading with a Gambler.
I think the practice of enforcement is actually very fairly doled out, with neither, liberals, New Bees, the unwise, nor the unwilling to comply receiving more brow beats than anyone else.
In fact, brow beatings seem to be on the rise for the populace as a whole.
What an interesting bullet I just clipped from this magazine.
It reads: Mute Man Misunderstood.
I agree there is a time when it is important, but there are brow beating bully's that take it too far. That said, there is a link that I use frequently especially for Spanish Pronunciations. Here is the correct way to say Makarov .
And below is a link to google Translate
For need of a translation simply copy the sentence and go to translate.
https://translate.google.com/
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