For upmost accuracy .223 bolt gun

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If your cartridge neck thickness is .012 sure.






I read online that’s what would work I’ve never used a bushing die thank you for all your helpful comments

Nothing like trying to learn a new thing, and someone has to get snarky!
 
.246 should be a good place to start, it is what I have in my .223 Redding Type S FL sizer. . I am using it on brass where the neck walls measure about .0112 to .0122 (11.2 to 12.2 thousandths) using my ball type micrometer.. No one ends up with only one bushing. I have eight sizes for reloading 6MM, and am using two of them right now. I prefer the RCBS Tungsten Disulfide coated bushings. They all work though. I have Redding steel, Redding Nitride coated, Whitetail Engineering solid carbide, RCBS Tungsten Disulfide coated, Wilson steel....

If I was buying threaded .223 dies today for a target rifle I would buy the new RCBS MatchMaster set and I would use a bushing that sized the unturned necks just enough that the expander button would just barely do any work to uniform the ID. I almost bought them for 6 Creed, but went with a threaded Wilson bushing sizer and Wilson micrometer seater hand die used with an arbor press.
 

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For upmost accuracy, I get the best results with a barrel that has been made with a tight neck that requires brass be turned and I don't size the case so much a stripped bolt will fully drop on a chambered sized case alone, I have best results when the case is slightly compressed when the bolt is fully closed.

If you are not turning, bushing dies might even be a step backwards depending on what brass you are using (the same wall thickness is critical if your only procedure is on the outside of the case) vs using a die that makes the neck under then pulling or pushing an expander past after sizing.
 
I don't have any bushing dies at this time to provide you any further guidance I'm currently using mandrills for final sizing because I like the neck fully sized. There's more than one way to accomplish the same thing and I think using mandrills is easier. I don't know whether or not using bushings results in more problems with donuts or not but I suspect that they do. You've already invested in a bushing type die so you might as well do a full set of testing and see if you like that way.
 
Redding Type S full length bushing sizing die to size, mandrel expand, seat in a Wilson chamber type.

Would you consider the Wilson Chamber type seater to be an improvement over Redding Competition micrometer seater?
I'm also looking at the Whidden and Forster threaded seaters. So far only loading .223 and .308.

Thanks for any help choosing,

Russellc
 
Would you consider the Wilson Chamber type seater to be an improvement over Redding Competition micrometer seater?

I personally do, yes. It’s an adaptation for the reloader, of course, to adopt an Arbor Press for seating in their process, but well worth it, in my opinion.

The good news: unlike most “upgrade options” for various processes, arbor presses and chamber type seating dies are relatively inexpensive. The press AND dies typically cost less than the higher end “competition seating die” from most brands.
 
I personally do, yes. It’s an adaptation for the reloader, of course, to adopt an Arbor Press for seating in their process, but well worth it, in my opinion.

The good news: unlike most “upgrade options” for various processes, arbor presses and chamber type seating dies are relatively inexpensive. The press AND dies typically cost less than the higher end “competition seating die” from most brands.
I agree with everything, but you can also easily bring the arbor press and die in the car to use at the range. This works very well for testing. Seat your entire box very long and set the seating depth your testing right at the bench. A lot of competition shooters do this and more.
 
I personally do, yes. It’s an adaptation for the reloader, of course, to adopt an Arbor Press for seating in their process, but well worth it, in my opinion.

The good news: unlike most “upgrade options” for various processes, arbor presses and chamber type seating dies are relatively inexpensive. The press AND dies typically cost less than the higher end “competition seating die” from most brands.

I do not yet own an arbor press...any suggestions on one the doesn't break the bank. That said, with tools of any type I tend to go with "cry once" and get it done right mentality.

Is an Arbor press required to take advantage of these chamber type seaters?

Russellc

Thanks for any direction,

Russellc
 
I agree with everything, but you can also easily bring the arbor press and die in the car to use at the range. This works very well for testing. Seat your entire box very long and set the seating depth your testing right at the bench. A lot of competition shooters do this and more.

Great idea!

Russellc
 
I do not yet own an arbor press...any suggestions on one the doesn't break the bank. That said, with tools of any type I tend to go with "cry once" and get it done right mentality.

Is an Arbor press required to take advantage of these chamber type seaters?

Russellc

Thanks for any direction,

Russellc

There ARE expensive arbor presses with amazing force measurement add-ons like the K&M Dial Indicator Arbor press or the 21st Century Hydro press, but overall, most arbor presses are super cheap.

