Grumpy old man...

Stew0576 said:

When I started reloading I felt lost and overwhelmed with options, it was the nice people here that helped me wade through this hobby without hurting myself, my firearms and my wallet, ask away I will help if I can

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Especially if you're "teaching yourself" (i.e. no mentor to watch over your shoulder and tell you what to do), it's nice to have input from those who are more experienced. What a powerful resource we have in forums like this; those who are willing can pass a lifetime of lessons onto us and allow us to learn from their experiments.

Imagine what the world would be like if everyone who had experience was too proud to help the little guy get his start... Not that it's his responsibility or our entitlement, but those who are willing to take the time to pay it forward are invaluable to the hobby and life in general I think.

I purchased my first reloading item around July of 2015 and the first place I came to for help was this forum right here. I know some members probably got annoyed with me asking a ton of questions and some would tell me use the search function, but not one person was a grouch to me about it. Heck, Reload Ron could write a book with all the PM I sent him. I did try and use the search function but unless you wanna spend 3hrs searching 5 page threads hoping to find your answer its easier to just ask it. I come here daily and look at every sub forum incase something catches my eye and I wanna see what's being talked about. My workday can go from mild to wild and when I get a free 45min I check here and Facebook and enjoy seeing what's going on in everyone's firearm/reloading lives. If people didn't ask questions then every time I log on it would be the same questions for weeks and then I wouldn't come here anymore because its the same ole crap! I used to be on like 9 forums and haven't been on 7 of them for years because its either people complaining about people posting or no traffic because people got tired of the complaining and left.

As far as powder questions go. I don't have expendable income and it took me about 2yrs to acquire everything I needed to efficiently reload ammunition. I can look at a book all I want, but having tried 4 different powders listed in my book for 223rem only one of them shot worth a darn and I could have saved a lot of money and just went with one powder. Not many have time nor extra income to buy every handgun powder and bullet to test, so they ask people all over the country/world who have thousands of years of combined experience what they used to save some cash and time. You say you have 50yrs experience and 50yrs of manuals. I have two because I don't hoard stuff just to say I have it. I trust 99% of the members in the reloading forum to ask a question and except it as good.

Olon said:

Especially if you're "teaching yourself" (i.e. no mentor to watch over your shoulder and tell you what to do), it's nice to have input from those who are more experienced. What a powerful resource we have in forums like this; those who are willing can pass a lifetime of lessons onto us and allow us to learn from their experiments.

Imagine what the world would be like if everyone who had experience was too proud to help the little guy get his start... Not that it's his responsibility or our entitlement, but those who are willing to take the time to pay it forward are invaluable to the hobby and life in general I think.

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I find that there are many that don't want to help others and are fine with letting them struggle to solve things on their own. In some ways, I get the intent, but not with something as potentially dangerous as reloading.
Building a jigsaw puzzle, sure? Not when their is potential for harm to people or property. My conscience would keep me up all night if I took that approach. I am not saying the OP is like this, I sincerely doubt he is. Probably had too many kids on his lawn already today

You do realize.... It's a lot easier to just skip over those threads instead of typing out a page long gripe right...

CptnAwesome said:

You do realize.... It's a lot easier to just skip over those threads instead of typing out a page long gripe right...

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There is that..

Texas10mm said:

Maybe I am one, but the constant "what's a good powder", what's the "best powder" threads really rub me the wrong way.

I'm guessing that almost all of these threads are started by new reloaders. People who haven't actually read a reloading manual. They might have one manual...maybe. Most of them are younger people who feel the need for social approval.

1. There are many "good powders" for every application. I've loaded 45 ACP with over 30 different powders. Of that number at least two dozen of them were "good".
2. What is the "best" powder for one person could well be the "worst" powder for another.
3. Buy some manuals. Read them.
4. Compile a list of powders that have data for the bullet you're going to load.
5. Now go and see which of those powders are available. Buy at least three of them.
6. Load up some test loads and see which powders work best for you.

Congratulations, you've answered your question.

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So just to mix it up a little, whats the best bullit 4 my 380?

GaryL said:

The original post made me think "What would RCModel Do?". I thought he was helpful towards everyone, new reloaders and old.

I have to admit, when someone asks the question about a "good" powder for a specific caliber, I'll often give it a quick read to see if there's anything new I might pick up from it. No one has endless resources for testing, and sometimes it's the guys & gals out doing their thing that make great discoveries.

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RCModel understood what this website was built on and how it got it's name.

Jack Ryan said:

So just to mix it up a little, whats the best bullit 4 my 380?

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.308 Roundball .045 off the lands.

