Self defense Round

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I’m trying to picture a scenario where I’d be in a self-defense situation - using an AR or some other 5.56 rifle - where the basic ballistics of the rifle round wouldn’t be sufficient.... :thumbdown:
 
That's a barrier blind type round. Is your goal to penetrate barriers and have the round remain effective on the other side? Generally that's not desirable for home defense.
 
I live in a townhouse with thin walls in the middle of a city. I’d prefer to leave my neighbors unaffected by any altercation I might be involved in.

My choice is for light 50gr varmint bullets that fall apart as soon as the touch anything. I’m giving up barrier penetration for reduced change of over penetration and ricochet.

BSW
 
If you live in the city/suburbs I would use a shotgun. Or a pistol carbine. It's what I have. A Ruger PC9 with Glock hi cap mags. And a 590 loaded with #4 buck. Shotgun is mine carbine is my wife's.
 
If you live in the city/suburbs I would use a shotgun. Or a pistol carbine. It's what I have. A Ruger PC9 with Glock hi cap mags. And a 590 loaded with #4 buck. Shotgun is mine carbine is my wife's.

Buckshot and pistol bullets both go through more than lightly built rifle bullets. The high speed and thin jacket tear them apart on anything denser than air.

BSW
 
I'd take a paratrooper model m1 carbine with a weapon light and maybe a laser or red dot.
 
Some observations about rifles and shotguns and drywall: https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls/

Conclusions:
Lessons learned:

Contrary to what we have been told, XM-193 does not seem to “fragment” when shot into drywall walls. After we were through for the day, we even shot several more rounds of XM-193 into the walls to see if we could get one to fragment. They did not. It is clear that they were tumbling and deviating from the flight path, but they were still penetrating the walls. Now, before anyone says it, No, I do not know how much damage they would do to someone after the 4th wall. But they would do some damage as they were still penetrating.
Remington 55 grain JSP and Frangible 5.56 also penetrated all 4 walls. So did the .30 Carbine. When shooting rifles, walls are concealment, not cover.
00 Buck penetrates 4 walls with ease. It is a great “Stopping” round, but there is a price to pay. Until someone invents a “Phaser” like on Star Trek, anything that will stop a bad guy, will also penetrate several walls.
Birdshot does not excessively penetrate drywall walls. But it does not penetrate deeply enough to reach a bad guy’s vital organs. Birdshot makes a nasty but shallow wound. It is not a good Stopper. Use Birdshot for little birds. Use 00 Buckshot for bad guys.

BSW
 
If you live in the city/suburbs I would use a shotgun. Or a pistol carbine. It's what I have. A Ruger PC9 with Glock hi cap mags. And a 590 loaded with #4 buck. Shotgun is mine carbine is my wife's.

Another +1 for #4 buck. Try it sometime and see for yourself.
 
Another +1 for #4 buck. Try it sometime and see for yourself.

I like #4 buckshot too.

But, I’m responsible for every projectile that I shoot, and even a single #4 buck pellet can kill. I’m far more comfortable with a single bullet that I can aim vs a spread of shot.

BSW
 
.223 drywall penetration apparently varies quite a bit across different loads:

http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html

Winchester 55gr softpoint broke up very nicely and failed to penetrate the third wall. As one might expect, 40gr VMAX penetrated even less.

I’d be curious to see whether bullets break up faster when fired from 1:7 barrels vs. 1:9 or 1:12.
 
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.223 drywall penetration apparently varies quite a bit across different loads:

http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html

Winchester 55gr softpoint broke up very nicely and failed to penetrate the third wall. As one might expect, 40gr VMAX penetrated even less.

I’d be curious to see whether bullets break up faster when fired from 1:7 barrels vs. 1:9 or 1:12.

Thanks for the link. As it happens my house gun is loaded with the 40gr V-Max.

BSW
 
I’m trying to picture a scenario where I’d be in a self-defense situation - using an AR or some other 5.56 rifle - where the basic ballistics of the rifle round wouldn’t be sufficient.

Hostage taker is shot solidly in torso with AR15. Afterwards he kills one officer and wounds another before other officers shoot and kill him.

https://www.odmp.org/officer/6501-corporal-charles-william-hill

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...suicide/46d6e901-c1b6-4fc6-8d0f-ed2a43280fd5/
 
If, and that's a big if with the AR system, your rifle fires reliably any ammo that works is more than sufficient for home defense. High priced / high tech ammo is just a gimmick in search of a sucker. The "deadliest" bullet in the world won't work if you don't hit your target in the right spot.
 
Hostage taker is shot solidly in torso with AR15. Afterwards he kills one officer and wounds another before other officers shoot and kill him.

https://www.odmp.org/officer/6501-corporal-charles-william-hill

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...suicide/46d6e901-c1b6-4fc6-8d0f-ed2a43280fd5/

REALLY? Can't use this one as an example... He was hit in the HEART by a rifle... the dude was killed. He just took a few seconds to die because the blood in his veins still had oxygen. Same thing as a deer running 75 yards after both lungs, and heart getting blown out. Nothing could have prevented this except a CNS shot, not even the mighty shotgun. The ballistics of the rifle DID end the fight... just not quick enough. (shot placement) Can't save 'em all.
 
I keep my bullet launcher (10.3" pistol) loaded with 75gr Hornady TAP. One this stash runs out, I'll go to the IMI 77gr (MK262 clone) I started buying. This particular gun is my "panic gun" "SHTF gun" "Get home gun" whatever you want to call it. It's the one that travels with me where ever I go, and I don't care to go about swapping out mags every time I come home, or leave. I live in a small, rural farming town, decent distance between houses on either side, an IGA parking lot to the front, hill, creek, cornfield to the back... That said, I'm not one to worry about "overpenatration". Bullets are supposed to penetrate. That's how they do their job. They poke hole in things.

I do worry about where I put those bullets. I run a 50 yd zero, but if I press it into use as a home defense weapon, I'm not gonna be anywhere near 50 yds away from the bad guy. So I practice with it. I need to know my holdovers. I need to know that the dot on my Comp M4s has to go right at the top of that bad guy's head, to put one in his T-zone, if he's holding a blade to my wife's throat in out living room... because of how high it is over the bore, and how close I am to him. .

That's gonna be a given even if I forget my wanting to leave the Hornady in there. Even if I leave xm193 or M855 range ammo in the gun from earlier today... or last week... and 193 is good stuff up close, I just like the heavier stuff for out, and about in case I need to punch through something.
 
The ballistics of the rifle DID end the fight... just not quick enough. (shot placement)
No it didn't. After the offender, Jamie Martin Wise, was shot he staggered momentarily. At the time he was shot he was holding a sawed off shotgun to the head of a hostage, who he had his arm around. When Wise staggered, the hostage wiggled free and ran away. Wise then aimed his shotgun, fired and hit Cpl. Hill in the face, killing him. Wise then pumped the action of his shotgun and shot at Ofcr. Chelchowski, who had been kneeling. Chelchowski was scrambling away from Wise on all fours when he was hit. At this time several other officers opened fire at Wise and instantly incapacitated him with at least one CNS hit. Had these other officers not shot Wise he would have been able to keep going until he lost enough blood to lose consciousness. So this is indeed a situation in which the ballistics were "insufficient" to stop dangerous behavior.
 
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