I suppose a guy could use a standard press to compress chamber type dies, even a bench vise if you had all of the time in the world on your hands, or a hammer if you were into that kind of self-hate... If you had a flat anvil on your ram and a flat plug in the die position, I’d suppose a standard press would be able to seat on chamber type dies, but it would be a little awkward/cumbersome, and you’d lose the dexterous feel you gain with a smaller arbor press. The Arkco/Charlie Hood press works kinda like that - a double ram with two positions, one position for a standard threaded sizing die and the second position for compressing a chamber type seating die. But I digress....

Brownells sells the inexpensive Sinclair arbor press for $110, wait out the Covid crisis until they go back to their 10% and free shipping monthly deal, and you’re in it for less than $100. Or try to find one used. My first arbor press was actually a modified clicker press (leatherworking), but I bought one of these Sinclair presses a handful of years ago - I seated thousands and thousands of rounds on one of these Sinclair presses before I eventually bought a 21st century hydroseater year before last (the K&M is cheaper, and a little more svelte in design). This simple arbor press is pretty hard to mess up, and it’s inexpensive.

https://www.brownells.com/reloading...e-presses/sinclair-arbor-press-prod37764.aspx

4595B69E-6371-45EE-B107-F496BE5D8555.jpeg
 
Oddly enough, I was just looking at some of the $150+ match die seaters. It's a financial load to get one for each cartridge.

I think this is a much better idea. Buy the Arbor Press once, then the chamber dies are much easier to pay for in each cartridge.

My sort of thinking.
 
@Hooda Thunkit - very true. The Wilson dies and micrometer heads are far less expensive than conventional, threaded, match/competition seating dies.

$55-60 for the standard Wilson seater die, plus $35-40 for the micrometer top - I buy multiple micrometer tops for seating different bullets (less expensive standard tops work just as well, I just prefer the locking style and the feel of the micro tops). No readjustment, just swap the top and seat, and they come at a lot lower cost than buying new micrometer stems for other die types.

Arbor seating and chamber type dies aren’t the ONLY game in town, but I do wish a lot more folks knew about this option. It’s really ONE of the few instances where the top level of precision 1) is as fast/faster than other standard methods, and 2) is less expensive than what most consider standard match grade equipment.
 
Arbor seating and chamber type dies aren’t the ONLY game in town


what Else is out there @Varminterror?

I was attempting to make the concession that there’s really nothing wrong with using match grade seating dies on conventional presses. I don’t want anyone to read my fervor above and infer I’d consider seating on conventional presses with match dies to be “wrong.” Certainly, exceptionally precise ammo is made in many ways and on many tools - multiple methods present even on my own bench - but I do prefer arbor press seating in chamber type dies, both for the precision potential and the low cost. It’s a rare win-win in that regard.
 
Oddly enough, I was just looking at some of the $150+ match die seaters. It's a financial load to get one for each cartridge.

I think this is a much better idea. Buy the Arbor Press once, then the chamber dies are much easier to pay for in each cartridge.

My sort of thinking.
Tell me about it! I own Redding competition Micrometer seaters in my reloading calibers which were not cheap. For my most "accurate" loads I take a lot more time and even with a turret press break it down into mostly separate steps. An arbor type press fits this agenda to a tee.

I've said it more than once and I will say it again: Reloading does NOT save money...but for the same money you can shoot more. As you delve into the rabbit hole of "accuracy" this onion gets another peeling off that thought. LOL.

Russellc
 
There ARE expensive arbor presses with amazing force measurement add-ons like the K&M Dial Indicator Arbor press or the 21st Century Hydro press, but overall, most arbor presses are super cheap.

I suppose a guy could use a standard press to compress chamber type dies, even a bench vise if you had all of the time in the world on your hands, or a hammer if you were into that kind of self-hate... If you had a flat anvil on your ram and a flat plug in the die position, I’d suppose a standard press would be able to seat on chamber type dies, but it would be a little awkward/cumbersome, and you’d lose the dexterous feel you gain with a smaller arbor press. The Arkco/Charlie Hood press works kinda like that - a double ram with two positions, one position for a standard threaded sizing die and the second position for compressing a chamber type seating die. But I digress....