2" group at 1,000yds guaranteed!

buck460XVR said:

I sense a little resentment here from folks that "had to learn it on my own" and giving advice to those that ask.There is a difference between "What's everyone's opinion of the best powder for .45 ACP" and "What's the best load recipe for .45 ACP?" Just like there's a difference between "How do I set up my crimp die?" and "What am I doing wrong with my crimp?". Problem on these types of forums is, after a while, there's is no question that has not already been asked. One thing nice about these forums is, you are not required to push the reply button. You do not have to click on the thread, "what powder for .45ACP?" if you do not want to.

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Just speaking for myself here, it is NOT resentment for giving advice. It is resentment that GIVING advice is a complete waste of time on the internet. Just look at this one RANT thread and it is THREE FREAKING pages long already. If there is a GRAIN of good advice in it, no one who ever needed it could possibly sort it out from the total bull rap.

CptnAwesome said:

.308 Roundball .045 off the lands.

2" group at 1,000yds guaranteed!

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awe heck, I already bought a #4 buck mold and poured thousands of 'em. Do you think that would be just as good?

I think a lot of people asking about powder recommendations are looking for groups. And I think most people know that every gun is a little different and what works in one might not work well in another. But there’s more to a powder than how it shoots. How consistently does it meter? How clean/dirty does it burn? Is it easy to find? That’s all information I haven’t seen in a reloading manual.

Jack Ryan said:

awe heck, I already bought a #4 buck mold and poured thousands of 'em. Do you think that would be just as good?

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Dont be lazy and just ask,,, go find out. If it blows up and kills you then you have the answer...

CptnAwesome said:

Dont be lazy and just ask,,, go find out. If it blows up and kills you then you have the answer...

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I guess that depends on if the position is that the internet enables stupid or if it protects stupid from itself

Texas10mm said:

I started loading shotgun shells when I had just turned 14. My birthday present was a Lee LoadAll and a Lyman shotshell manual.

My dad made me read the manual before he would let me reload, he even tested me on what I had read. After that I was on my own.

When I started loading rifle rounds at 16 it was the same thing. Pistol at 20 I was on my own. I read the manuals and bought what I needed.

I've never had a mentor. What I did do was read.

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...which worked. Likewise, anyone could just read books instead of going to school and seeking out mentors. Are you a better thinker because you read manuals? Not necessarily. Is your understanding any better than that of somebody who enlisted the advice and teachings of someone more experienced? Not necessarily. Just because it's the way you did it, doesn't mean it's the best way.

edit: Don't take this as a personal attack; I only want to say there's several approaches to learning how to reload. While I had a later start to reloading than you did, I had a very similar methodology in the beginning. The first two pieces of equipment I bought were two reloading manuals: the Hornady 10th ed. and speer 14th. I read through the entire instructional sections in both and kept studious notes. In that way, I developed my understanding of the fundamentals. There's only so much I can give myself (and the engineers at Hornady and Speer) credit for, however.

I've found a lot of value through picking the brains of others and finding their recommendations. I'm starting to come around to learning why certain powders are better for certain applications. While I do not currently and never will have a complete understanding of everything going on under the surface, I try to come up with the answers to my questions before asking. I learn better that way when I can dig deep. It's too easy to ask and have others do it for you, and you don't actually know what you're doing. It's like asking somebody what you need to do to adjust your carb: sure, you can complete the steps they're recommending but next time will you know what to do? Probably not. But if I were to ask you what I need to do and why, after thinking on my own, it would be something different entirely.

The most valuable mentors I've had have not been reluctant to give me advice when I asked it. They would ask me other questions to get me thinking on the right track or tell me the wherefore and why.

Olon said:

...which worked. Likewise, anyone could just read books instead of going to school and seeking out mentors. Are you a better thinker because you read manuals? Not necessarily. Is your understanding any better than that of somebody who enlisted the advice and teachings of someone more experienced? Not necessarily. Just because it's the way you did it, doesn't mean it's the best way.

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Slow down turbo you're now making it personal

I think a lot of us just want to make conversation, half the stuff I post about I know pretty good, some stuff I am interested in what others like. For the powder thing, I can see for new guys they can get overwhelmed on what to use, plus like my self not all of us have the money or time to go out and buy 10 different powders then do load testing on all them.

but if one can get a more common used powder with a good starting load and bullet combo that can help a lot.

I also figure if we all did pay it forward on here to the betterment of the forum EVERYBODY WINS.
I have yet to meet somebody that never appreciated that someone was able to help them through a rough patch. Most pay it forward on a daily basis I think. Most on here are the best at the reloading craft that I personally have found anywhere on the net. Being part of the collective wisdom on here gives many a lot of a purpose in this community. Let us embrace it and carry on.

Texas10mm said:

Maybe I am one, but the constant "what's a good powder", what's the "best powder" threads really rub me the wrong way.

I'm guessing that almost all of these threads are started by new reloaders. People who haven't actually read a reloading manual. They might have one manual...maybe. Most of them are younger people who feel the need for social approval.

1. There are many "good powders" for every application. I've loaded 45 ACP with over 30 different powders. Of that number at least two dozen of them were "good".
2. What is the "best" powder for one person could well be the "worst" powder for another.
3. Buy some manuals. Read them.
4. Compile a list of powders that have data for the bullet you're going to load.
5. Now go and see which of those powders are available. Buy at least three of them.
6. Load up some test loads and see which powders work best for you.

Congratulations, you've answered your question.

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I can almost hear you yelling "Get off my lawn"
If those damn youngsters would stop asking so many questions we could get back to complaining about that damn S&W lock......

I'm kidding around - sort of

Texas10mm said:

I started loading shotgun shells when I had just turned 14. My birthday present was a Lee LoadAll and a Lyman shotshell manual.

My dad made me read the manual before he would let me reload, he even tested me on what I had read. After that I was on my own.

When I started loading rifle rounds at 16 it was the same thing. Pistol at 20 I was on my own. I read the manuals and bought what I needed.

I've never had a mentor. What I did do was read.

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And that’s why a lot of people do on here is read the answers the wonderful members here give once they ask a question.

Gunpowders are an excellent affirmation of Noam Chomsky's statement that the "purpose of advertising is to create ill informed consumers who make irrational decisions"

If they put out pressure curves, that would be a great step towards understanding the difference between powders. I think it would be interesting because I believe the actual differences between powders within a burn rate range is very slight to non existent. The biggest difference in powders is the price and the can colors, and if we saw that there was virtually no ballistic difference between the $35.00 blue can, and the $45.00 green can, we might not buy the more expensive powder.

For pistols, I can get by with three powders: Bullseye, Unique, and 2400. And if I had to get to one:Unique.

I think I could cover all my rifle calibers with IMR 4895 and IMR 4350. And if I had to get to one: IMR 4895. I don't need the powder du jour.

Slamfire said:

Gunpowders are an excellent affirmation of Noam Chomsky's statement that the "purpose of advertising is to create ill informed consumers who make irrational decisions"

If they put out pressure curves, that would be a great step towards understanding the difference between powders. I think it would be interesting because I believe the actual differences between powders within a burn rate range is very slight to non existent. The biggest difference in powders is the price and the can colors, and if we saw that there was virtually no ballistic difference between the $35.00 blue can, and the $45.00 green can, we might not buy the more expensive powder.

For pistols, I can get by with three powders: Bullseye, Unique, and 2400. And if I had to get to one:Unique.

I think I could cover all my rifle calibers with IMR 4895 and IMR 4350. And if I had to get to one: IMR 4895. I don't need the powder du jour.

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I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one from the quantity of nitroglycerin being single bass or double bass and several other factors including coatings have a huge impact on Burn rate characteristics. It's a lot more different than the color of the can. Form sphere, flake or ball is a huge factor on its own.

This is from an Grumpy Old Man ... heck I may be the Grumpy Old Man that the guy in the other thread was talking about ...
But as many new comers on THR know ... I am glad to go out of my way to help a fellow ... not just reloading ... but pretty much anything ...

What does stir up my goat dander ... is the resentment the guy in the other post gave to whoever the Grumpy Old Man was/is .... maybe I didn't see what The Grumpy Old Man said ... if it was my post ... then I sure hate to be real Grumpy to him then ... seems some come here with a chip on their shoulder just looking to jump on the first Grumpy Old Man to come by ....

Texas10mm said:

I started loading shotgun shells when I had just turned 14. My birthday present was a Lee LoadAll and a Lyman shotshell manual.

My dad made me read the manual before he would let me reload, he even tested me on what I had read. After that I was on my own.

When I started loading rifle rounds at 16 it was the same thing. Pistol at 20 I was on my own. I read the manuals and bought what I needed.

I've never had a mentor. What I did do was read.

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All I used for 10 years was the little list that came with my Loadall.

JimKirk said:

This is from an Grumpy Old Man ... heck I may be the Grumpy Old Man that the guy in the other thread was talking about ...
But as many new comers on THR know ... I am glad to go out of my way to help a fellow ... not just reloading ... but pretty much anything ...

What does stir up my goat dander ... is the resentment the guy in the other post gave to whoever the Grumpy Old Man was/is .... maybe I didn't see what The Grumpy Old Man said ... if it was my post ... then I sure hate to be real Grumpy to him then ... seems some come here with a chip on their shoulder just looking to jump on the first Grumpy Old Man to come by ....

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If you're referring to me, I admittedly revealed myself as a grumpy young man... it happens sometimes