Brownells sells the inexpensive Sinclair arbor press for $110, wait out the Covid crisis until they go back to their 10% and free shipping monthly deal, and you’re in it for less than $100. Or try to find one used. My first arbor press was actually a modified clicker press (leatherworking), but I bought one of these Sinclair presses a handful of years ago - I seated thousands and thousands of rounds on one of these Sinclair presses before I eventually bought a 21st century hydroseater year before last (the K&M is cheaper, and a little more svelte in design). This simple arbor press is pretty hard to mess up, and it’s inexpensive.

https://www.brownells.com/reloading...e-presses/sinclair-arbor-press-prod37764.aspx

View attachment 907998
Looking at this, I don't understand how it works. I will go to youtube and see what I can learn. Searching Brownell's for Arbor press, that is the only one that shows up!

Russellc
 
In my target .223 Rem I use Lapua Match, neck sized, 60 gr. Sierra Varminter, H332. Brass gets 12 firings (after fire forming) and then it's full-resized and sent to the semi-auto box. Take your time working up a load that produces consistent results and stick with it. Get an OAL gauge find out what the length is with your bullet, then back off .020 or so and see what you get. Consider all the variables you can play with; good luck figuring out which one will bring you that sub-MOA goodness, session after session. Have fun!
 
I was attempting to make the concession that there’s really nothing wrong with using match grade seating dies on conventional presses. I don’t want anyone to read my fervor above and infer I’d consider seating on conventional presses with match dies to be “wrong.” Certainly, exceptionally precise ammo is made in many ways and on many tools - multiple methods present even on my own bench - but I do prefer arbor press seating in chamber type dies, both for the precision potential and the low cost. It’s a rare win-win in that regard.

With or without micrometer? Preference? I'm a gadget junky so I like micrometers....

Russellc
 
With or without micrometer? Preference? I'm a gadget junky so I like micrometers....

Russellc

Pick your poison. Honestly, out of all 3 of the Wilson options, I prefer the standard dies with the micrometer tops. They have 1) standard dies, 2) micrometer tops for the standard dies, and 3) micrometer dies. The difference: the standard die is just a solid steel body with an adjustable seating stem in the top “ram,” and the corresponding micrometer top upgrade has the micrometer collar in the top ram itself. The micrometer die uses the standard top, but has a micrometer collar threaded onto the die. Admittedly, I only prefer the standard+micro top combo because of how it feels in my hand, AND typically it costs about $10 less than the micrometer die. Any of the 3 options will make ammo of the same high quality and low run out, I just like the standard + micro top the best of the 3.

I typically order my Wilson dies from Gunstop.com. They seem to have more stuff in stock than most places, and often lower prices. Seems everyone is always sold out of Wilson dies, but they tend to have what I need, when I need it. The website’s kind of clunky to browse, but it’s easy to search.
 
Pick your poison. Honestly, out of all 3 of the Wilson options, I prefer the standard dies with the micrometer tops. They have 1) standard dies, 2) micrometer tops for the standard dies, and 3) micrometer dies. The difference: the standard die is just a solid steel body with an adjustable seating stem in the top “ram,” and the corresponding micrometer top upgrade has the micrometer collar in the top ram itself. The micrometer die uses the standard top, but has a micrometer collar threaded onto the die. Admittedly, I only prefer the standard+micro top combo because of how it feels in my hand, AND typically it costs about $10 less than the micrometer die. Any of the 3 options will make ammo of the same high quality and low run out, I just like the standard + micro top the best of the 3.

I typically order my Wilson dies from Gunstop.com. They seem to have more stuff in stock than most places, and often lower prices. Seems everyone is always sold out of Wilson dies, but they tend to have what I need, when I need it. The website’s kind of clunky to browse, but it’s easy to search.
I was very interested in the micrometer tops for the Wilson dies until I found out the easy cheap way to get the same level of results is just to use a caliper or micrometer on the top section when making adjustments. It may take a few seconds longer but I don't make adjustments very often once I find my load and it's just as accurate
 
I was very interested in the micrometer tops for the Wilson dies until I found out the easy cheap way to get the same level of results is just to use a caliper or micrometer on the top section when making adjustments. It may take a few seconds longer but I don't make adjustments very often once I find my load and it's just as accurate
Okay, I'm interested.

How does this work? What do you actually measure, and where?

Would you have a picture?
 
Okay, I'm interested.

How does this work? What do you actually measure, and where?

Would you have a picture?
All you do is take a measurement from the top of the cap the bottom of the seater and when you loosen and screw the seater in or out further you can measure that difference
 

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